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Training curve too steep. Too harsh a timesink.
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Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#21 - 2012-05-22 09:39:04 UTC
I think we've reached the essence of the post, sitting and waiting for skills to train and not being able to to do it now, now, now. When I set a long skill to train I always love to just sit in station, spinning my ship watching that little box blink for 20+ days, it's so very thrilling...oh wait. no, what I do is undock and go do things that are actually game play, making some isk perhaps, or heading out into low or null sec, perhaps throwing something in the lab slot to build or research, all kinds of things.

If all they're doing is sitting and watching the kettle boil, then yes, it will be mind numbingly dull. If they actually go out and get some experience in the game then by the time that skill has trained they'll understand the game that much better and may have some laughs and stories to share, you never know.

And how many newbies have 30 day skills to train?

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Naburi NasNaburi
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-05-22 09:40:26 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
I've been doing fine with T1 weapons.

Why?

Because believe it or not, other people use T1 weapons too!


Soooo damn true.
Heck I even fit some T1 stuff still.. why ? Cause some of my fittings are so tight that nothing else would fit.
Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
D0GS OF WAR
#23 - 2012-05-22 09:40:38 UTC
I have some sympathy with the OP, being a new player myself. That being said, the game would be far less attractive to me if any form of xp grinding was introduced.

The character bazaar offers entry level players the opportunity to purchase a highly skilled character, even if the player lacks the game knowledge to fly that characters' ships well.

I had wondered if a scheme to purchase skill points for historical subscription (pre game entry and with strict limitations) would be an option so that skill points could be deployed on your own character, rather than a second hand one. However, I can also see the objections to this possibility too, namely "biggest wallet" syndrome.
Naburi NasNaburi
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-05-22 09:41:37 UTC
Carniferous wrote:


You CANNOT pvp with t1 weapons. Don't be ridiculous.


My alt Char has 1.2 mil SP and has been outlaw since she was 5 days old.
Rifter + T1 guns + mods.. you would be surprised.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-05-22 09:42:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
Carniferous wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
I

If you can't find anything interesting for you to do in EVE, if the only thing you are after is seeing progress in the form of level ups and finished skills and phat lewt, then EVE is probably not the game for you. Which is not a bad thing.


Dude anyone with more than 3 braincells would find waiting 35 days for a skill to finish training to be mind numbingly boring. Especially when they can only use t1 ships, weapons, and mining equipment.


Yes. That's why you're supposed to do other fun stuff while you're waiting for your skills to train. If you want to get to "max level" and "end game" and only then start actually playing, once again, EVE will disappoint you. There is no end game - or rather, the end game begins the moment you create your account.

Quote:
Playing the game with T1 weapons is not playing the game. Slamming your head against the wall would be more exciting.


I, after nearly three years of playing, can't use any TII weapon system. I tried both, and I would say EVE is slightly more exciting. Actually many people find combat in cheap ships that much more fun, because you don't have to worry so much about making money to replace your losses.
Carniferous
ATLANTIS MINING AND TRADING INC.
#26 - 2012-05-22 09:43:49 UTC
To those saying "just buy a character".

You are missing the point. I don't want anything given to players on a silver platter.

I want to actually EARN things, and feel a sense of accomplishment. Clicking a train now button and then logging back on in a month is not my idea of earning anything. In fact it's the opposite.
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-05-22 09:44:03 UTC
Carniferous wrote:

You CANNOT pvp with t1 weapons. Don't be ridiculous.


Ok, I'm at the point where I think you're trolling.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-05-22 09:44:31 UTC
Carniferous wrote:

And what did you do exactly for those 8 months? Sit in trade chat? Kill low level npc rats in high sec?

You CANNOT pvp with t1 weapons. Don't be ridiculous.

you'r so funny! keep posting! Lol

seriously, i trained fist t2 weapon (heavy missiles) after 1 year of game. Simply didn't need it. And now, having skills for "all T2" i still use T1 gear sometime. Just because of fitting requirements and market. T2 gear isn't button "i WIN". Sorry if you can't understand this fact.

Should you read module info for any gun or turret once you wouldn't make such stupid statements.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Gallinari
PJ Ind.
#29 - 2012-05-22 09:45:16 UTC
Its not too hard, not even close! The problem is other games baby you so much that when you play a game like EVE it makes you think to actually learn something. Its no different than learning anything else in life, like playing guitar, driving a motorcycle or learning chess. Stop crying.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#30 - 2012-05-22 09:45:42 UTC
People should stop thinking inside the box of leveling games.

This isn't a game where you can grind a few kills and PING, level up. But this isn't a game either where your job or task is set in stone due to the race you chose. You aren't a tank or a healer or a Dps, here you can be whatever you want with any char.

I always say to people to not aim for the big ships right away. There is more to train than just the ship skill. Unless you like flying pinata's ofcourse.

Someone who trained a frigate and knows how to use and fit it is far more dangerous than the guy who trained up to that shiny battleship sraight away without thinking about supportskills etc.
Also the idiotic thinking that you need a massive amount of SP to be of use or to be able to achieve anything is more WoW thinking.
In EVE you can have a significant impact in a T1 frigate with a point fitted on it.

All in all, leave the WoW mentality and line of thinking at the door. Those don't work here.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#31 - 2012-05-22 09:47:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Killer Gandry
Carniferous wrote:

You CANNOT pvp with t1 weapons. Don't be ridiculous.


And that is the kind of mindset that makes you limit yourself more than the game is limiting you.
Cats'Meow
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-05-22 09:47:55 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
To those saying "just buy a character".

You are missing the point. I don't want anything given to players on a silver platter.

I want to actually EARN things, and feel a sense of accomplishment. Clicking a train now button and then logging back on in a month is not my idea of earning anything. In fact it's the opposite.


Sooo you feel like you only accomplish something when you earn Skillpoints ?
Sorry to burst your tiny bubble... SP mean NOTHING.
Carniferous
ATLANTIS MINING AND TRADING INC.
#33 - 2012-05-22 09:48:43 UTC
What about a system where you have to take a test in order to obtain a certain skill?

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#34 - 2012-05-22 09:49:49 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
Serge Bastana wrote:
There is a lot of information to take in to begin with, I'm still learning things after being in the game for 3 years, and I like that. I've been helping new players get into the game and through the learning curve, some are really enjoying it, some had slpped away because EVE just probably isn't for them.

I liked the fact that you don't have to mindlessly grind for skills when I started playing and was able to take in a lot, but that's just me. Some people need that extra bit of help to pick up some of the concepts, which is why I think more new players would benefit from having some older players around to point them in the right direction and help them out. Some will stick around, some won't.


Again the "sticking around" you are referring to is just waiting around for skills to finish training. How exciting....

No wonder this game only has like 40k people on at any given moment. I'm not saying to make the game carebear friendly. In fact make it the opposite. Make earning skills feel like you actually accomplished something.


Option #1: "stick around" while you wait for some skill to finish

Option #2: Undock and play the game with the skills you have right now. IIRC, the training plan for a basic PvP rifter is about 36 hours (less time than it should take for you to do all the tutorials). EVE isn't like WoW; it's not a game that only begins when you're level 80.

Focusing on what you can't do rather than what you can will be a never-ending trail of grief for you, because it will take a couple of decades to train every skill. Stop worrying that you don't have Medium Autocannon Specialisation V and find out what you can accomplish with Medium Autocannons 4.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-05-22 09:49:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Carniferous wrote:


And what did you do exactly for those 8 months? Sit in trade chat? Kill low level npc rats in high sec?

You CANNOT pvp with t1 weapons. Don't be ridiculous.


It is this kind of thinking, that makes me think you do not want to try anything unless you have all the good stuff.

I have been doing what I do now since day 5 of my character. I have more kills than some 2003 players out in low sec/0.0 and i have been playing for a year and half now.

You can easily kill things without the need of t2 items. T2 items does not win you fights, how to use your ship and the items you have to your advantage, wins you fights.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#36 - 2012-05-22 09:50:11 UTC
And just a sidenote:
Of the 100+ mill SP an oldbee has. Howmany do you think are relevant towards the ship he is flying at that moment?

He only has more to choose from. He has more specialisations. Yet he uses only 1 at a time. So start with specialisations and you will notice quit a difference in fairly short time.
Kurama Bingyi
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-05-22 09:50:49 UTC
It took me a while to get a handle on how to train my character, and I still don't fully know how to focus my character; but I don't let that discourage or intimidate me. This is still my most favorite Sci-Fi MMO in the market and I wouldn't give it up for anything.

"Nay," responded Kurama Bingyi, "to crush your enemies, to see them fall at your feet - to take their horses and goods and hear the lamentation of their women. That is best."
Cats'Meow
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-05-22 09:50:50 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
What about a system where you have to take a test in order to obtain a certain skill?



Open Map, each system offers you this opportunity.
The Skill is called: Player Skill

L2EVE ... and forget everything you ever learned from other games. It will NOT help you here.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#39 - 2012-05-22 09:51:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Carniferous wrote:
Roime wrote:
Carniferous wrote:
Dude anyone with more than 3 braincells would find waiting 35 days for a skill to finish training to be mind numbingly boring. Especially when they can only use t1 ships, weapons, and mining equipment.

Also what do you expect the newbie player to do while waiting for these skills to finish? They can't pvp at all, can't really do anything actually.

Playing the game with T1 weapons is not playing the game. Slamming your head against the wall would be more exciting.


You are so wrong, I played first 8 months without any T2 turrets.

There's not a single 30-day skill a new player needs.

If you think you can't PVP at all without skill or module X, you can just as well quit now because you'll never be ready. You'll just make a new excuse for being a *****.




And what did you do exactly for those 8 months? Sit in trade chat? Kill low level npc rats in high sec?

You CANNOT pvp with t1 weapons. Don't be ridiculous.


Yes you can. You can PvP with no weapons if you're not flying solo. A triple NOS AB Rifter with a warp scram & a small armour rep can be a pain in the ass to kill, and you're not going anywhere until you have. Meanwhile his mates can shoot the crap out of you.

EDIT: And in any case you can train a T2 small turret type in less than a week.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Francisco Bizzaro
#40 - 2012-05-22 09:52:17 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
Dude anyone with more than 3 braincells would find waiting 35 days for a skill to finish training to be mind numbingly boring. Especially when they can only use t1 ships, weapons, and mining equipment.

Long training times are not meant to exciting. They are there to force you to make a decision - do I need X more or Y more urgently? In a game where ISK comes easy, time is one of the few things of genuine consistent value and a great equalizer. When you choose to train a skill it's a decision about your priorities and has consequences no matter how wealthy you are.

Quote:

Also what do you expect the newbie player to do while waiting for these skills to finish? They can't pvp at all, can't really do anything actually.

Playing the game with T1 weapons is not playing the game. Slamming your head against the wall would be more exciting.

I'd be tempted to say you lack imagination. But if this is your opinion, your problems start long before imagination even kicks in. Maybe this isn't the game for you.