EVE General Discussion

Ironic how you take the "moral high ground" when your name itself is a slang word for intercourse. But I am guessing you already knew that.

Yeah. That response certainly caused a raised eyebrow.

Yes, everything ships with bugs. More so now than when I started (S-100 bus, CP/M days where you didn't have the "Fix it with a downloadable patch" option and pretty much had to nail it on release.)

The primary problem here is not bug related. It is a problem with the implementation itself. A few good ideas that were not completely thought out. A non-trivial number of use cases are impacted by this.

The hubris in that reply is definitely misplaced.

By and large, your userbase has a deeper understanding of their problem set and workflow than you, the developer. Takes some of us longer than others to truly understand that.

Soundwave... YOU couldn't "confirm" the existence of your butt in a brightly lit room with both hands, a mirror, and the assistance of half of Goonswarm.

The less you participate in EVE design issues, the better EVE will be.

A valid point. I posted that before Scrapyard Bob's great suggestions appeared in the forums. I think what he has proposed is the best way to go.

RR

I think I can see both points- however- I live in a wormhole, in a giant POS. Now, when I select something in say... my hangar tab, and I want to drag say, 1000 rounds of a particular ammunition, the second my cursor (and selected item) hover over the intended target in the tree, it closes my hangar tab and instead opens the target location. Very frustrating when I am trying to do an ammo swap, or dispense loot from one of the many victims that we just murdered. :) Just sayin.

Totaly agree, I was amazewd at that level of aragance and would only expect it from a dilbert cartoon - deja vue anyone. Also there user interface tagged ones all seem apt here, sadly.

This is how CCP operates, and should be of no surprise to anyone (I admit tho, each time I shake my head in disbelief myself, even tho I expect it). This is CCP in a nutshell:

* Zulu/whoever: "I don't like drones, they may or may not lag the server. We need to nerf them all! Start by carriers and motherships as they have so damn many!!11!1!2". Then CCP throws out a half-assed nerf attempt, showing zero understanding of actual game mechanics or gameplay. Players rage, eventually some weird compromise is met where noone is pleased. Fast forward a couple of years and eventually CCP gets their will through.
* CCP/whoever: "I want all my inventory in a unified box, let's make it happen!". Players: gives plenty of feedback, testing it on SiSi, etc, at the end of the day.. CCP does what the hell they want anyway.
* Hilmar/Soundwave/whoever: "Let's remove ship spinning and force everyone into this useless, depressing Closed Quarter!". Players: we don't like this! We want ship spinning back, and even if we would care about WiS, there's no content? why force this piece of **** on us? "CCP: because WE want it this way".
* CCP vs CSM: CCP want A, CSM want B. If CCP think B is acceptable: "CSM suggested this, and together we have..". If CCP don't like B, they simply run over CSM and implement A, sometimes without even testing it on SiSi.

TL;DR CCP is the very definition of hubris and narcissism. Look at any of their presentations from FanFest for example. "We are awsome and we know if! And if our customers don't agree with us, they just don't know yet how awsome this is!". No matter if it's bug-riddled, something the majority of the playerbase don't want, even if something isn't even completed before release.. don't worry, you can count on CCP taking the suicide route. They're just so awsome they do what the **** they want.

Sometimes I wonder if they live in some alternate reality. Just look at what CCP had:
* A kickass product/MMO that stood out.
* A rock solid player- and fanbase, and great customer relation (especially their community managers).

A couple of the higher-ups in the CCP hierarchy is doing their best to ruin these two by every decision they make. The future of this game could've been shining bright, but instead we see this kind of hubris and self-centered arrogance. Make no mistake, it comes from the higher-ups, this is the kind of company culture they have. It has to change from the top.

Same here

Though after seeing the dev blog and their willingness to change the UI to allow for somewhat pre-inferno accusation. I have a little ray of hope.

Yea I would be surprised if the base code for this thing didn't come from dust development which was then ported to eve. It would be too convenient accident not to be true.

However none of this really matters. I'm pretty much done with this entire topic already. With all the effort we put to prevent it should have been enough and tranq should not be in "unenjoyable" (for some) state today.

Now I haven't got any more energy to fight with the propaganda machine. At this point I'm just orbiting the monument and waiting my sub to expire or bare minimum usability fix to get the persistent windows back to inventory system in which point I could actually start thinking about reconfiguring my UI's, doing some industry work or fitting ships for pvp again (as in actually playing the game).

Call it about giving up or what you want. I've seen the dev blog what soundwave put up yesterday. It says plenty of nice things but still doesn't give us date for persistent multi window functionality. In fact with plenty of tinfoil it actually doesn't even promise that we get one, it states that "we´d really like to". However I hope and believe that the line above which says "Two issues we’ll fix" has the priority in that context.

All in all... What ever happens in the end, this unified misery could have been avoided. The information was available and much can be learned from it in future. Hopefully this entire fiasco ends up nicer than it lasted. It is all up to CCP's true intentions and future actions once again.

As a nice final comment to this thread I would like to link this post from end of january. It speaks for itself - in a way.

I think newer players need to learn that older players probably have worked out the most efficient use a system in game. Granted, systems change. But, there is absolutely no reason ignore old tricks. It's not that we're lazy and have settled for the way we do things. It's that there are specific ways to do things that are, quite frankly, so much easier than the way the new system would have you do it.

Your statement of shift click demonstrates how little you actually utilize the game's functionality. It works, but in a broken fashion. It will not retain those new windows. In fact, it will prompt you with some error message when you've done it for a ship's cargo and then swap out that ship or when you jump through a gate/wh you'll have a nice big inventory window appear for NO GODDAMED REASON! It also demonstrates that CCP did ZERO testing for usability. If I had to guess, their testing of this new feature consisted of opening it up while in station, seeing that it actually loaded and that was it.

Certainly they never used it at a POS otherwise they would have realized that it breaks management of POS systems and MANUFACTURING. The importance of this apparently has alluded you, again demonstrating your lack of knowledge about how the game really works beyond ship spinning.

Individual ship cargo windows: Is it that we're unable to adapt to the new system? No. It's that we don't like having to resize and move the uniinv for every task some of which are well suited for small windows that open in the same places and others that are suited for huge windows covering the majority of the screen. I don't want to have to open an inventory and resize it just to check how much ammo I have left in my ship's cargo. You've got to be ******* insane if you believe that to be more efficient.

POS management: It's not that we don't like the uniinv for that, cept, HTF do you efficiently use a system that is supposedly going to make inventory management efficient when we have to take inventory of every hangar, every SMA, every gun, every silo in order to determine what the hell we're trying to find when THEY'RE ALL NAMED THE SAME GODDAMED THING AND CAN'T BE RENAMED?!?!?

Ninja looting: The new uniinv breaks the ability to swoop past a wreck at +2000m/s and quickly grab the contents because it's spending time updating inventories for things you have no ******* way of accessing when you're out of range of them. I mean really! You've got to question a system that is querying **** you no intention or possibility of accessing. That's called BLOAT, my friend. It's programming without forethought or regard for efficient use of system resources which ultimately affects gameplay when every cpu cycle counts.

And as some people mention, it's more like Windows....great.....then lets move the game out of its own programming environment and actually program it for windows. At least then we could move to other monitors all the other little windows we have to have open for the game to be functional leaving a 100px X 100px free space environment without having to render the graphics across multiple monitors at OMFG x WTF resolutions.