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Unified Winferno is now live - and it sucks as much it did on test server

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Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#321 - 2012-05-23 08:15:25 UTC
Styx Cyc wrote:
mxzf wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Charming. FYI I've been at CCP since August of last year, and in my current position for 1 month. Also, there's not a game in the world that doesn't ship/release with bugs. If you don't have an understanding of QA process and software lifecycle I would thank you to keep your opinions and conjecture on the matter to yourself.


This is the kind of thing that bothers me the most. I do understand QA and software lifecycle, my job is programming. And I know that shrugging and saying "Well, everything has bugs to begin with, it's still ready to sell to people" and not bothering to fix said bugs would get me fired. This kind of half-assed attempt at getting things working before pushing them to master is just disgusting.

I honestly like the idea behind the new UI, it's a nice idea and looks decent. But the implementation, especially breaking all current functionality with it, is utter crap. You did have a decent idea here CCP, but you completely screwed it up by ignoring all the responses from players and just shrugging them off. We spent over a month trying to give you feedback, but you simply ignored it. That doesn't sound like you care about making a good game, it sounds like you care about hitting a deadline and nothing else at all.


As a programmer then you would also know there is something known as Resistance to Change. While I agree some people have valid gripes about the new UI, a lot of it just seem to be complaining for the sake of it, specially when people outright tell you "I will never get used to it!!!!!11111", and the new UI is barely 24 hours old.

Been there done that.


You don't get resistance to good change, just change that takes away from the user experience and doesn't add to it. Its also about listening to the end user feedback and managing expectations, triple fail on CCP's part (with the new UI)


Styx Cyc
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#322 - 2012-05-23 08:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Styx Cyc
Talon SilverHawk wrote:

You don't get resistance to good change, just change that takes away from the user experience and doesn't add to it. Its also about listening to the end user feedback and managing expectations, triple fail on CCP's part (with the new UI)




There will always be resistance to change. Specially when a userbase has been doing things a certain way for a large number of years.

As for not listening, with that I agree.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#323 - 2012-05-23 08:20:27 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Styx Cyc wrote:
mxzf wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Charming. FYI I've been at CCP since August of last year, and in my current position for 1 month. Also, there's not a game in the world that doesn't ship/release with bugs. If you don't have an understanding of QA process and software lifecycle I would thank you to keep your opinions and conjecture on the matter to yourself.


This is the kind of thing that bothers me the most. I do understand QA and software lifecycle, my job is programming. And I know that shrugging and saying "Well, everything has bugs to begin with, it's still ready to sell to people" and not bothering to fix said bugs would get me fired. This kind of half-assed attempt at getting things working before pushing them to master is just disgusting.

I honestly like the idea behind the new UI, it's a nice idea and looks decent. But the implementation, especially breaking all current functionality with it, is utter crap. You did have a decent idea here CCP, but you completely screwed it up by ignoring all the responses from players and just shrugging them off. We spent over a month trying to give you feedback, but you simply ignored it. That doesn't sound like you care about making a good game, it sounds like you care about hitting a deadline and nothing else at all.


As a programmer then you would also know there is something known as Resistance to Change. While I agree some people have valid gripes about the new UI, a lot of it just seem to be complaining for the sake of it, specially when people outright tell you "I will never get used to it!!!!!11111", and the new UI is barely 24 hours old.

Been there done that.


You don't get resistance to good change, just change that takes away from the user experience and doesn't add to it. Its also about listening to the end user feedback and managing expectations, triple fail on CCP's part (with the new UI)




And yet people still buy Microsoft products..........

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Jajas Helper
#324 - 2012-05-23 08:46:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jajas Helper
Styx Cyc wrote:
So much anger, lol.

I have used the new UI, and again I can't see what the fuss is all about. I did a few trade and hauling runs and a mission, and took me the exact same amount of time and effort than with the old UI.

Now, if you are gonna end with a severe case of the proverbial "silica in your female genitalia" just because someone doesn't seem to have as much issue with the new UI as you do, maybe it is you who should go play something else and calm down, specially since you seem to be the one who can't figure things out, so maybe Diablo is more suitable to you.



let me repeat the problem here: "took me the exact same amount of time and effort than with the old UI"

so you agree here that ccp wasted a shitton of effort on this unified window without showing any progress or making life easier, things faster. While at the same time making it worse for people who do pos things ( with 100+ mods, cargoholds- cluttering the unified window), mining is a huge pain in the as awell, i'm sure there are other things that now are more annoying aswell...

So, thank you, for agreeing with us, the expansion added nothing to playerbase, and made it worse for people who are now beeing forced to look at/load cargo containers that they never had to use before this patch.

Ohyah, everyone who is going on about "shitf+click to open new windows, the system works great like that" should realise that this is a way to reproduce the old system. So I would like to thank those people aswell for agreeing with us that the old system was easier to use, why else are you using the shift+click methode in this new and amazing window?

Bottom line: the new system added no faster and easier organization, and in most cases it made it all worse.

Inferno do _stuff _with _stuff _to imitate the _stuff _you could do faster with the old stuff

-stuff-
knulla
Doomheim
#325 - 2012-05-23 08:48:14 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Styx Cyc wrote:
mxzf wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Charming. FYI I've been at CCP since August of last year, and in my current position for 1 month. Also, there's not a game in the world that doesn't ship/release with bugs. If you don't have an understanding of QA process and software lifecycle I would thank you to keep your opinions and conjecture on the matter to yourself.


This is the kind of thing that bothers me the most. I do understand QA and software lifecycle, my job is programming. And I know that shrugging and saying "Well, everything has bugs to begin with, it's still ready to sell to people" and not bothering to fix said bugs would get me fired. This kind of half-assed attempt at getting things working before pushing them to master is just disgusting.

I honestly like the idea behind the new UI, it's a nice idea and looks decent. But the implementation, especially breaking all current functionality with it, is utter crap. You did have a decent idea here CCP, but you completely screwed it up by ignoring all the responses from players and just shrugging them off. We spent over a month trying to give you feedback, but you simply ignored it. That doesn't sound like you care about making a good game, it sounds like you care about hitting a deadline and nothing else at all.


As a programmer then you would also know there is something known as Resistance to Change. While I agree some people have valid gripes about the new UI, a lot of it just seem to be complaining for the sake of it, specially when people outright tell you "I will never get used to it!!!!!11111", and the new UI is barely 24 hours old.

Been there done that.


You don't get resistance to good change, just change that takes away from the user experience and doesn't add to it. Its also about listening to the end user feedback and managing expectations, triple fail on CCP's part (with the new UI)




That is not true at all, people are known to resist what is good for them all the time.

 [u]Malice Redeemer[/u] - "Post if you are unsubing over the new inventory"  Posted: 2012.05.23 01:39

    lol
Di Mulle
#326 - 2012-05-23 08:53:02 UTC
knulla wrote:


That is not true at all, people are known to resist what is good for them all the time.


It is true.

Just another thing is also true, you are making a classic logical mistake, by assuming "all whats is resisted is good".
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#327 - 2012-05-23 09:03:11 UTC
I think a big part of this is that fact that it was tested for some weeks on the test server and much feedback was given and seems to have been ignored. The new inventory isn't unusable but needs quite a bit of work to make it worthy of full release on the live server and a lot of the issues that we're seeing could have been ironed out before Inferno and people aren't happy about not being heard when they provided feedback.

I'm getting used to the new UI but it's still got a way to go before it's smooth and allows us to do things that we could with the old multiple windows system. One feature I'd like is to be able to open up hangars and containers with just a double click from the left hand menu, I tried that last night but no go unfortunately.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
knulla
Doomheim
#328 - 2012-05-23 09:05:34 UTC
Di Mulle wrote:
knulla wrote:


That is not true at all, people are known to resist what is good for them all the time.


It is true.

Just another thing is also true, you are making a classic logical mistake, by assuming "all whats is resisted is good".



No I did not, I stated that people resist good things all the time and therefore he cannot use that as an argument.

I will let you know when I have an opinion on the UI, give me a week and I will have a good answer.

 [u]Malice Redeemer[/u] - "Post if you are unsubing over the new inventory"  Posted: 2012.05.23 01:39

    lol
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#329 - 2012-05-23 09:06:56 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Hey folks.

I just wanted to restate what we said in the Dev blog for the Unified Inventory that we wanted to get feedback from those that use SiSi in order to address problems that would occur. We intended on following heavily up on the feedback, doing as much as possible before launch as well as doing even further iterations and fixes in the upcoming release. Team Game of Drones is committed to a new methodology of using the principals of User Centered Design, where the User Experience of our players drives our design decisions.

Not only did we collect all feedback from the Forums, personal posts, Twitter comments and other sources but we took the issues many of you like Grey Stormshadow, Tippia and other have been pointing out and created a User Testing plan which we facilitated last week. In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found.

Once we had collected all the date from the tests we created stories and design updates which have either already been submitted to the next SiSi build, or we are actively working on or have been put into our backlog of work stories which we will address as priority stories before we start working on other features for next release.

I'm sorry if people that have given us feedback have felt we didn't listen in the past few days, I hope this post has re-instated that we actually listen and act accordingly and have simply been doing nothing else since the release of our blog. In the future, when we go through the feedback and create User Testing plans, we will make sure we reply to all the different discussion threads on the forums where we read the feedback, so that you all know that the feedback has been read, noted and addressed.

Thank you all for the feedback, you help us make better features and a special thanks to those that have gone above and beyond by bringing us very detailed and accurate constructive feedback, it does make a world of a difference for us.


Words.

We actually feel once again you guys don't give a crap about our feedback. From who do you guys take feedback from to think this feature was at a sufficient status/improvement for our gaming experience?

We're sure it's not from the community, despite how many words you guys can throw at us it's a lie. We told you this was a nice base for improvements but in need of serious work so this feature is not implemented half finished and bring us a worst game experience than older feature.

Now live on TQ and it's just completely impossible for me to have a decent time gaming (gaming is supposed to mean fun, right?), how much fun do you guys have wasting a whole expansion with a single feature?

Yes wasted, because I just can't play decently be at station trading/industry be at hauling or just set my assets split in several stations and actually in space is just awful to even find/select my ammo/load when usually was just drag/drop easily.
You might think it's easier because you're told to but it's not.

And I'm not having a good laugh at all.

brb
knulla
Doomheim
#330 - 2012-05-23 09:12:24 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
CCP Arrow wrote:
Hey folks.

I just wanted to restate what we said in the Dev blog for the Unified Inventory that we wanted to get feedback from those that use SiSi in order to address problems that would occur. We intended on following heavily up on the feedback, doing as much as possible before launch as well as doing even further iterations and fixes in the upcoming release. Team Game of Drones is committed to a new methodology of using the principals of User Centered Design, where the User Experience of our players drives our design decisions.

Not only did we collect all feedback from the Forums, personal posts, Twitter comments and other sources but we took the issues many of you like Grey Stormshadow, Tippia and other have been pointing out and created a User Testing plan which we facilitated last week. In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found.

Once we had collected all the date from the tests we created stories and design updates which have either already been submitted to the next SiSi build, or we are actively working on or have been put into our backlog of work stories which we will address as priority stories before we start working on other features for next release.

I'm sorry if people that have given us feedback have felt we didn't listen in the past few days, I hope this post has re-instated that we actually listen and act accordingly and have simply been doing nothing else since the release of our blog. In the future, when we go through the feedback and create User Testing plans, we will make sure we reply to all the different discussion threads on the forums where we read the feedback, so that you all know that the feedback has been read, noted and addressed.

Thank you all for the feedback, you help us make better features and a special thanks to those that have gone above and beyond by bringing us very detailed and accurate constructive feedback, it does make a world of a difference for us.


Words.

We actually feel once again you guys don't give a crap about our feedback. From who do you guys take feedback from to think this feature was at a sufficient status/improvement for our gaming experience?

We're sure it's not from the community, despite how many words you guys can throw at us it's a lie. We told you this was a nice base for improvements but in need of serious work so this feature is not implemented half finished and bring us a worst game experience than older feature.

Now live on TQ and it's just completely impossible for me to have a decent time gaming (gaming is supposed to mean fun, right?), how much fun do you guys have wasting a whole expansion with a single feature?

Yes wasted, because I just can't play decently be at station trading/industry be at hauling or just set my assets split in several stations and actually in space is just awful to even find/select my ammo/load when usually was just drag/drop easily.
You might think it's easier because you're told to but it's not.

And I'm not having a good laugh at all.



I did not give the new UI bad feedback, shoot me Roll

(and shoot every one else who think different than you and presume all EVE is your *****.)

 [u]Malice Redeemer[/u] - "Post if you are unsubing over the new inventory"  Posted: 2012.05.23 01:39

    lol
Jajas Helper
#331 - 2012-05-23 09:13:19 UTC
Rath Kelbore wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Seems like despite huge advantages with the new system, some small bits of functionality need to be added here and there. Top that off with a liberal helping of people complaining because they can't use their clunky work arounds anymore.

Pretty optimistic to call them bits small, but if that works for you who am I to say. I find the original idea of one window for everything and no real support for others being quite big "bit" myself.

This is in test server - yes. Dev blog is out - yes. Dev response to fundamental issues - none.

Read the entire comment thread... at least up to page 24 and you get the whole idea what this is about. I'm not whining here just to for whining. In fact I rather would do something else atm :) The details are all there.


I read it.

You can drag anything you like to the "tree" on the left to move things around.

Shift click on the tree to open another window if you prefer means there isn't much left to complain about. Most of the rest are niche cases or center around wanting to do things in a somewhat eccentric way. For the vast majority of routine tasks this is much easier, only for some things does it require an extra click or two.

I stand by my original statement.


Agreeing with ranger here. The new setup is better. God forbid you might have to change the way uou do something, especially when the new way is easiser.



wait you find it easier to manage a pos with 250mod on it? where i only use 40 of them 2-3 times a day, and it now loads everything everytime i open the cargo for it? I challenge you to find the Gun X around the pos, were i'm sitting at and trying to put ammo in it, also its super fun that now any posmodule opens up the default cargo tab instead of remembering that i work in tab 5... great fun;)


So please give us some cases where something goes faster then before... I'm looking forward to seeing the "vast majority of routines" you can sum up...

Another problem you're ignoring is this:
"only for some things does it require an extra click or two" BUT everything else has not reduced in the amount of clicks needed! That together with the obvious bugs - no window memory, loading every damn container in station(even if i dont want to know what is in the corp hangar- it still loads the things) or everything on grid when you're at a pos, even if you're not even in range of it...

It is not because you dont need to acces alot of corp assets per day that this is not effecting others.

And to close this, IF they had introduced this tree list and search profiles as an optional thing - integrated in the old system I would have loved it. And that is exactly what you will find in the feedback from the sisi tests. We aren't resisting change it is the fact that the entire thing is launch with more bugs then added functionality - and we are now being ****** in the arse with every session change, pos related action. If you can't see how putting a half ass "upgrade" ingame, with legit comments from customers, and not testing your own gamechanges properly is a big issue... then i would kindly ask you to stop posting.

Inferno do _stuff _with _stuff _to imitate the _stuff _you could do faster with the old stuff

-stuff-
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#332 - 2012-05-23 09:16:13 UTC
Coperation -> Memberlist -> [x] Online only: list of 2 personen.
Corpchat: ~10 Members Online.

Confusing as ****.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#333 - 2012-05-23 09:17:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
knulla wrote:
I did not give the new UI bad feedback, shoot me Roll

(and shoot every one else who think different than you and presume all EVE is your *****.)


Seems this post is about people who tested/used it and rightfully think their gaming experience is worst.

If you're that happy why are you trolling those not sharing your opinion?

Ho and by the way bring us all your uber enlightenment how great it is when you manage your pos mods, your reactions, several assets all over the place, dozens or hundreds of ships in same station etc etc.

Yes please enlight us of your tremendous and recognised uber greatness, because you know, everyone not thinking like you is dumb amirite?


Let's put it simple, usually you had to approach pos, open container/drag drop, tell us all how uber your super crap is now and how faster you're doing this stuff.

Also explain to us all, please, how do you even know witch pos module are you checking or witch reactor goes with "x" silo.

Just two uber examples how much easy and awesome gaming experience just became. You like it? -dig it, keep it.
I just want the option to roll back to something faster/easier to use than this "thing".

brb
knulla
Doomheim
#334 - 2012-05-23 09:18:56 UTC
l0rd carlos wrote:
Coperation -> Memberlist -> [x] Online only: list of 2 personen.
Corpchat: ~10 Members Online.

Confusing as ****.



Devastating bug indeed, yet I think you will survive, I bet you would rage quit over much worse years ago though Cool

Was that the final straw for you?

 [u]Malice Redeemer[/u] - "Post if you are unsubing over the new inventory"  Posted: 2012.05.23 01:39

    lol
Zenst
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#335 - 2012-05-23 09:19:47 UTC
knulla wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Styx Cyc wrote:
mxzf wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Charming. FYI I've been at CCP since August of last year, and in my current position for 1 month. Also, there's not a game in the world that doesn't ship/release with bugs. If you don't have an understanding of QA process and software lifecycle I would thank you to keep your opinions and conjecture on the matter to yourself.


This is the kind of thing that bothers me the most. I do understand QA and software lifecycle, my job is programming. And I know that shrugging and saying "Well, everything has bugs to begin with, it's still ready to sell to people" and not bothering to fix said bugs would get me fired. This kind of half-assed attempt at getting things working before pushing them to master is just disgusting.

I honestly like the idea behind the new UI, it's a nice idea and looks decent. But the implementation, especially breaking all current functionality with it, is utter crap. You did have a decent idea here CCP, but you completely screwed it up by ignoring all the responses from players and just shrugging them off. We spent over a month trying to give you feedback, but you simply ignored it. That doesn't sound like you care about making a good game, it sounds like you care about hitting a deadline and nothing else at all.


As a programmer then you would also know there is something known as Resistance to Change. While I agree some people have valid gripes about the new UI, a lot of it just seem to be complaining for the sake of it, specially when people outright tell you "I will never get used to it!!!!!11111", and the new UI is barely 24 hours old.

Been there done that.


You don't get resistance to good change, just change that takes away from the user experience and doesn't add to it. Its also about listening to the end user feedback and managing expectations, triple fail on CCP's part (with the new UI)




That is not true at all, people are known to resist what is good for them all the time.



Look - inventory pile of cak - missiles/eye candy - no arguements from anybody - see whats happening or are you also consumed by the Dunning–Kruger effect!


FYI Dunning–Kruger effect:
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.[1]

Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. As Kruger and Dunning conclude, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others"


Kruger and Dunning proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:

  • 1.tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
    • 2.fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
    3.fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;
    4.recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill, if they can be trained to substantially improve.




So when you say "people are known to resist what is good for them all the time." you may want to redefine what you deem is good as if I was one person in a crowd of people disagreeing I would perhaps step-back - take stock of things and re-evaluat things again as apposed to doing a psycological spazm that everybody hates change and cookie cutter that over all those responses. Bad enough with the test-server feedback cabal ignoreing all the same feedback prior to release, but nothing new there sadly :(. There is ignorance and arragance and CCP have managed to pull of both with this inventory change.
knulla
Doomheim
#336 - 2012-05-23 09:21:47 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
knulla wrote:
I did not give the new UI bad feedback, shoot me Roll

(and shoot every one else who think different than you and presume all EVE is your *****.)


Seems this post is about people who tested/used it and rightfully think their gaming experience is worst.

If you're that happy why are you trolling those not sharing your opinion?

Ho and by the way bring us all your uber enlightenment how great it is when you manage your pos mods, your reactions, several assets all over the place, dozens or hundreds of ships in same station etc etc.

Yes please enlight us of your tremendous and recognised uber greatness, because you know, everyone not thinking like you is dumb amirite?



take your "amirites" and shove them where the sun doesn't shine.

I tested it, and I did not mind it in fact I think it is better than what we have, I assume they will improve it also, but please keep ranting.


fool!

 [u]Malice Redeemer[/u] - "Post if you are unsubing over the new inventory"  Posted: 2012.05.23 01:39

    lol
knulla
Doomheim
#337 - 2012-05-23 09:24:03 UTC
Zenst wrote:
snip.



Take some xanax or valium and go to bed, it will all seem better tomorrow.

Or stay crazy.

 [u]Malice Redeemer[/u] - "Post if you are unsubing over the new inventory"  Posted: 2012.05.23 01:39

    lol
Malice Redeemer
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#338 - 2012-05-23 09:30:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Malice Redeemer
knulla wrote:
Zenst wrote:
snip.



Take some xanax or valium and go to bed, it will all seem better tomorrow.

Or stay crazy.


What you have to understand about a poster like this, is it is just acting out of fear. Fear of things they will likely never understand
knulla
Doomheim
#339 - 2012-05-23 09:33:57 UTC
Malice Redeemer wrote:
knulla wrote:
Zenst wrote:
snip.



Take some xanax or valium and go to bed, it will all seem better tomorrow.

Or stay crazy.


What you have to understand about a poster like this, is it is just acting out of fear. Fear of things they will likely never understand



That or autist.

Freaks are freaks, people going crazy like this on patch day needs to be shot, with a tranquilizer and stay a sleep for a few days before they can post on the forums, in a sensible manner.

 [u]Malice Redeemer[/u] - "Post if you are unsubing over the new inventory"  Posted: 2012.05.23 01:39

    lol
Jajas Helper
#340 - 2012-05-23 09:34:37 UTC
non judgement wrote:
Malice Redeemer wrote:
keep laughing when no one is playing
You know that some people unsubbed because of the new font?
To me, this is the same kind of thing.

After all, it's just the inventory.

How you fly ships and shoot other people in the game hasn't changed at all.

I know life can be hard sometimes. If you really want to be angry, there are more serious things to get angry about in life than this.



SO people do more then flying ships and/to shoot people. These things are now taking more time, are unorganized and overall have gotten worse and tedious. We are now having less time to fly ships and/or shoot people and are having even less fun while doing what was already tedious internetspacebusiness. But atleast you are seeing how "just the inventory" is making the game unplayable for people who do other things then shooting stuff.

Life can be hard sometimes, and i'll accept that "hardness", if that was the intention of this 'upgrade".
Until then, i'll keep believing ccp actually wanted to make our lives easier, but again, ****** it up.... while we all knew this was not going to work before it actually went live.

So I'll be waiting for the CCP, HTFU news statement, and accept that they are indeed trying to make it harder to do simple things in their game.

BTW, if they dont improve the inventory, i myself have 3 account which i will drop because the industry i run on those is now taking ALOT more time then before, handling pos jobs is even more tedious then before and I could save myself 3 subs a month and do other things to make isk with my main ( instead of ******* around with the industry side).

Industry was already tedious to the point where it drove people away from it, this is just the drop. So troll away, but this 'upgrade' was half baked, and forced on us while we all knew it was not finished/useable and was going to fail.

Inferno do _stuff _with _stuff _to imitate the _stuff _you could do faster with the old stuff

-stuff-