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CSM7 Summit Topic: Corporation Mechanics

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Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#1 - 2012-05-17 21:26:24 UTC
Corporation Mechanics - This area of the game is a mess. The CSM wants to see several dozen improvements in this area to make life easier for everyone.

As anyone who has had to manage a corp can tell you, there are some serious UI pitfalls, as well as roles that are just plain useless/broken. What areas should CCP concentrate on?

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Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#2 - 2012-05-18 08:19:42 UTC
Easier and more reckognizable setting of roles and permissions.
Better tweaking options for various roles.
Siobhan MacLeary
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-05-18 08:41:23 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
Easier and more reckognizable setting of roles and permissions.
Better tweaking options for various roles.


So much this. I'm not a CEO but I have set permissions and roles before, and it is a UI nightmare.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave
Remulon McNab
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-05-18 08:51:30 UTC
Roles are nice but it's not easy audit someone's access in one view.
Titles are nice but quite old fashion, rather see customizable groups.

The roles are too general, example:
Communication Officer:
- corporation bookmarks
- chat channels (corp/alliance)

What if I want to give someone only rights to manage the bookmarks? person gets other free access.

Groups
I want to be able to create a group, assign roles to that group and assign group members.
Allow a character to be member of multiple groups, in such a way you allow more fine tuning of access rights.

The use of groups is done in so many places nowadays, it should/could be easy enough for everyone to understand.
(instead of finding out on the wiki page what which role exactly does)

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GeeShizzle MacCloud
#5 - 2012-05-18 11:56:22 UTC
information flow in corp management is really difficult, and most of the really good tools needed for proper corp management are built using resources gained from eve's API.

its a very big leap for corps to get a web developer to code tools for use with managing a growing corp, especially a null sec one. (thankfully we have one - yay)

but to all those who dont, its an absolute nightmare! areas include:
recruitment - knowing how many rejections an applicant has had previously (can be obtained via api), who accepted new members into corp. sharing intel to other corp directors on the hundreds of thousands of toons in eve online (shared comments page for corp recruiters and directors on each toons profile)
Management - no ambiguous (last week/last month) notification on members last login, total time online this month/ this week to track member activity.

etc...
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-05-18 13:23:55 UTC
Corporation members should not be able to cancel (or deliver) industry/science tasks which have been installed by other members, unless they got some very special super jesus role. At the moment they get that permission at same time when they get permission to manufacture/research with corporation prints.

This flaw prevents industrial corporations giving any real work for (most) members because anyone could cancel entire corporations running manufacturing jobs causing billions and billions of damage as lost materials or research time.

This is worst flaw in the current corporation roles and one of the primary reasons why there are so many 1 man corporations - imo.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Valek Noor
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-05-18 14:12:19 UTC
oh god where to start on this one

locking and unlocking of BP O's this is a current click fest nightmare
**audit logs on corp hangers**
splitting of roles not lumping everything into one category
make poses and SOV structures have different roles
alliance wallet - not sure how to work this one exactly maybe controlled by executor corp?
tidy the roles and titles UI most times it wont fit on my screen
more options for corp and alliance in-game logos


just a few of my pet peeves

this whole interface needs some serious loving.
Traiori
Going Critical
#8 - 2012-05-18 14:46:06 UTC
Lots of things need to be done. Not just restricted to corporate stuff:

POS Management is a nightmare due to hangar stuff. Let us do individual members for towers rather than global permissions? Set permissions for 'who can access stuff in containers' at the control tower. Have global permissions that override these. That is to say... Person A is a member who is needing to access Control Tower A and C. I can go to those control towers and give him access individually, without giving him access to B. However, I need to give Person B access to all of them as an emergency refueller, so can set a global permission for that. Person C needs refuelling rights for Tower A and B, but not for the rest, and I can set that too.

It's insanely complicated, I'm sure, but could be done by shifting some of the corporate UI into the tower... individual tower whitelists maybe? I'm aware that this is a bit of a crossover between corporation UI and POS stuff, so I won't delve too deeply into this except to add that someone needs to sort out alliance towers >.<

The above also needs to be done for office. At the moment we have 'HQ' 'Based at' and 'Other.' That means I can, at best, grant or deny access to 2 individual offices. Not good enough.

Let us 'renew' adverts. Or just have corporation adverts for longer. As someone who doesn't spend an awful lot of time in kspace, having to drop back into it for the sole purpose of writing and deploying a new advert is somewhat annoying.

Alliance adverts, because atm, recruiting for an alliance is moderately difficult. Unless I'm missing something somewhere.

EVE is a player driven game, so help us recruit more - adverts on the CONCORD bulletin boards maybe? In CQ? When WiS becomes bigger than just a captain's quarters, TV screens here and there showing similar things. Of course, these adverts would have to be submitted to CCP for approval etc. as otherwise we'll get a stripper on every screen.

Advance payment of bills. I don't want a monthly reminder, I want to sink 2 billion into keeping my corporation offices open for the next two years, and another billion into paying any and all alliance maintenance costs (until the stockpile of money runs out...). So that if armageddon comes to earth and knocks out the power for 6 months, my alliance is still here next time I get an internet connection and connect to the EVE Servers.

I'm aware I can set up bills to be paid automatically, but I'd quite like ISK to go into escrow, so that we can't accidentally spend it all on rebuilding a dread fleet after we lose it to the Ibiswarm

And fix the UI. It's horrible. Shift some roles out to being managed at the locations they apply to (using white lists). Split the other ones up to give us greater control, whilst keeping it usable. Remove ambiguity from roles and make it more intuitive. I don't want to give someone one role to discover that it acts differently to how I expected it to, and they can now steal four billion worth of exploration loot.
5hadow 1
The Shadow's Of Eve
TSOE Consortium
#9 - 2012-05-18 14:49:05 UTC  |  Edited by: 5hadow 1
From personal experience and talking with others CEO’s, one of the biggest issue with growing a zero zero corp/alliance is the trust factor and how one access assets. People in general who live in 0.0 space have enough drama with others who are KOS to them. One does not want to deal with corp. theif’s and he says/she says drama about people items being misplace/put in a hanger one cannot access or used without permission.

With CCP expanded inventory system why not expand the permissions of people to have access rights granted on a per Item/hanger/site basis. For example if you have a Personal Owned Spike (POS) in space, you have a corp. Hanger. Well why can’t one be assigned access to that one POS only and that one corp. hanger of that POS. So if there are 9 more POS in system that one person/toon cannot access nothing more unless assign or given a blanket permission like it is currently use now.

But another and a way easier fix IMO is just to make new item called a Personal Hanger Module to add to the POS. This hanger is just like your personal hanger in a real station but with less space were you can put your personal stuff in and only you can access it just like a station. This way everyone in the corp. or alliance, if the leadership chooses so, would be able to put their stuff in worry free. This would also in turn encourages more people for POS defense. Cause if you put stuff you need in there and no one else knows this, the POS becomes very important to one space they live in unlike a station where you can’t lose your stuff. You can sell you stuff in a station. You can’t in a POS. This would eliminate the need to overburden the sever with permission quay’s for each POS/person trying to access stuff. And the same thing for a ship maintenance bay. This way corps can grow and the CEO’s and other corporate leaders don’t have to micro manage assets. They can manage more pew pew instead.

Also fix the Corporate Hanger so the alliance members can access it too like the ship maintenance bay or make another hanger that is an Alliance Hanger too while we are on the subject. I can go into so much stuff to make life a little more bearable but I do not want to write a book. So in simple terms  FIX POS Management. ITS SUCKS!!!!!
5hadow 1
The Shadow's Of Eve
TSOE Consortium
#10 - 2012-05-18 15:03:05 UTC  |  Edited by: 5hadow 1
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Corporation members should not be able to cancel (or deliver) industry/science tasks which have been installed by other members, unless they got some very special super jesus role. At the moment they get that permission at same time when they get permission to manufacture/research with corporation prints.

This flaw prevents industrial corporations giving any real work for (most) members because anyone could cancel entire corporations running manufacturing jobs causing billions and billions of damage as lost materials or research time.

This is worst flaw in the current corporation roles and one of the primary reasons why there are so many 1 man corporations - imo.



100% SPOT ON POINT!!!!!!! And then they will tranfer the stuff to a holding toon. Kill or never log on with the theif toon for 6 months or more. Buy a new Toon with super cap/uber industrial skills with the isk from the stolen loot. Then rinse and repeat.
Myxx
The Scope
#11 - 2012-05-18 16:51:44 UTC
the corporation mechanics are an atrocity. There are so many loopholes that exist that I can't honestly find a way to do worse than it currently is. roles should be editable, allowing me or another person to edit what roles can do what
Traidir
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-05-19 09:08:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Traidir
Here's a few suggestions I've made previously.
Nevigrofnu Mrots
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2012-05-19 09:52:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevigrofnu Mrots
Many things suck, this is my list:

- The Corp window/tabs needs a facelift / new UI
- Permission system sucks and its not easy to understand
- Small day to day improvements to the corp management are a must like allowing us to accept multiple aplications...
- Log everything anyone in the corp does (corp related) from expeling a player to changing someone permissions
- creating a corp should be really expensive and a huge step in this game, not something you can do everyday and with no thinking (corps are important and not just something you do to escape NPC taxes in empire)
- that skill you need so you can have other race players in your corp doesn't make any sence, remove it
- The stock system for a corp is crap, do something about it, I go for removal
- allow custom corp logos like the alliance ones for aurum / plex / isk (I don't care)
Eidric
Private Shelter for Mad People
#14 - 2012-05-19 13:04:09 UTC
- More diverse permissions (ability to fuel POS / ability to fuel and take fuel from pos, bookmarks etc.)

- More secure Corp wallet handling (ability to view a specific subdivision w/o accessing information about corp wallet)

- Modified Billing system :
1. Creation of automated payouts (from corporation to alliance\corporation\member) with preset time interval and ability to define maximum number of payouts.
2. Automated Bills ( same as above ) No immediate repercussions just log file - "this months this and this havent paid"

- UI improvement
Andrea Griffin
#15 - 2012-05-23 04:04:11 UTC
More granular permissions are an absolute must. The permissions UI is also a total nightmare, and it isn't clear what certain permissions do. It is very easy for newer players to grant a role or two to someone and then get robbed blind because of unintended consequences.

Limiting the number of wallet and hangar divisions makes no sense to me. The current limit is far too limiting. Many corporations could benefit greatly from allowing wallet divisions to be created on demand, with no limit to the number of divisions.

Stocks cannot work in Eve. There is no public stock exchange and there is no financial regulation / law enforcement that can hold someone accountable for running off with the money / running a corporation into the ground / etc.

If stock is shared between several people in a corporation (for voting security) and someone quits Eve, there is no way to recover those stocks. They're locked away forever. It's a problem.

Remove corporation stocks. They serve no purpose and offer nothing positive to the game. Corporations should have another method to handle voting that adjusts for inactive accounts. Call it the Board of Directors or something like that, which can be a role that you can assign to anyone, even people not in your corporation.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#16 - 2012-05-23 05:39:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
Yeah being able to SEE which roles do what would be great... some of the names of the roles are somewhat esoteric and the newb corp CEO can easily be misled and this lead to a loss of money - not because he didn't set roles, but because CCP didn't explain them adequately.

Ah just read andrea above posted almost exact same thing, sry.

This particular feature outlines so well how CCP can be some completely inspiring and awesome and suck so much at the same time lol

.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#17 - 2012-05-23 09:29:24 UTC
+1 for fixing the truly awful roles system. Why does a POS gunner need to be able to unanchor or offline a control tower?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff