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CCP: What are you going to do about the storyline?

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Author
Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
#21 - 2012-05-23 19:44:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Seismic Stan
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
If you had not noticed, CCP fired most of the Devs responsible for the backstory and moved the already created stuff to an external wiki. So yes, the backstory and everything related to it is officially dead.

Having attended the relevant roundtables at Fanfest, I beg to differ. Certainly CCP Abraxus and CCP Gnauton might have something to say about that. There are also other devs who are primed to contribute to storyline and live event material, like CCP Affinity and CCP Goliath.

We just need to make sure they know it's what we want. If they can show the decision-makers and bean-counters that there is an interest and that it would add value to the game experience, it will happen.

I interviewed CCP Dropbear (now ex-CCP) and CCP Headfirst (working on DUST514?) in December and they made some good points. The playerbase needs to be clear and vocal in what it wants. This doesn't have to take the form of a mutinous and blood-hungry mob every time, but organised and focused it must be. There are a multitude of issues that are deserving of focus and certainly the CSM should be the champions of these issues. CCP has provided a system to hear what we want and we must continue to make our voices heard.

Other mechanisms are also available to us. As Dropbear pointed out in the interview, the construction of Arek'Jalaan Site One: Antiquus in the Eram system is a great example. Over 30 billion ISK in materials was provided by players to construct what is essentially "roleplaying fluff". This proves that there is a strong interest in the more than just mindless PvP.

If you want to listen to the interview in full, check it out here.

[For anyone interested, I put my post-interview thoughts into this blogpost: Crouching Developer, Exploding Mountain: A CCP Interview.]
Assimil8r
The other ONE
#22 - 2012-05-23 19:55:35 UTC
Good to know I'm not the only one dissatisfied with the fact that CCP has copped out of creating new backstory in favour of "give the users a big sandbox to create their own stories with". I didn't start playing EVE because I wanted to write my story from scratch - I started it because I wanted to be part of a continually unfolding and changing story. (I'm sure the usual suspects will be along shortly to tell me I'm playing the game wrong. Good for you, go play in the traffic.)

So what's the problem? Well, as already mentioned, CCP deciding to lay off 20% of their workforce because Hilmar makes poor business decisions, certainly didn't help things. But a bigger culprit, IMO, was the introduction of the CSM. The CSM, not CCP, now effectively controls what goes in the game and what doesn't - and the CSM delegates have shown sod all interest in expanding the rich tapestry of EVE's history. They have, however, shown a lot of interest in twisting CCP's arm to implement things that will benefit them (Goons and Titan nerf anyone?) and only them. How can that be healthy for EVE?

What pulls people into game worlds - something that Blizzard understands so well, hence their success - is the history of that world. You can have all the gameplay you like, but without new things constantly shaping the world, that world will be boring. EVE is rapidly heading in that direction.

Bring back the writers, CCP. Bring back the dreamers. Bring back the ones who create universes with their minds. They are the ones who should be dictating the game's direction, not players with their own selfish interests at heart. I'm not saying the CSM should be disbanded - but certainly its suggestions should take back seat to the direction that the creative people at CCP want to take the game.
Milo Caman
Anshar Incorporated
#23 - 2012-05-23 20:18:15 UTC
Seismic Stan wrote:

Other mechanisms are also available to us. As Dropbear pointed out in the interview, the construction of Arek'Jalaan Site One: Antiquus in the Eram system is a great example. Over 30 billion ISK in materials was provided by players to construct what is essentially "roleplaying fluff". This proves that there is a strong interest in the more than just mindless PvP.


Disclaimer: I am extremely bitter about the way the storyline has been going (or not going for the past year or two)

Arek'Jalaan was completely shafted by the release of Templar One, as the original 'gradual release of information through player actions' was completely bypassed by the novel.

There was a time when I remember daily world-building articles showing up on EVE newsfeeds. Rather than ridiculous epic, world-shifting conflicts, there were a dozen or so smaller, but significantly more interesting background news things going on. EVE actually *felt* like a living universe.

This has unfortunately been ditched in favor of a dumbed down, singular storyline based around a few large entities. Groups that previously fell under various shades of grey, have been simplified into distinctly 'good' and 'bad' groups. Sansha's Nation is the most prominent, having gone from creepy, but idealistic transhumanists to mad space zombies who abduct worlds without even attempting to justify it.

Conflicts between the empires have also been damaged, with the Amarr turning into beard twirling opium smoking conquistadors with no ethical integrity, and the Minmatar, AK wielding sudanese rebels without a clue. Even the previously complex Caldari/Gallente conflict has been turned into space-fascists (Heth) versus space-America (Gallente).

I can't pinpoint exactly when things went to hell. Looking back, it was probably a gradual process, but I'm of the opinion the entire team in charge of the backstory needs to be booted into pushing out quality stuff again as opposed to this simplified trash we keep getting.
Mijano
Hakaari Inc.
#24 - 2012-05-23 20:21:32 UTC
There are many things in this life given to us for the wrong reasons. What a man does with such blessings, that is the true test of a man.

No, it doesn't go topic. It's awesome, though.

I am more interested in why Gallente is at war with Caldari. I thought peace was settled for "the prosperity and wealth of mankind"? Yes, a deeper story would indeed be interesting, however, I doubt there to be enough people in need of it to scream for it. What I do know, though, is that CCP most likely wouldn't have a problem completely ignoring null-sec-players in favor of their own storyline. Imagine that you'd created a world, would you then not enjoy playing god and continuing to write this world? Why then does people find a need to complain? Why does CCP not fix a team to play god?

Faction Warfare is a genius part, really, as it makes EVE even more the sandbox than it was. Now we no longer have to go to null-sec to fight for a useless cause, but the cause itself in high sec falls flat if we don't create devastating consequences (that people involved in FW can't dock in enemy territory ... well, it's a small but a genius move). Let me share something with you.

Entropia Universe (a real-cash economy MMO) has a planetary system where different IRL companies can build their planets and thus creates a competing environment with the other planet partners. This benefits the players. A new planet has just arrived with a soft launch, called Planet Cyrene, and the planet partner behind this planet plans to utilize a tool which gives the developers the opportunity to create the world from the actions' of its players, e.g. 50 players do things in place A but ignores place B; place A will prosper, while place B will become New York without a sewer system.

I believe FW to be a road to this and I also have enough faith in CCP that this is something they can achieve. Let EVE stay a sandbox. Fighting in null sec isn't much more than playing World of Warcraft; all you need to know is when to do what to get that boss (or player) shatter into several pieces.

It is my profound hope that EVE's storyline will continue to develop and that not only "the evil parts" of EVE will represent "the core which is EVE". I myself am not much of a roleplayer, but I do enjoy politics, and I want something to fight for; I want a reason to do something. I want the ability to change things in the storyline rather than just create my own storyline in null doing the same thing each time someone trespasses into my alliance's territory. It really isn't that fun to shoot pixels "just because".

I want a reason to fight. An idea could of course be to give very valuable resources to high sec systems, but if Gallente, for instance, owns that system, only Gallente-characters' involved in Factional Warfare will get to enjoy this wealth, and if Caldari-players (in Factional Warfare; this is important - only FW-players should get to enjoy this wealth and fight for it) wishes to take this system from the Gallente Federation so they themselves can enjoy this wealth, it should be possible (which it also is, but there should be a collective reason for taking over a faction system in high sec).

Like I said: Let EVE stay the sandbox it promotes itself to be; not all of us have an interest in spending time with mindless pvp-ing goons, nor gank new players just because we're bored. I really hope CCP reads this post as I've just started respecting my intelligence even more than I did an hour ago, and that's quite the achievement on my part.

M.
Mijano
Hakaari Inc.
#25 - 2012-05-23 20:31:11 UTC
Milo Caman wrote:
Even the previously complex Caldari/Gallente conflict has been turned into space-fascists (Heth) versus space-America (Gallente).

I agree on this one. I had to dig rather deep to find out that (from my point of view) the Gallente Federation is like the European Union trying to force the Caldari State into the Federation and from its independence.

It is, like you say, more complicated than nationalists vs liberals, but this is basically the point of view most people have in my experience. Personally I wouldn't just want more lore and stories, but rather more lore and stories from good writers.

A few years ago I played World of Warcraft for a few months and I spent more time reading the lore than I did playing the game. WoW offers a lore on such a level that no other RPGMMO out there can compete with it; whether you enjoy fantasy or science fiction, it simply isn't debatable - and why is that? Does Blizzard have more money to hire better writers, or do they have more people to make sure that one article doesn't contradict another? Hopefully CCP will renew its interesting in lore and articles to give us a reason to fight (and also the ability to affect the lore) enemy factions.

I do hope for a change here.
Utemetsu
#26 - 2012-05-23 20:35:30 UTC
I'd like them to start with adding NPC ships going about their business. We can't be the only ones flying.
Cerov Aurilen
Karmunism Limited
#27 - 2012-05-23 20:42:06 UTC
Utemetsu wrote:
I'd like them to start with adding NPC ships going about their business. We can't be the only ones flying.

I'd figure that this would be the easiest to implement and would crowd the skies in popular systems. Perhaps even collateral damage becomes a factor from this?
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#28 - 2012-05-23 20:43:19 UTC
Eve lost it's storyline years ago.

It is more of a mash up nowadays.
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-05-23 21:03:02 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
I agree, Incursions in hisec go against all roleplaying, lore and storyline stuff. Its stupid.


your idiot if you think that. There is a logical reason why with the lore and the back story of Sansha. he is holding a grudge against the Empire States. Low Sec and 0.0 is just desert for him seeing that most run away from the incursion areas. Just because you think its stupid doesn't mean that there is actually a story behind it. Remember one thing....every story has an ending, reprieve, and then a new enemy.

Have fun kiddies
Mijano
Hakaari Inc.
#30 - 2012-05-23 21:38:00 UTC
Lets walk down memory lane while we hug each other and remember what CCP is really capable of when mind is put to task: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjbwsyhJjUs
Josef Djugashvilis
#31 - 2012-05-23 21:41:22 UTC
Eve has a storyline?

This is not a signature.

Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#32 - 2012-05-23 21:51:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Wyke Mossari
Drop Bears experiment in interactive story telling, Arek Jaalan, showed a great way forward and was an outstanding success. It is deeply disappointing that it is seemingly being shelved following Drop Bears departure. The all new wiki is a poor replacement for what we had.

I don't see how we can be any clearer in our support for AJ, live events than we have been.
Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
#33 - 2012-05-23 21:52:18 UTC
Mijano wrote:
Lets walk down memory lane while we hug each other and remember what CCP is really capable of when mind is put to task: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjbwsyhJjUs


Beautiful. Nice find fella, I've not seen that in years. That's so going into the web version of Mark726's EVE Lore Survival Guide which I curate on Freebooted.

It fits nicely at the bottom of the Introduction page.
Amitious Turkey
10kSubnautic
Warriors of the Blood God
#34 - 2012-05-23 22:15:43 UTC
I remember printing out Chronicles and reading them in school at lunch. I even wrote (but never posted) a short fan story.

Haven't done it in years, about since wormholes came out. I was intensely interested then but the stuff now doesn't make me want to get involved, because I don't feel like I could have an influence (i.e. Faction Warfare).

And I want to see moar Sleepers. Moar! A live event or two, or Sleepers attacking POSes would benefit wormhole space immensely.

I like to lick things.

Haunting the forums since 03.

Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#35 - 2012-05-23 22:26:26 UTC
We have identified some problems, namely in-game storyline involvement being something that is sorely missed. However, I do have to point out that the Evelopedia is turning out to be an absolutely beautiful work. I've been spending hours at work weaving through the intricacies of Amarrian history lately. However, this is only a background resource, not an actual story.

I have great admiration for CCP Abraxas and have faith in his vision; he certainly has a great depth of understanding of the universe of EVE and has made some amazing Chrons reflecting that. Full of ambiguity and realism and beauty, and I've found his work is always a joy to read. His Amarr chronicles are especially noteworthy. I just wish the storyline department had some more people to help him with the monumental task of making the story live again.

Hear us CCP! We want to play a part in the drama!

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Valdezi
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#36 - 2012-05-23 22:51:16 UTC
It's been too long since there's been any interactivity from the world. The story needs to progress, in the shape of IC news articles and in game Actor-interactions.

I agree with Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-05-23 23:08:35 UTC
I love the EVE universe, and I love immersing myself in its story, and I find that recently I haven't had enough chances to do that.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#38 - 2012-05-23 23:39:34 UTC
It's worth noting that many RP corporations and entire alliances flourished off of CCP interaction. CVA and Ushra'Khan come to mind. Now, without CCP interaction they have fallen to the wayside and are now mostly normal, non role-play organizations, with only the occasional hurrah for their old roots surfacing in an RP-based wardec or the odd IGS post.

Let us RP'ers live again!

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
The Fourth District
#39 - 2012-05-23 23:58:14 UTC
The underlying story is a stepping stone for player stories, it helps in driving decisions.

A great example is the news out of FW before the patch hit. Fed corp supporting Amarr defense efforts! This is a story ripe to be told from the perspective of the Scope with reactions from the Senate and populace - reward these players for their choices with praise.

We are advancing the storyline, but there is no indication that anyone in CCP cares or notices.
Pres Crendraven
#40 - 2012-05-24 00:56:38 UTC
storyline contracted out to freelance null Alliance writers.

Meta34me

Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent.