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Training curve too steep. Too harsh a timesink.
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Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2012-05-22 10:16:47 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
I appreciate the replies.

However saying that a player with T1 weaps stands a chance in low/nullsec is absurd.

T1 weaps with the best faction ammo do maybe 50 dmg.

T2 cannons do 450 dmg

How the hell is the T1 going to survive? They aren't.


Hi maybe you should look at my alliance's history of murdering veterans in faction fit HACs with T1 fitted Rifters that cost less than our enemies' ammo

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#62 - 2012-05-22 10:17:39 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Carniferous wrote:
I appreciate the replies.

However saying that a player with T1 weaps stands a chance in low/nullsec is absurd.

T1 weaps with the best faction ammo do maybe 50 dmg.

T2 cannons do 450 dmg

How the hell is the T1 going to survive? They aren't.


What...?

You seriously know nothing about .... well nothing hey.

Mind elaborating your thinking there... or how you come to that conclusion since now you just look like a troll, which I probly fell for.


Well let's see genius. Do the math.

Whats 450 MINUS 50?

That's the amount of damage a T2 eclipses a T1 weapon by.

Care to guess who wins the fight?

Dude, what?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#63 - 2012-05-22 10:17:48 UTC
Carniferous wrote:

Note I did not say training was at all intellectually challenging. In fact it's the opposite. I'd say most people would find waiting 30 days for a skill to finish training, as stupid. It's funny they are called skills, when no skill is required at all to obtain them., lol.


Confirming that skill grinding in any other MMO is in fact "intellectually challenging" activity. Been there, done that and felt quite "intellectually challenged" in the process.

Carniferous wrote:

You CANNOT pvp with t1 weapons. Don't be ridiculous.

What?....Shocked....Lol

Carniferous wrote:

Slamming your head against the wall would be more exciting.

Actually you should try that. It's a known remedy for people with your....uhm....condition.



Shitpoasting aside, he is for 90% trolling but it doesn't change the fact that there are people, who actually think like that. Met them, talked to them, felt....quite "intellectually challenged" in the process.Lol
Carniferous
ATLANTIS MINING AND TRADING INC.
#64 - 2012-05-22 10:18:10 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Carniferous wrote:
I appreciate the replies.

However saying that a player with T1 weaps stands a chance in low/nullsec is absurd.

T1 weaps with the best faction ammo do maybe 50 dmg.

T2 cannons do 450 dmg

How the hell is the T1 going to survive? They aren't.


Hi maybe you should look at my alliance's history of murdering veterans in faction fit HACs with T1 fitted Rifters that cost less than our enemies' ammo


Then you are pvp'ing against terrabad players.
BombDust
Doomheim
#65 - 2012-05-22 10:18:56 UTC
EVE is one of the last MMOs that offers a challange and requires some brain work.
Is almost like a book, it the begining is is a struggle but the more pages you turn the better it becomes, at the end of the book you can´t stop reading. I fully support this game design. CPP have balls, and in the long turn it will pay off.
Carniferous
ATLANTIS MINING AND TRADING INC.
#66 - 2012-05-22 10:19:55 UTC
BombDust wrote:
CPP have balls, and in the long turn it will pay off.


Hasn't this game been out over 9 years already? Pretty sure if it was going to pay off, it would have already.
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#67 - 2012-05-22 10:21:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Samillian
Carniferous wrote:
I appreciate the replies.

However saying that a player with T1 weaps stands a chance in low/nullsec is absurd.

T1 weaps with the best faction ammo do maybe 50 dmg.

T2 cannons do 450 dmg

How the hell is the T1 going to survive? They aren't.



What weapons are you comparing? I don't know of a single weapon system in EvE that has that kind of disparity between T1 and T2 damage even with low skills and I can and have used every sub cap based weapon system in this game. Are you sure your not comparing the damage output of a T1 small weapon system to that of a T2 medium weapon system as that sort of damage gap would indicate that type of error.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#68 - 2012-05-22 10:21:52 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
BombDust wrote:
CPP have balls, and in the long turn it will pay off.


Hasn't this game been out over 9 years already? Pretty sure if it was going to pay off, it would have already.

When I started playing, they had a staff of 27 people, and 7,000 on a weekend afternoon made people freak out.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2012-05-22 10:25:34 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I totally agree with the OP. I think CCP absolutely should sell skillpoints directly for money. But through direct transaction only, no PLEX; we don't want the poors to be able to elevate themselves to the same capability that the nobles possess.


yeah it's not like people went into a frothing rage when Soundwave and Diagoras had a friendly exchange in an internal newsletter about non-vanity "premium" items

lol

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Evilmincer IV
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2012-05-22 10:28:19 UTC
_-.: .-_
.'-/ _:-;_ \- .
/_'/__ |__ '._'\
'__(___.)___ )_ '
(__(___ )___ )__)
.__(___.(__ )_ .
\__\__ )__ /__/
-__\ _(_ -_.
\ _\_)./_/
\_.|_./
|_|_|
_
[_]

Broken Light Bulk Alert.


Three types of people who should NOT PLAY.
Lazy
Stupid
TROLLLLS
Try figuring out why the platypus is what it is.  Try figuring out why the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.  Try figuring out what set everything in motion. Once you have all the answers.CALL SOMEONE WHO GIVES A POOP
Naburi NasNaburi
Doomheim
#71 - 2012-05-22 10:32:01 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
I appreciate the replies.

However saying that a player with T1 weaps stands a chance in low/nullsec is absurd.

T1 weaps with the best faction ammo do maybe 50 dmg.

T2 cannons do 450 dmg

How the hell is the T1 going to survive? They aren't.


I just had to take a look at my tournament frig...
Rifter with only meta1 mods/guns + non faction ammo. 86.6 dps.
And I am sure I could have tickled a bit more out of it.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2012-05-22 10:32:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Carniferous wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Carniferous wrote:
I appreciate the replies.

However saying that a player with T1 weaps stands a chance in low/nullsec is absurd.

T1 weaps with the best faction ammo do maybe 50 dmg.

T2 cannons do 450 dmg

How the hell is the T1 going to survive? They aren't.


What...?

You seriously know nothing about .... well nothing hey.

Mind elaborating your thinking there... or how you come to that conclusion since now you just look like a troll, which I probly fell for.


Well let's see genius. Do the math.

Whats 450 MINUS 50?

That's the amount of damage a T2 eclipses a T1 weapon by.

Care to guess who wins the fight?

--Here grab your twig and let's fight. Don't worry I only have a machine gun. I'm sure you'll win.--


That not what you said... you said t1 guns do 50 damage, t2 does 450.... not t1 does 50 less than 450

Once again, a competent pilot with t1 guns can beat a pilot flying with t2 gear. It seems you can't accept that as a possibility.

ahem.. T1 guns.. on my harby..

http://kane.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9977480

t1 guns on my Prophecy

http://kane.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9977504


I got many more as I learned the game. Just because you refuse to accept it is possible, does not mean it is not. Try undocking and stop being scared that the pilot you face might have better equipment than you. It does not mean he knows how to use it properly.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Evilmincer IV
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2012-05-22 10:33:32 UTC
Scuse me...

Have we forgot about the Goonswarm Tactics.
Hundreds of disposable t1 fitted rifters to take out a carrier?

It's not impossible.
(that's if you are in a well organized Alliance)
Try figuring out why the platypus is what it is.  Try figuring out why the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.  Try figuring out what set everything in motion. Once you have all the answers.CALL SOMEONE WHO GIVES A POOP
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#74 - 2012-05-22 10:35:47 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Carniferous wrote:
I appreciate the replies.

However saying that a player with T1 weaps stands a chance in low/nullsec is absurd.

T1 weaps with the best faction ammo do maybe 50 dmg.

T2 cannons do 450 dmg

How the hell is the T1 going to survive? They aren't.


What...?

You seriously know nothing about .... well nothing hey.

Mind elaborating your thinking there... or how you come to that conclusion since now you just look like a troll, which I probly fell for.


Well let's see genius. Do the math.

Whats 450 MINUS 50?

That's the amount of damage a T2 eclipses a T1 weapon by.

Care to guess who wins the fight?

--Here grab your twig and let's fight. Don't worry I only have a machine gun. I'm sure you'll win.--



This thread is giving me deja vu.

Here; read this. it'll save everyone a lot of time typing out the exact same arguments all over again.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Carniferous
ATLANTIS MINING AND TRADING INC.
#75 - 2012-05-22 10:39:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Carniferous
Rofl.. That guys post has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Other than the skill decay part.

I'm done with this thread.

If you guys can't understand that rookie entry into this game in 2012 IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE, I don't know what to tell you.

Numbers will just continue to dwindle. Which will suck, because I actually like this game.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#76 - 2012-05-22 10:40:42 UTC
My tip is to uninstall and go back to some game where you can do the awesome everchanging grind for levels.

Once you are high level you join an awesome guild and start the everchanging and challanging grind for the weekly raids.

Then come back here and tell us how awesome it is to do the same over and over on your limited character.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#77 - 2012-05-22 10:43:43 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
Serge Bastana wrote:
There is a lot of information to take in to begin with, I'm still learning things after being in the game for 3 years, and I like that. I've been helping new players get into the game and through the learning curve, some are really enjoying it, some had slpped away because EVE just probably isn't for them.

I liked the fact that you don't have to mindlessly grind for skills when I started playing and was able to take in a lot, but that's just me. Some people need that extra bit of help to pick up some of the concepts, which is why I think more new players would benefit from having some older players around to point them in the right direction and help them out. Some will stick around, some won't.


Again the "sticking around" you are referring to is just waiting around for skills to finish training. How exciting....

No wonder this game only has like 40k people on at any given moment. I'm not saying to make the game carebear friendly. In fact make it the opposite. Make earning skills feel like you actually accomplished something.


The fact that you even started this thread says you are either a very bored troll, or you actually are as stupid as you seem. In either case, this is not WoW, or Guild Wars or any of the other "Grind fest" games. In those games you HAVE to be online in order to progress anywhere, whereas the beauty of EVE is that you don't.

The fun starts in here, when someone who has done nothing but AFK train for 4 months, hops in to his PLEX bought Golem, makes one wrong move and loses a multi billion ISK ship. You see, the point of EVE's training is that while you are waiting for those skills to train, you go out and you learn how to pilot the ship you have. You take it in stages, first become the best damn frig pilot you can be, then Cruiser, Battle cruiser and so on.

All of this takes time, patience and the ability to learn. Sadly this is something the instant gratification crowd will never be comfortable with. It doesn't make EVE wrong, or a bad game, it makes her different. And if you don't like the differences, then sod off, you whiny little pansy.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#78 - 2012-05-22 10:46:06 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
So I've tried to get a few friends into the game, and it always fails as the training curve in this game is far too steep for the average player.

Heck I even stopped playing for a year because it seemed like I could never get my skills where I wanted them due to long training times.

I'm still trying to figure out the point of the training system from a balancing perspective. I get the business reason for making players wait long periods of time. I just don't get the gameplay reason.

Theoretically anyone can get access to great weapons and ships if they simply know how to click the train now button, and buy training books.

Can't really see how this is working as intended. I bet CCP could get more players if they altered the training system to make it more new player friendly.

Would love to see a response other than "THIS IS BORING, why do I have to wait 2 months in order for training to be done?" from my friends.




There's not a single reasonable one. Nothing that you might or might not achieve in Eve is related to the time you spent playing or training.

All you need is force multipliers where the number of skills is completely and utterly useless: Multibox, buy plex/characters and use 15/20 Drakes or 15/20 Hulks or whatever in numbers.
Skills? -they don't really matter after you've got the 10M regular base to properly fly and fit battle cruisers for pvp and a regular fit BS to endlessly farm lvl 4's/incursions with your army of alts for isk.

This is why, business nothing else dude, milky cow.

Lol

brb
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#79 - 2012-05-22 10:47:10 UTC
No, it really isn't.

What's harsh is the kind of skill plan you come up with if you listen to the morons in NPC/newbie chats who proclaim that without T2 and all-V skills, you're doooooomed. Those really are the worst kind of griefers EVE has to offer.

I always present this plan as a suggestion for how to do a surprising amount of damage at an early age. Please note the timeframes and clone costs involved: at one month and with a 65k ISK clone, you're dipping your toes in cruiser and BC combat and have a solid foundation for further specialisation.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2012-05-22 10:48:44 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
Rofl.. That guys post has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Other than the skill decay part.

I'm done with this thread.

If you guys can't understand that rookie entry into this game in 2012 IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE, I don't know what to tell you.

Numbers will just continue to dwindle. Which will suck, because I actually like this game.


The logical thing to do since my reply, is flawless. Learn the game before you compare yourself as being useless when you were a rookie to somebody like me when I was a rookie, your only useless if you choose to be. I was far from useless.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk