EVE General Discussion

Tel Airuta, you just don't understand the nature of EvE Online.

If you don't like sandbox games, you shouldn't play them.

So? That doesn't really relate to what I just said: apparently, you're having problems getting to the end of the sites you find — something that you should be able to if you have actually done your homework.

No, it's not. It's an integral part of the risk vs. reward. The problem is that you're not apparently able to compensate for the risks properly for some reason — the risk of someone else swooping in and getting the stuff is part of that risk, and he's risking it as well. Again the question comes back to why didn't you get the final loot before he did? What did he do to get it? Why can't you do the same? What is the actual problem you're encountering here?

I was saying “[Restricting the ships that can be used in a plex] won't really change anything. Those with the right tools and tactics (i.e. not the newbies) will still get the prize.”
To this, you answered “Bull.”, suggesting that what I just said wasn't true.

I then pointed out that in doing so, you're essentially saying that tools and tactics won't matter (which is odd, since you then go on to claim that tools and tactics do matter), but if that's the case, then you've just denied that there is a problem to begin because that's what they're using right now to beat you.

By shooting him, obviously. He explodes. You take his nice modules. You've now earned more than the complex was worth.

To the OP:
First of all, welcome to EvE. The term you talking about is called "instancing". This is a dirty word in most circles. Having said that, I actually agree with you in a couple of areas, mainly based upon the PvE fun factor.

The "competition" for high sec sites is a serious joke. One of the quotes I remember from the exploration channel is "Hi sec is sooo over farmed", which is on the mark. Newer games (for the most part) are designed such that farming is not possible, or pointless, or even better, that actually playing the PvE content obviates the need to farm. So in this case, "farming" should be the dirty word, and "instancing", not so much. But instancing bucks the founding principle in EvE of freedom to grief, scam, trash talk, commit cannibalism and infanticide, and if it was possible, to urinate on your victims' frozen corpses. The underlying point is that competing against players with vastly better skills and gear is just not fun (unless you are a masochist). Many would say (and have said) HTFU. Personally, I'm not into the ant vs boot relationship as a function of having fun.

The sad part is that exploration is some really cool PVE content, rendered pointless in high sec due to over-competition. And hi sec is where the PvE should be (IMHO). I personally don't even care about the loot - there are plenty of ways to get the shiny stuff. I simply enjoy working the sites as it is fun PvE content. I am positive that CCP would attract many new accounts if they simply instanced the PvE content in hi sec. But is that gonna happen? Never. Never, even though it would greatly improve the fun factor for devout PvEers and simultaneously increase CCP's profits.

I don't know what to tell you, dude. I hope you find a way to have fun inside the sandbox, as your current PvE activities don't seem to cut it for you...

There should come a big disclaimer at login screen. Remind people that EVE is EVE, one universe and all activity is subject to PVP at all times.

First PLEX, next level 4's then what? instances for asteroid belts...


This game is not for you OP.

In other words, they've set themselves up to compete better. What I'm asking is why is it so horrid that someone who has done this to gain a competitive advantage can out-compete someone who hasn't? Also, the point is that it's not just a matter of SP and equipment — it's a matter of putting both of them to good use, which requires player skill.

But that's just it: the solution to what? What is the problem? So what if new players can't compete until they've built up a stock of good equipment and handling skills and a bit of familiarity with the game? He can still use the same sites to hone his skills and to try to eke out an increasingly large slice of the pie. One day, he'll be able to keep it all to himself — he is now able to compete fully (or maybe he just got lucky…).

No. It really, really isn't.

And the problem?

It's a sandbox. They get to chose to do it.

You get to chose ways of stopping them.

Stop ******* crying about it and LEARN.

Well I really wouldn't class someone who just sits at the end of a site waiting for the loot to drop as competing better. Competing means doing the same thing as someone else e.g running the actual site. You can't compete when the dice are loaded.

I've done it myself many times and I'm definately not competing .. I would say I'm running the site in an alternative way. :-)

They shot the faction spawn?

Loot it anyway.

Your post is well intentioned, and in a large part I can't really disagree. What I can say is Eve isn't fair, and competition in this manner will always favour those with an edge, whether this is fitting, ship or SP.

What will locking T3s out do? Make the superbear use a Drake? What if he doesn't always win on those terms ... you don't think he'll use faction mods to restore his competition?

The logical solution to this is to STOP COMPETING if you have no chance to win on the terms as given. You don't need to go to lowsec to find 3/10 or 4/10 sites - they often sit around in quiet highsec for hours untouched.

…except that none of that is what's happening. They're not really entry-level sites — they're sites tuned for smaller ships. They're not in EVE's starter area — they're in highsec. They're not particularly made for new players — they're made for people who want to fly those smaller ships. What you're describing isn't a problem. It's just the PvP nature of EVE as applied to highsec exploration.

Not to finish them, no. To do them efficiently and to win against competitors trying to do the same, they certainly do. SP doesn't win you anything because you are still the one who have to apply them intelligently and who then have to make those applications count.

Great. That means there's no problem and that, in fact, the current situation provides a solution to a different problem.

Because there's no need to do so and because it doesn't actually solve anything. The limits are there to provide content for different-size ships so you can compete in a frigate-level arena if you feel like it. T3s are a cruiser, and thus are popular in cruiser sites. Contrary to popular belief, they're not necessarily the best choice from a competitive standpoint — they're just the easiest ones to get into and they provide a nice balance of the different abilities you might need for the different sites.