Intergalactic Summit

You are a Pedophile!

Damn it, Thessalonia, will you stop making me laugh? It keeps ruining my anti-Sansha bias.

But on the topic at hand... I've been around a bit. Used to work for the Angel Cartel, never got directly involved with the slave trading side there, but I saw it. I've also seen Blooder slaving rings (or what's left of them after I melt their defences), and I've helped to run a psuedo-legitimate Holding in lowsec, and of course I've seen more than a few Holdings in the Empire and Kingdom - including that of my own family, that I now run.

The main thing that I have drawn from all that is that 'slavery' is a mutable term. Different people, different cultures, different societies mean different things by it. Sometimes those terms can get mixed up. Quite often those different meanings come from different views of the same thing. The Amarrians view slavery as a religious institution and a way of enlightening the universe - the Minmatar view tends to be that it's an abomination and attempt to destroy them as a people. Different people, different meanings, same term.

tl;dr: ITT, semantics at work.

Mr Aramaus' definition of slavery seems like a very Gallentean one. Kink-laden and dubious in morality. Not enormously surprising, since high ethical standards are not often a huge priority in the capsuleer community, but not much of an excuse. Nonconsensual sex is pretty high on the list of things that Should Not Be Done, by anyone's standards. If you really thought to find approval from Amarrian society... well, I'm insulted.

Ms. Tyrathlion, I will assume that means that my humour implants are functioning at 100% efficiency then. Thank you for participating in my test.

Did that help?

I just assumed you believed the Amarr version of slavery was righteous, like most of your people, but adding sex to forcing men and women to do whatever you command, makes it disgusting and vile. That's the message I'm getting from most of these Amarrians.

If that's not the case, and you actually believe that all forms of slavery, sexual in nature or not, are wrong... then I would be glad to hear your thoughts and opinions. You're one of the 2 or 3 people who have responded to this channel with any intelligent input.

Oh and "past mistakes" ?? Unless I'm very out of the loop in intergalactic happenings, the last I remember, the Amarr were still enslaving Minmatar around the cluster.

That would fall under the heading of 'delusions of traditionalists'. It didn't work the first time, I don't see anything changing by trying it again now. For the record, I mostly hold the Republic responsible for the current war, although I won't say that the Empire has done nothing to contribute. Both seem quite happy with the current state of affairs. My rants about the Empyrean war are not the topic on hand, however.

Let me correct you - the best way I would describe myself is anti-emancipation. Not quite the same thing as pro-slavery. Slavery as a tool is badly misused, misunderstood and misrepresented. I'm sure that some people do genuinely believe that they're doing the right thing. Some Holders mistreat their slaves. Some believe that slavery is a religious calling. These three attributes do not necessarily imply one another, but nor are they mutually exclusive - if that makes sense.

But mass emancipation is not the way forward, and it would do considerably more harm than good to everyone concerned, not least the former slaves. I'm not going to pretend that every slave has a happy life right now. My gut tells me that that is quite possibly the exception rather than the rule. But there is no benefit in owning a slave that is not fed and rested and healthy. Could the Republic guaruntee that for all the billions of people that would suddenly be dumped upon them? Not likely. Meanwhile, the Empire and Kingdom would collapse as a massive chunk of the society and economic foundation was removed.

So no, I don't think emancipation is a good idea. Nor do I think that slavery is inherently a bad one. I own two estates, and a fairly significant number of slaves - and I understand that it is my duty and responsibility to ensure that every one of them is cared for and at least content, if not happy. The common conception is that slavery is a way of getting free labour, when in truth, it simply means that you become responsible for all their costs of living, and their consequent well-being. A slave is a human being, and should be treated as such.

If a Holder (I use the term loosely) is unable to provide for their slaves, then clearly something is wrong, and those slaves should be moved on to somewhere that they can be cared for. This is the inherent price; a slave does not have as much freedom as a normal individual, but they gain some certainty as to their future. As capsuleers, we stand apart - but how many baseliners really have the freedom to go and do and be what they wish? How many wish for some kind of certainty? I'm not proposing mass enslavement, merely pointing out that as a theoretical proposition, slavery is not as bad as it might seem.

The problem comes when people abuse their power. When doesn't it? Sexual abuse of a slave falls into that category; it amounts to stripping away their existence as a person, reducing them to a thing, a toy. A slave maintains their sense of self and the rights of a person because we, the owners, do not take it away. We can. We have that power. But just because one can, doesn't mean that one should.

I cannot speak for those who consider slavery to be a religious institution. Here in the Khanid Kingdom, although we sometimes pretend otherwise, slavery tends to be prosaic and secular. But that core ideal, that there is an unspoken pact between the owned and the owner that should not be broken, is universal. Not everyone adheres to it; the Blood Raiders do not, because to them, a slave is an animal, a being to be worked and drained of blood. The Cartel does not (although some groups are better than others), as to them, a slave is a tool and a piece of property, a source of money or a tangible investment. But here, in the civilised world, that pact should hold.

The reason why it has such a bad name is that some people ignore it.

Entertaining and creative trolling is a job best left to professionals. However, due to the fact that I see some potential here and the number of responses generated I rate this effort at 4/10. Sub-optimal to be sure but, with some polish and hard work Pilot Aramaus could move up to the semi-pro ranks fairly quickly. Keep trying!

Also, I agree with what Pilot Starfire said.

Oh Amarr live in a perpetual state of self imposed denial. Not something I can forgive, if only pity. They fail to understand that to be a true master of the populace, enforced servitude and eventual softening up leads to a weak work force.

But this Gallente is egocentric despotism. Something even I can't respect

Or choose to acknowledge. All I see is another target to add to the list

I missed this. You are human, genetically. You have a few steps forward in the direction that I personally believe all of humanity is going to go, in terms of the infomoph. You are not a god. You are not even a demi-god. As far as the universe is concerned, you are a piece of dust, momentarily floating around, gone in the blink of an eye, 'immortal' or no.

My principle concern is to help humanity into this next step of evolution without them becoming like you. The capsuleer project has been, for the most part, an absolutely failure in terms of bringing us to that step in as peaceful a manner as possible.

If you were truly post-human, you wouldn't have any need to force yourself on the unwilling.

Enjoy your time amongst the stars.

If I was interested in my own gender, your gluteus maximus would not be safe, Val.

It has been a slow news cycle. Being first among the irrelevant and forgettable is still forgettable irrelevance.