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Change: You think you're immune? Guess again.

Author
Hroya
#21 - 2012-05-22 20:57:23 UTC
Cant wait to play, tomorrow after work.
Bugged patches are the best. It filters out those that can handle Yikes moments and those that run for the hills.

You all know that the bugs will be fixed that disrupt gameplay so hold on to your shiny smooth lives as things will work out asap.


You go your corridor but.

Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-05-22 20:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Pok Nibin
Malcanis wrote:
Remember when the new font was going to kill EVE, ruined immersion, caused cancer and threw puppies into bonfires?
You, sir, have FAR too many likes!

Virgil Travis wrote:
...but it has bugs that need ironing out, like window position and size persistence.

If they'd spent more time working on this it would have been better received but it's only part way finished from what I've seen, and the fact that they seem to have not listened to all the feedback given is a little concerning.

Plus all the other bugs that seem to have sprung from the woodwork with this patch, :cripes:


The window size and position thing seems to follow like the plague. Could be they've noted these bugs, but are stuck having to deal with such things in phases. I'm confident they'll iron things out. However, I'm also quite sure the folks who don't like it no matter no how just won't like losing the other method to organize.

Personally I like this one. Now, I've just got to learn how to USE it.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#23 - 2012-05-22 21:01:29 UTC
Honestly, if they fix the window state memory and maybe change the handling of certain things (like loot containers opening in a new window) it'll end up being a nice improvement overall. Right now, I really don't want to use it; just feels really clunky and poorly thought out.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Romar Agent
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-05-22 21:09:04 UTC
I will experiment with the new inventory and will try to see if can be setup so it can replace containers.

I.e. I'm using different containers for different categories of equipment (as I guess most people do). I can forsee that CCPs classification may not match mine (I see rigs as expendable items which fall into the same category as ammo), but I'll give it a try.

Compartementalization through filters: will it be possible? Or will I stay with containers and just get the added tree view out of it. I'll see.

I basically seem to be the disidentification guy, which scares me, so I'm trying to slap on some action...
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-05-22 21:15:46 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
Psychologists identify four major reactions to significant changes in people's accustomed environment or routine activities:

Disengagement - Withdrawal, loss of initiative or interest, fear while hoping for the best, being physically present but mentally absent, loss of drive and commitment, marginal performance.

Dis-identification - Identity is threatened by change, loss of sense of mastery, dwelling on the "old" way of doing things, sadness and worry.

Disenchantment - negativity or anger, seeking support by forming coalitions, engaging in sabotage or backstabbing.

Disorientation - feeling lost and unsure, wasting energy figuring out "what" to do instead of "how" to do things, become detail-oriented, leave tasks until all "questions" are answered, feeling of losing touch with priorities, analyzing the change "to death".

(Thanks University of Pittsburgh Psych Department)


"Life is change. How it differs from the rocks." - Grace Slick -

We go through this every time. The devs try to refine their product that's some eight or nine years old now, incrementally to prevent crippling shock ravaging the masses. We get the same percentage of people overall reacting in one of the four above mentioned fashions every time. If you did a statisical check, you'd find with each change the same number of people post the same type of reaction...every time.

In the dreaded and unmentioned RL, it's likely change is met the same way by the same people in the same numbers. It's only natural. Move one stick of furniture and my border collie is suspicious for a week. He'll calm down, but months after he'll still sniff it as he walks by as if to say "this still isn't RIGHT."

What we should ask ourselves is are we reacting to what and how it was changed, or to the change itself? Most of us from many years of experience know you're unfamiliar with a key punching, 'puter procedure till you do it a few times, and before you know it, it's second nature. Sure as my Hurricane is under-insured, the same will happen with THIS change, as it has with all the OTHER changes.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it." - Every Redneck I've Ever Worked With -

It's true, sometimes people mess with things just to be messing with them (as we say in Alabama). Change for the sake of change is resisted and it's arguable - rightly so. The question then becomes, was the change necessary, or an improvement? I daresay so far, until we've all made the new keystrokes second nature, we can't really say. So, much criticism is a bit premature, and is likely a reaction to the change itself.

Over time we may find a change, or two, just weren't for the best. I'm sure the devs aren't so hard-headed as to ignore this. However, some people are enamored of their own work, and themselves resist change - especially if it involves reversing a change they thought was so brilliant to begin with. Such vanity isn't very helpful, but we can't know if this is presently the case until events unfold. This, too, will take time.

In the meanwhile, I just love watching us being ourselves. Don't you? The one sure change we can all agree on is - Be sure to change your underwear. You never know WHEN you might be hit by a bus.


"The sky is not yellow, it's chicken" - Hippie with a guitar.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-05-22 21:21:23 UTC
B3AST MODE B3AST wrote:
EVE Online was a fun game, 9 years was a good run CCP...but I'm out.


Evidence expansions like these are a step in the right direction. Keep up the good work CCP!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#27 - 2012-05-22 21:25:41 UTC
Pok Nibin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Remember when the new font was going to kill EVE, ruined immersion, caused cancer and threw puppies into bonfires?
You, sir, have FAR too many likes!



Possibly, but they haven't made me big-headed or anything. I guess what I'm saying is don't let that hold you back from giving me one more.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-05-22 21:30:35 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Pok Nibin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Remember when the new font was going to kill EVE, ruined immersion, caused cancer and threw puppies into bonfires?
You, sir, have FAR too many likes!



Possibly, but they haven't made me big-headed or anything. I guess what I'm saying is don't let that hold you back from giving me one more.


They have, but gave you a like anyways! P
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#29 - 2012-05-22 23:03:55 UTC
OH M GOD THIS INVENTORY IS FREAKING KILLING ME!!!!1!!!! THE WORLD IS ENDING EVE IS DYING THIS CAN'T.... oh wait I'm not logged in. Never mind.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Vyl Vit
#30 - 2012-05-23 17:17:37 UTC
shameless bump

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#31 - 2012-05-23 17:24:17 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
shameless bump


What do psychologists say about developers going their way despite a large majority of testers saying their direction is wrong?

I also love change, but only if it's polished and changes for the better.
Malice Redeemer
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#32 - 2012-05-23 17:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Malice Redeemer
Vyl Vit wrote:
Psychologists identify four major reactions to significant changes in people's accustomed environment or routine activities:

Disengagement - Withdrawal, loss of initiative or interest, fear while hoping for the best, being physically present but mentally absent, loss of drive and commitment, marginal performance.

Dis-identification - Identity is threatened by change, loss of sense of mastery, dwelling on the "old" way of doing things, sadness and worry.

Disenchantment - negativity or anger, seeking support by forming coalitions, engaging in sabotage or backstabbing.

Disorientation - feeling lost and unsure, wasting energy figuring out "what" to do instead of "how" to do things, become detail-oriented, leave tasks until all "questions" are answered, feeling of losing touch with priorities, analyzing the change "to death".

(Thanks University of Pittsburgh Psych Department)


"Life is change. How it differs from the rocks." - Grace Slick -

We go through this every time. The devs try to refine their product that's some eight or nine years old now, incrementally to prevent crippling shock ravaging the masses. We get the same percentage of people overall reacting in one of the four above mentioned fashions every time. If you did a statisical check, you'd find with each change the same number of people post the same type of reaction...every time.

In the dreaded and unmentioned RL, it's likely change is met the same way by the same people in the same numbers. It's only natural. Move one stick of furniture and my border collie is suspicious for a week. He'll calm down, but months after he'll still sniff it as he walks by as if to say "this still isn't RIGHT."

What we should ask ourselves is are we reacting to what and how it was changed, or to the change itself? Most of us from many years of experience know you're unfamiliar with a key punching, 'puter procedure till you do it a few times, and before you know it, it's second nature. Sure as my Hurricane is under-insured, the same will happen with THIS change, as it has with all the OTHER changes.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it." - Every Redneck I've Ever Worked With -

It's true, sometimes people mess with things just to be messing with them (as we say in Alabama). Change for the sake of change is resisted and it's arguable - rightly so. The question then becomes, was the change necessary, or an improvement? I daresay so far, until we've all made the new keystrokes second nature, we can't really say. So, much criticism is a bit premature, and is likely a reaction to the change itself.

Over time we may find a change, or two, just weren't for the best. I'm sure the devs aren't so hard-headed as to ignore this. However, some people are enamored of their own work, and themselves resist change - especially if it involves reversing a change they thought was so brilliant to begin with. Such vanity isn't very helpful, but we can't know if this is presently the case until events unfold. This, too, will take time.

In the meanwhile, I just love watching us being ourselves. Don't you? The one sure change we can all agree on is - Be sure to change your underwear. You never know WHEN you might be hit by a bus.


Guy, we tested this crap on the test server, and its not even all about the changes, duh. Its the attitude and direction of the development team, game of drones, that I'm upset about.

Thanks for the cool post about what you think is happening though.

I mean you hit the nail on the head for sure about the "enamored of their own work part", but do remember + 1 month, this is not the first feedback they have had on these issues.
Malice Redeemer
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#33 - 2012-05-23 17:39:00 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
The question then becomes, was the change necessary, or an improvement? I daresay so far, until we've all made the new keystrokes second nature, we can't really say.
Nah. The question becomes: do the additions add more value than the things that were unquestionably lost, and does “improvement” really have room for such a thing as lost functionality?


The change was necessary; the loss of functionality and efficiency was not. It could have been an improvement, but was fumbled. At best, it might reach a level of “just as good, but in a completely different way”, which doesn't really qualify.


These are the EXACT words I used during the neocom changes, what a waste of potential they are are only now starting to scratch. Here is too hoping that some kind of super dev wooshs in and fixes both unfinished products
Disdaine
#34 - 2012-05-23 17:47:07 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Remember when CQ was going to kill EVE, ruined immersion, caused cancer and threw puppies into bonfires?


What happened? They listened and gave us the ship hangar back and I'll wager a majority of players haven't set foot in CQ again.
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-05-23 18:22:47 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
Psychologists identify four major reactions to significant changes in people's accustomed environment or routine activities:


Thanks for the irrelevant psychology lesson, but the argument isn't about change per se, it's about change that makes things functionally less good than they were before for a lot of players.
Vyl Vit
#36 - 2012-05-23 18:42:08 UTC
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
Psychologists identify four major reactions to significant changes in people's accustomed environment or routine activities:


Thanks for the irrelevant psychology lesson, but the argument isn't about change per se, it's about change that makes things functionally less good than they were before for a lot of players.

The psych is always relevant. You can pretend that it isn't, but then that's psych, too. Words like "value" and "good" are terms of judgement. Opinions are like a$$holes, everybody's got one. You'll have a hard time proving to me the changes are negative in terms of functionality, rather than just different. And, of course, you can have an abrasive attitude when you do. That's just more psych.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

TheBreadMuncher
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
#37 - 2012-05-23 19:02:42 UTC
Why is it that I can relate to everyone one of those things... Shocked

"We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming.

Vyl Vit
#38 - 2012-05-23 19:12:05 UTC
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
Why is it that I can relate to everyone one of those things... Shocked

Cause you a good man.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-05-23 19:16:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie-A Tassik
Vyl Vit wrote:
Psychologists identify four major reactions to significant changes in people's accustomed environment or routine activities:

Disengagement - Withdrawal, loss of initiative or interest, fear while hoping for the best, being physically present but mentally absent, loss of drive and commitment, marginal performance.

Dis-identification - Identity is threatened by change, loss of sense of mastery, dwelling on the "old" way of doing things, sadness and worry.

Disenchantment - negativity or anger, seeking support by forming coalitions, engaging in sabotage or backstabbing.

Disorientation - feeling lost and unsure, wasting energy figuring out "what" to do instead of "how" to do things, become detail-oriented, leave tasks until all "questions" are answered, feeling of losing touch with priorities, analyzing the change "to death".

(Thanks University of Pittsburgh Psych Department)


"Life is change. How it differs from the rocks." - Grace Slick -

We go through this every time. The devs try to refine their product that's some eight or nine years old now, incrementally to prevent crippling shock ravaging the masses. We get the same percentage of people overall reacting in one of the four above mentioned fashions every time. If you did a statisical check, you'd find with each change the same number of people post the same type of reaction...every time.

In the dreaded and unmentioned RL, it's likely change is met the same way by the same people in the same numbers. It's only natural. Move one stick of furniture and my border collie is suspicious for a week. He'll calm down, but months after he'll still sniff it as he walks by as if to say "this still isn't RIGHT."

What we should ask ourselves is are we reacting to what and how it was changed, or to the change itself? Most of us from many years of experience know you're unfamiliar with a key punching, 'puter procedure till you do it a few times, and before you know it, it's second nature. Sure as my Hurricane is under-insured, the same will happen with THIS change, as it has with all the OTHER changes.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it." - Every Redneck I've Ever Worked With -

It's true, sometimes people mess with things just to be messing with them (as we say in Alabama). Change for the sake of change is resisted and it's arguable - rightly so. The question then becomes, was the change necessary, or an improvement? I daresay so far, until we've all made the new keystrokes second nature, we can't really say. So, much criticism is a bit premature, and is likely a reaction to the change itself.

Over time we may find a change, or two, just weren't for the best. I'm sure the devs aren't so hard-headed as to ignore this. However, some people are enamored of their own work, and themselves resist change - especially if it involves reversing a change they thought was so brilliant to begin with. Such vanity isn't very helpful, but we can't know if this is presently the case until events unfold. This, too, will take time.

In the meanwhile, I just love watching us being ourselves. Don't you? The one sure change we can all agree on is - Be sure to change your underwear. You never know WHEN you might be hit by a bus.


Look Soudwaffe needed to terminate people who didn't agree with him.

In a surprising turn of events, these are the same people who know how to make things work.

This is the result. Ha ha.

It's sad that the steals the other peoples stuffs didn't work out this time like it usually does.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-05-23 19:17:21 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
The question then becomes, was the change necessary, or an improvement? I daresay so far, until we've all made the new keystrokes second nature, we can't really say.
Nah. The question becomes: do the additions add more value than the things that were unquestionably lost, and does “improvement” really have room for such a thing as lost functionality?


The change was necessary; the loss of functionality and efficiency was not. It could have been an improvement, but was fumbled. At best, it might reach a level of “just as good, but in a completely different way”, which doesn't really qualify.


Today patch fixed one of the most annoying issues: windows closing/resizing changing position etc, witch all the sudden makes it a little better.

However it's always clicky fest dealing with multiple containers, fitted and non fitted ships yadayada

brb