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Is Industry viable for a new player?

First post
Author
Davina Ardente
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-10-02 21:12:23 UTC
Hey all,

Normally you'd never find me in this forum (I'm not too terribly interested in where my ships come from, only in using them to blow things up Twisted ), but my girlfriend recently began playing afterr watching me for a whie. She wanted to do something different from what I was doing, so she decided to try mining and building, with a side of exploration. I naturally did quite a bit of research so I could help her out, and what I came up with was essentially "lol noob u can't do that till u have 13 years of skills and 20 billion isk, and mining sucks, do missions instead", over and over again, from multiple industry players, blogs, and forum posts. I refuse to believe the game is THAT broken, but maybe I'm wrong. In short, my question is this: Is mining and building viable for a player just starting out? Or is it as impossible as they say? Thank you in advance for your replies.
Kesshisan
#2 - 2011-10-02 21:24:37 UTC
Is mining and building viable? Hey, I could run around in low sec and get blown up every day and call it "viable." If my goal is to have fun, and I have fun, anything is viable. I think the question you're asking is "is it profitable?"

Davina Ardente wrote:
she decided to try mining and building, with a side of exploration.


As soon as she discovers that these are three different careers, not two, she will be on the path to being profitable.

Just because you mine doesn't mean you build.
Just because you build doesn't mean you mine.

I am a part of a larger corporation and alliance, but I also do a lot of manufacturing on my own. I am currently in the process of manufacturing 1,000,000 missiles for someone. This has taken me almost 20something days to complete as I only have one researched BP. However, I have not mined anything. All minerals were reprocessed and/or bought off the market.

Mining is boring to me. If your girlfriend enjoys it, good for her.
Exploration is hit and miss. If you can survive like that, go for it.
Manufacturing can be profitable with no skills, but you will need to do A LOT of research. The more research you do, the more items you can find that are profitable. Skills help, but research is far more important.

And two last things to think about, too:

Minerals you mine are not free.
You can't make money off of things you build unless you sell them.
Davina Ardente
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-10-02 21:42:02 UTC
Heh. I think her train of thought was "I need money to build, and I don't want to do missions, so I'll have to mine and explore." and I absolutely get the research thing. I'm actually frantically sifting through various websites trying to find some sort of profit calculator for manufacturing so I can give her the tools to succeed. What sort of startup capital would be recommended for a new manufacturing character (in other words, how much ISK do I have to give her Roll )?
Zifrian
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#4 - 2011-10-02 22:05:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Davina Ardente wrote:
Heh. I think her train of thought was "I need money to build, and I don't want to do missions, so I'll have to mine and explore." and I absolutely get the research thing. I'm actually frantically sifting through various websites trying to find some sort of profit calculator for manufacturing so I can give her the tools to succeed. What sort of startup capital would be recommended for a new manufacturing character (in other words, how much ISK do I have to give her Roll )?


There are several calculators out there she could use. Some are in the form of Spreadsheets, others (like mine - link in sig) are programs, and others are websites. This forum has several you could use. Just go through the posts.

This is what I would suggest. Start out with learning how to build ammo and learn the market. Industry isn't just about skills and isk, it's about knowing what your demand is like for the items you want to produce. Researching different types of ammo (hybrid/missiles, etc) in different areas would help you understand what to sell. For instance, the -50% range ammos are in higher demand than the other variants.

After you get a few ammo BPO's (check market for prices), try and find a hub to sell in and see if you can get someone to research them for you. You aren't going to find anywhere to do it publicly without a long wait. If you are interested, I have some free slots in my POS. Just let me know.

Then focus on skills. Stuff like adding more manufacturing slots, trade, etc. Production Efficiency 5 is a must. I would get this to 4 before she builds anything.

That is where I would start with industry.

However, industry isn't a quick process. You can spend a good amount of time just making stuff. If she wants to do mining, that's a good connection to ammo production since you can make it with basic minerals that she will mine. Note, she doesn't need to mine all the minerals to make the ammo, but this could help supplement income instead of just handing over isk. Buy the rest of the minerals on market will help understand it better.

So mine high sec ores, and build ammo. That is the best place to start imo. Hope that helps.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder

o mf g
Doomheim
#5 - 2011-10-02 22:15:04 UTC
All of these vets have like 6 accounts, dedicated to R&I, even if they don't tell you. Even...just mining. If you get 6 accounts, yes it is viable, otherwise it is less viable but still viable considering this is a game and who cares.
Davina Ardente
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-10-02 22:25:24 UTC
Thanks, Zifrian! I had actually downloaded your tool moments before you posted. I'll definitely have her start looking at the different BPOs and working on her Industry skillset. And if I could afford six accounts, I'm pretty sure I would be typing this on a nicer computer...
Shayla Sh'inlux
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-10-02 22:58:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Tell her to get PE to level 4 (shouldn't take too long) and focus on building ammo. Incidentally, while minerals you mine are not free, you can perfectly mine the minerals to build ammo with. Cos, ya know, factories don't require actual maintenance once started and you have to actually play too :). Ammo @ PE 4 is reasonably profitable. More so if you're not stuck buying minerals from other people's sell orders, as you cut out the market tax, which puts a fair dent into your profits without market skills. Just make sure to not throw her 50 million because that takes all the fun out of discovering industry for yourself.

Then, while building ammo, she'll find she wants more factory slots, for which she needs more researched blueprints as well as more materials to build and a bigger ship to haul more goods to and from markets. This is when she'll automatically discover Contracts, BPCs, Buy orders, Sell orders, regional markets etc. etc. etc.

Yes, to be a competitive produces on the t2/t3/capital market you need between a few hundred million and a few billion as upfront investment. And no, the t1 market isn't very profitable but it's a good place to start (did I mention ammo yet?). And no, no spreadsheet is going to tell you "make item xyz" and make lots of money, because if there was, everyone would be building it and profits would quickly fall.

Eve is a sandbox game. Play it as such. 99% of the fun in Eve is discovering how stuff works and figuring out the best way to use said stuff to your advantage. I started Eve in 2004, when there was no tech II, no PoSes, no Drone Regions, no capital ships, no Eve Wiki and no Jita (well the system existed...) Neither were there any sort of guides. You had to -literally- figure EVERYHING for yourself. It was the most fun I ever had in a game.
Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Archer Investments Initiative
#8 - 2011-10-03 02:30:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Davina Ardente wrote:
Hey all,

Normally you'd never find me in this forum (I'm not too terribly interested in where my ships come from, only in using them to blow things up Twisted ), but my girlfriend recently began playing afterr watching me for a whie. She wanted to do something different from what I was doing, so she decided to try mining and building, with a side of exploration. I naturally did quite a bit of research so I could help her out, and what I came up with was essentially "lol noob u can't do that till u have 13 years of skills and 20 billion isk, and mining sucks, do missions instead", over and over again, from multiple industry players, blogs, and forum posts. I refuse to believe the game is THAT broken, but maybe I'm wrong. In short, my question is this: Is mining and building viable for a player just starting out? Or is it as impossible as they say? Thank you in advance for your replies.


Industry is a route any player can go regardless of skill levels. Obviously time is always important but after a couple months you can easily get into large-scale mining, PI, hauling, and building. Building is by far more difficult to get into efficiently than mining but you can get there nonetheless.
Xearal
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#9 - 2011-10-03 10:08:50 UTC
Whoever said you need 6 sccounts and 10 years of skillpoints on each and 20B isk to do industry is wrong.

I started my industry carreer as a miner, skilling up for the hulk, because I figured mining is a nice and easy form of getting money.
And it is, it's just not that profitable.
Hence I supplemented my income with exploration in high sec.

This got me a little starting capital, and I figured I'd try industry, as pew pew isn't something I am very fond of doing.

I skilled up my Production Efficiency skill to 4, and began making Scourge Missiles with the minerals I mined, then expanded into other little things. Soon my mineral requirements were getting far beyond what I could mine, and I fonud mining to be very boring, so was doing it less and less.

So I added some marketting skills, and began using buy orders like I was doing before for ore, using my refining skill to refine the ore and make profit, but instead of selling the minerals, I used them to manufacture things.

My manufacturing expanded, I began making more and more things, aquired soem nice new shiny BPO's, began making BCs and other nasty toys. Thus increasing yet again, my demand for minerals.

So in came the marketting skills again, now for buy orders for minerals as well. I also needed more orders because my repetoire of products was expanding and I didn't have enough orders to sell them all in my local hub.

Meanwhile, PE went to 5, as this is quite a requirement if you're serious about industry.

Then I started looking at T2 production and invention, I looked at my local market, saw there was a nice bare ground of stuff I could sell, and began getting the science skills for this.

Then I found that I needed more manufacturing slots because otherwise, production would be slowing down due to the expanded repetoire, so mass production went to 5, and advanced mass production came in.

Science skills continued to grow, adding more items to my lists of things I could invent and build. And my capital as well as my corp's capital both swelled.

As I wasn't doing any mining anymore except on corp mining ops to fuel our POS, all my minerals came from the market.
THis required more time spent hauling things, and soon this started to get out of hand with the amounts I needed to moe.
Hence I got myself an orca, and soon after, a freighter.

This gave me more time between hauling bauts again, to do other things. So I went exploring again, this time in low sec.
I discovered the abundance of Ladar sites, and after a bit of research found them to be most profitable when combined with the proper skills ( which I had aquired at said ladars ), A POS, and my already impressive amount of industry skills.

Exploration will always be 'hit and miss', but if you do it often, there's some consistency in it. Usually an evening scanning nets me at least 1 gas site worth doing, and a few radars.(I don't do combat sites )

As it stands now, I've gotten into Capital construction, pooling resources together with some corpies, we aquired some BPO's, researched them and have begun our path on building bigger and bigger things.

All this I've done with a single toon, on a single account and I'm only 18 months old ( or around that time anyway.. hmm 18 months.... )
Yes, I have a 2nd account, with 2 toons on it. one with some marketting skills who I've put in Jita, and one who has recently finished training up for a Jump Freighter, which is making life MUCH easier for me, as now I can easily obtain things I need in empire, or export goods to empire.

Another good moneymaker I have is my PI which I do in nullsec, using a covert transport, manufacturing P1s which are processed on a 2nd toon into P2s, which I send off to Jita.
This earns me about 400-500M a month as well.



Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?

Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#10 - 2011-10-03 14:57:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Celgar Thurn
You will always find people slagging off miners. Best to ignore them and do what you like doing and enjoy yourself. It is a game after all. I personally like the 'crafting'/manufacturing process and have just made my own Fenrir from scratch. A lot of work but there you go.

To more directly answer your question mining is going to be easier to train up for than producing 'stuff' . Both careers are 'viable' in terms of making profit. Regarding mining go for Pyroxeres (Amarr/Ammatar high-sec) if you can or Veldspar if you are not in a Pyro area. It's worth salvaging the rats in the asteroid belts as well to sell on for iskies or to make rigs with.
Regarding production try dabbling with ammo and maybe rigs as well and see how you go.
Akara Ito
Phalanx Solutions
#11 - 2011-10-03 17:14:38 UTC
Honestly, if your girlfriends wants to play eve and enjoys it, just let her play.
Who cares about how much money you earn if you have fun.

Just dont start bullshitting about those precious isk per hour ratio and you'll be fine.
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
#12 - 2011-10-03 20:50:37 UTC
She should try some PI. Is a rly cheap and easy way to get into industry without much money.

Just show her this Offical Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKnObxB9XCs

And it's semi passive money.

BlogTutorials | Youtube "I don’t know everything, I just know what I know."

CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
#13 - 2011-10-04 05:09:17 UTC
I'd say it's perfectly viable. Just advice her to start small and expand (ammo is indeed a good choice if we're talking industry, Planetary Interaction might also prove interesting).

The ISK Guide has a ton of information on both mining and manufacturing; make sure to check it out. Smile

CCP Spitfire | Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire

Severnij Veter
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-10-04 10:51:54 UTC
CCP Spitfire wrote:

The ISK Guide has a ton of information on both mining and manufacturing; make sure to check it out. Smile


Thanks for the link Smile *thumbs up*

"I would rather die a thousand deaths than surrender".

General Robert E. Lee.

Satav
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2011-10-04 15:23:15 UTC
As with anything in eve, it takes time to get good at mining and manufacturing. Pvp has a bit less of a curve that is very misleading. I would suggest letting your GF's character train up for a month or two and let her play on your tune so that she doesn't get bored.
Usurpine
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2011-10-04 15:39:11 UTC
Xearal wrote:
Whoever said you need 6 sccounts and 10 years of skillpoints on each and 20B isk to do industry is wrong.

I started my industry carreer as a miner, skilling up for the hulk, because I figured mining is a nice and easy form of getting money.
And it is, it's just not that profitable.


(wall of text)


^This. Read it, its exactly my experience, too.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
Feign Disorder
#17 - 2011-10-04 16:47:48 UTC
is it viable yes. just make sure it is something that interests you and that it would be something you enjoy doing. start with ammo, rigs, and some PI.

tips:
buy a researched ammo bpo (it does not need to be 1000me. 15me will be good enough for you)
get production efficiency to lvl5
begin manufacturing.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-10-04 17:34:37 UTC
unless you can give your GF a huge chunk of money to start her industrial career, I would not advice to buy BPOs yet. If you check the contracts, there are many high run ammo BPC sets for sale with perfect ME for very little ISK. I would strongly suggest any beginner to first only build from BPCs until you have a feeling for where to make the profit. After that, she can slowly start to replace the BPCs with BPOs.
(When i was very young, I spent my entire ISK on a drake BPO and was totally broke for weeks without the minerals to even build a single drake- so just be careful how to start)

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Nova Ardente
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-10-04 17:44:05 UTC
Hello all! I'm said girlfriend. Thank you very much for taking time to help me with this and for all of your advice. And thank you Spitfire for your response. It's cool to see devs take time to respond to posts like this.
Mechanoid Kryten
N0VA 5
#20 - 2011-10-04 17:49:38 UTC
Satav wrote:
As with anything in eve, it takes time to get good at mining and manufacturing. Pvp has a bit less of a curve that is very misleading. I would suggest letting your GF's character train up for a month or two and let her play on your tune so that she doesn't get bored.


I find that players who train their characters without playing them end up putting small shield boosters on dominix and wonder why they can't do a lvl1 with it.

I find that female players who play what and how their boyfriends do... rather than being given freedom in the sandbox with maybe some help and advice along the way... are not playing because they themselves enjoy eve but because they want to do wwhat their boyfriends tell them and quit in under a year. And then they will say to their boyfriends that they spend too much time playing eve and should choose between the game and them.

The best thing any new player can do is start a new character and do the tutorials. I have great memories of mining in a wreathe I called a tin can before I learned jet can mining. I remember the awe I had when my retiever pulled 700 units of veld per cycle. Had someone handed me a hulk right off I would have missed out on waiting to get it. And I would have gotten bored and quit eve.

What rocks are the most isk per hour to mine? Which of your mission loot is worth more refined than sold? What blue prints make the most proffit? Answers: https://eve-industrialist.com/ Never sell an item for less than its mineral costs again!

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