These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Why do game developers prefer Windows?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Neptune Thunderclap
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-05-23 17:23:52 UTC
Is it that DirectX is easier or better than OpenGL, even if OpenGL is cross-platform? Why do we not see real powerful games for Linux like there are for Windows?
Damien Valdes
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-05-23 17:25:20 UTC
OS Platform Statistics

Windows 7 and Windows XP are the most popular operating systems. The Windows family counts for over 80%:

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#3 - 2012-05-23 17:26:34 UTC
Neptune Thunderclap wrote:
Is it that DirectX is easier or better than OpenGL, even if OpenGL is cross-platform? Why do we not see real powerful games for Linux like there are for Windows?



Apart from CCP developers that apparently hate windows thus have culled them from the client Lol

Tal


Alua Oresson
League of the Shieldy
SLYCE Pirates
#4 - 2012-05-23 17:28:27 UTC
Does this answer your question? I too love the Linux operating system, but you can't cater to an almost nonexistent demographic. Besides, CCP does try to make sure that it still works under WINE, which is more than most do.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#5 - 2012-05-23 17:29:51 UTC
I havent seen open GL as a graphic option in alot of my games last game I recall seeing open Gl support was Homeworld 2.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Mina Hiragi
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-05-23 17:35:09 UTC
Neptune Thunderclap wrote:
Is it that DirectX is easier or better than OpenGL, even if OpenGL is cross-platform? Why do we not see real powerful games for Linux like there are for Windows?


Because Linux, as a desktop operating system, is even less popular than a new inventory management window.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#7 - 2012-05-23 17:35:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Damien Valdes wrote:
OS Platform Statistics

Windows 7 and Windows XP are the most popular operating systems. The Windows family counts for over 80%:

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp



Is say cause there are more of them...

Kinda the reason there arent viri for macs


oh whoops

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#8 - 2012-05-23 17:39:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Windows has been the only mainstream OS for a long time. It's a bit less so now, but still far more common than anything else. So, OpenGL's versatility doesn't really mean that much.

For whatever reason the game development community has chosen DirectX. Presumably there's something about the DirectX technology which makes it better/faster/whatever than OpenGL.
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-05-23 17:48:43 UTC
Microsoft has a lot of power and uses it almost exclusively to force the world onto the Windows desktop. No tinfoil hat needed as it has been proven in several anti-trust cases. They gimped OpenGL once DirectX was out, and had incentives to developers to use their proprietary stuff rather than any open standards.

MS business as usual.
Damien Valdes
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-05-23 17:50:12 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:



Is say cause there are more of them...

Kinda the reason there arent viri for macs


oh whoops


And that would have any bearing on this conversation how?

They program to windows for the same reason someone manufactures something in demand in EVE.

To make money.

80% = much bigger market than 4.9%. More money.
CARB0N FIBER
Derailleurs
#11 - 2012-05-23 17:52:23 UTC
Like most people that count I started with DOS(never really figured it out). Moved on to windows. About 3 years ago I switched to Mac. I will never go back! Everyone is intitled to their opinion. Mine is, there is Mac than there is everything else. I love Eve, CCP not so much. I do thank CCP for making Eve playable on Mac. If that ever changes I will give Eve up, despite my addiction. Jjust like I gave up the devils grass 10 years ago and cigarettes 2 months ago. I can't beat addiction, I can!
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#12 - 2012-05-23 17:55:03 UTC
Same reasson no one writes viruses for Linux, because less than 1% of the market use it.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-05-23 17:55:53 UTC
3DFX and Glide.....The Good ol days...
Sycho Pathic
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-05-23 18:06:39 UTC
Doc Severide wrote:
3DFX and Glide.....The Good ol days...


I stumbled across several Voodoo cards while packing for the move to the new house. (Along with some Tseng Labs ET4000 cards and a Number Nine card I used under Windows 3.0 that, adjusted for today's dollar, cost more than most used cars)

Was going to keep them for nostalgia's sake but my wife got to the box before I could get it on the truck. >.<
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-05-23 18:11:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Rico Minali wrote:
Same reasson no one writes viruses for Linux, because less than 1% of the market use it.


No. Reason is that to get access to critical system files in any Unix based system requires administrator rights. When you're logged in as normal user you have full access only to your own home folder. Of course there are viruses that can exploit any hole in system to get around this but those are very rare. Very bad security issues gets fixed in hours rather than weeks. It's not same for Windows. Of course UAC helps a bit but virus can still do damaga to system even without rights.

And that's only desktop market. Look at servers and supercomputers and Windows is in minority.
Andy DelGardo
#16 - 2012-05-23 18:14:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy DelGardo
Neptune Thunderclap wrote:
Is it that DirectX is easier or better than OpenGL, even if OpenGL is cross-platform? Why do we not see real powerful games for Linux like there are for Windows?


Yes and Yes for both questions. DirectX is easier and faster to develop for, also most third party tools and applications only support DirectX and not openGL. The new directX10/11 api also adds some really nice features and is easer to maintain, compared to openGL.
The next problem is that it roughly takes a year for Ati/nvidia to support the latest openGL release, while they always directly support any new directx release, from day 0.

Except for linux, there is also no real advantage on using openGL over DirectX anymore, in the past openGL 3.2 held some advantages over directX9, but compared to DX11, openGL has none anymore.

The most critical reason however is this: Today most games are designed to also run on consoles, so the PC version is often just a tweaked a upgraded console version and since the XBOX360 nearly uses a compatible directX9/10 api, its more economical to use DirectX as basis. The PS3 uses a very different openGL 1.0 version, which is quite different from the current openGL 4.2 version.

However there is hope, with the rise of the MAC and iOS, since there openGL is the only supported 3d api for games. So my guess is that we will see more and more openGL ports for the MAC and maybe those developers take the time and also release a linux version, but the problem is that openGL don't include all game layers needed like directX does. So for example the input and sound framework need still to-be adapted per platform, which make linux ports still less appealing.

bye Andy
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#17 - 2012-05-23 18:20:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Miilla
Cost's, supply of CHEAP workers with Windows skills.

In fact we dumped QNX industry systems for Windows for this very reason, which was ludicrious for a system that has to run 24/7 without failure, personally I think it's a bad decision.

COBOL works, but can you get a cheap COBOL (or RPG) developer? Hell no. Those systems just fracking WORK, and have done for the past 30 years or more. Has windows? Hell no. PS. I worked at MSFT for a decade lol and also in other industries.

Has MS got the best developer tools? Yes and No. Yes in some ways, no in others. I have been there since Win16 up to Win32 and from .Net pre beta internally, would I say they have great tools? yes and no, yes for tools, no for bloat and cutting out specific industries (mobile field capture in WP7 for one - Android won here pure and simply a clear winner).

Games, well lets not forget every new machine has Windows supplied by OEM licenses, that right there is reason enough for game houses to target Windows and XBOX via Unreal engine or other cross platform DirectX runtimes.

Open GL? Well... nope, unfortuneately they are too political in their slow decision making which is typical of open source. DX came in and stomped all over them during their ego pissing contest, in many ways DX is something MS done right given the OGL alternative at that time.

I remember the days when C was not your standard C, it was Borland C vs Visual C vs etc etc.. lol so count yourself lucky what tools you have today, then again have you seen the cost of Visual Studio lol, ridiculous, even though I get MS employee pricing lol, Eclipse,. well if you start to use Eclipse outside of Java, it crashes more than Visual Studio (which does crash a lot too).

The big money is in big AAA title franchise licensing and also mobile gaming and micropayments, and that means basically, Windows and Consoles and Mobiles. Linux has the sigma of everybody is a pirate and wont pay a penny, and in many ways they are right, gaming as a service and micropayments will want to hit as many platforms as possible, so it boils down to market demographics and metrics (CCP loves these as we seen in Incarna).

End of the day, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Same as it is in Eve game, if you don't like a contract price or item, stfu and walk away.
Kale Kold
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-05-23 18:21:51 UTC
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/valve-is-porting-steam-and-the-source-engine-to-linux-20120425/

“Some people call me insane for the destruction I’ve caused, ...I believe I was just doing my duty!” -- Testimony submitted to Caldari Navy war crimes tribunal.
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-05-23 18:25:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagdul
Savage Angel wrote:
Microsoft has a lot of power and uses it almost exclusively to force the world onto the Windows desktop. No tinfoil hat needed as it has been proven in several anti-trust cases. They gimped OpenGL once DirectX was out, and had incentives to developers to use their proprietary stuff rather than any open standards.

MS business as usual.


If Linux was a quality desktop product, people would use it. Firefox/Chrome are examples of awesome free software that are better than what MS puts out. Another example is CCleaner.

However there are too many nerds fighting over who's distro is more awesome than the next making forward progression and compatibility something that becomes a second thought.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-05-23 18:25:27 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:

No. Reason is that to get access to critical system files in any Unix based system requires administrator rights. When you're logged in as normal user you have full access only to your own home folder. Of course there are viruses that can exploit any hole in system to get around this but those are very rare. Very bad security issues gets fixed in hours rather than weeks. It's not same for Windows. Of course UAC helps a bit but virus can still do damaga to system even without rights.

And that's only desktop market. Look at servers and supercomputers and Windows is in minority.


The same is windows. Problem is 95% of windows users set up their default login as administrator. And of those, only 1% maybe know what they are doing with a computer. Anybody I set up a computer, I have an admin account, but they log in as non admin. Never any problems. Windows issues is more that than anything else. Linux is a PITA for most people, and having to go to the source community for most things, even more of a pain. Is why I use windows, my stuff works, and I never have problems because I know how to set it up. Sure efficiency issues, but I would rather that than compatability issues.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
123Next pageLast page