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Spider Tanking Legion
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Blodhgarm Dethahal

8 Sins of Man

Stray Dogs.

Likes received: 195

#1 - 2012-05-20 17:43:16 UTC

I ame up with this fit in my spare time, have yet to test it though..

[Legion, WH-SpiderA1]
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Legion Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer

5x Focused Medium Beam Laser II
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction

Tracking Computer II (Tracking Speed Script)
3x Cap Recharger II

Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
3x Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
2x Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Stats-All skills at lvl 5
EHP: 61,092 (EVE: 47,424)
Armor & Resists: 9,092 with 76/77/82/90 resists
Aurora Crystals: 230 DPS at approx 70km optimal (stable at 49%)
Imperial Navy Multi: 397 DPS at approx 20km optimal (stable at 49%)
Max Speed: 248 m/sec

With 2 Legions Spider Tanking you can get a 621 Omni DPS Tank on both of them

Most of my members in the WH armor tank and are skilled into armor tanking ships (including myself).. so we are looking for some form of substitue for the RR Tengu. all Comments & Suggestions are welcome.. as well as constructive critisim.

Antagonistic Tendencies 1,155
Rroff Antagonistic Tendencies Likes received: 1,155	#2 - 2012-05-20 18:34:59 UTC Legions with a legion boosting armor links do RR very very nicely... however the problem is getting useful dps out of them in that setup.

Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light 418
Godfrey Silvarna Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light Likes received: 418	#3 - 2012-05-20 18:49:59 UTC The DPS is the problem. RR battleships do better for much less ISK.

School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 5,031
Jack Miton School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State Likes received: 5,031	#4 - 2012-05-20 20:50:35 UTC no... There is no Bob. Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

The Scope Gallente Federation 350
Mr Bigwinky The Scope Gallente Federation Likes received: 350	#5 - 2012-05-21 12:43:15 UTC Don't think this belongs in the WH forum, 'Ships & Modules' would be your best bet. `Welcome to EVE online, here's your rubix cube, go F*** yourself ♥`


Rroff Antagonistic Tendencies Likes received: 1,155	#6 - 2012-05-21 13:00:13 UTC Mr Bigwinky wrote: Don't think this belongs in the WH forum, 'Ships & Modules' would be your best bet. Hes looking for an alternative to RR Tengus for running Wormhole anoms/profs so I'd guess it would be ok here to.

Daneel Trevize

Give my 11percent back

Likes received: 549

#7 - 2012-05-21 13:45:54 UTC | Edited by: Daneel Trevize

The RR subsystem isn't bonused to reduce fitting requirements unlike Logi ships. So don't gimp yourself with large RR modules, go mediums, larger guns, and 1600mm. The RR range difference is minute. And don't rig for EHP, rig for resists or RRAs to reduce cap use. Also consider drones for DPS, and ABs for more tank & ensuring you're able to get & keep in RR range while also moving the ball about. Tengus don't need to move to get in dps range, everyone else does.

Quote:

[Legion, w-space rr gang?]

Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Legion Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II

10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Centum A-Type Energized Thermic Membrane
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Centum A-Type Energized EM Membrane

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I

3% PG implant in slot 6. Or T2 PG rig and then there's a few more options.
You can also trade the locus rig for CCC or RRA and then use the CR mid for TC, web or sebo. But IMHO the Locus is the best choice.
You might want an EANM over a HS, not a problem if that's required, plenty of CPU.

Better would be buffer dps 2xLocus,3xTC legions with a pair of pure RR Legions/Oneiros, all with ABs. Sorta the now-dead Vanguard blitz setup (min-maxed you could have Sebos and TLs depending on spawn ranges).

Oh and another problem with RR T3s is if someone poor-fags their fit or doesn't have the skills to be stable, (or manage their mods & range well under pressure) you can lose a ship/RR power and then you all DIAF. And for god's sake passive tank, no T2 active hardeners/even DC2 to be neuted off and ...POP!

Rroff

Antagonistic Tendencies

Likes received: 1,155

#8 - 2012-05-21 14:01:25 UTC

Not really worth bothering with medium RR - even the faction/deadspace ones for spider repping T3s. Legions are just too limited damage wise in terms of both actual damage and the ranges they can work at to be worth doing this unfortunatly.

I was toying about with something like this:

Quote:

[Legion, New Setup 20]
Damage Control II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Regard' Power Projector

Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Legion Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Legion Electronics - Energy Parasitic Complex
Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization
Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization

But its seriously lacking buffer unless your throwing lg slaves and armor ganglinks into the mix - could also experiment with dropping the DCU for a plate tho hard to make anything bigger than an 800mm one fit.

TBH I think its a lost cause your better off just using guardians for repping.

Daneel Trevize

Give my 11percent back

Likes received: 549

#9 - 2012-05-21 14:18:34 UTC | Edited by: Daneel Trevize

Huh, HM legion... trading off the 25% bonus to HAMs...
Try again with some buffer:

Quote:

[Legion, RR HMs better?]

Legion Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Legion Electronics - Energy Parasitic Complex
Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization
Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Energy Transfer Array II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Centum A-Type Energized EM Membrane
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Centum A-Type Energized Thermic Membrane

Medium Bay Loading Accelerator I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Remote Repair Augmentor I

Needs that utility mid. Could be an AB that's not stable being run (but when you're being shot, going fast obit around your guys is better than having a stable repper you can't use on yourself), more useful is the fitted TP, best would probably be a mix of TPs and webs. Still the dps is with Furys and you all have no speed.

Edit: Wait, is the ECP SS doing anything for that cap trans (PyFA indicates no), or could it be replaced with the TTN to give more sensor strength (after a do-over due to slot movement)? Or at least the scanning bonused module for refitting & reuse without station services.

Edit2: Actually 2x RRA is more stable than CCC + RRA, you can be stable with an AB going (remember to swap to FC SS), but still Tengus/missiles need TPs, webs to apply dps, no? Bring 1 buffer Rapier/Huginn/Loki along?
Also it's less calibration so the T2 dps rig can be restored:

Quote:

[Legion, RR HMs better? 2]

Legion Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization
Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Legion Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Energy Transfer Array II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner

Centum A-Type Energized EM Membrane
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Centum A-Type Energized Thermic Membrane

Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Medium Remote Repair Augmentor I
Medium Remote Repair Augmentor I

Still much love for the 50km Scorch + TC&web setups though.

Rroff

Antagonistic Tendencies

Likes received: 1,155

#10 - 2012-05-21 14:32:49 UTC | Edited by: Rroff

^^ Coz HAMSs are tragically poor range wise for doing sleeper sites and won't hit sleepers that well when they are in range either - sleeper frigs especially you will have a hard time applying decent damage to unless heavily webbed.

You could change the ECP SS to the disso, put a cap recharger in the spare slot and be cap stable without using energy RR pairs - energy RR pairs is a little more stable tho a bit more complicated to work with.

End of the day whatever changes you make its pretty much a waste of time and can't even come close to the capabilities of an RR tengu.

EDIT: Taking your comments onboard, tweaked the fitting a bit and came to this:

Quote:

[Legion, Spider RR]
Damage Control II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Medium Capacitor Battery II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction

Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Medium Anti-EM Pump I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I

Legion Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization
Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization

With implants its not far behind an RR tengu for damage projection but still need armor ganglinks really.

Daneel Trevize

Give my 11percent back

Likes received: 549

#11 - 2012-05-21 14:58:51 UTC | Edited by: Daneel Trevize

With the Loki link, you can make a 1600mm plated AB legion go 1km/s before heat, T2 fit, thanks to trading an EANM/ANP for an Overdrive, because lol lasers don't need cargo space Lol

OP, do you have access to Link Legions/Lokis, or would you be willing/able to bring a bonused webbing & painting ship reliably to free up DPS legion midslots/enable Missiles use? Actually, using missiles is a whole different question.

For this to be a w-space discussion, the real question is what classes (assuming home + static) of sites does the OP want to run in, because legion RR gangs scale up their tank power hugely for each step/ship added, but we also need to know what frigs/webs/neuts/alpha/range you're likely to face.

Blodhgarm Dethahal

8 Sins of Man

Stray Dogs.

Likes received: 195

#12 - 2012-05-21 21:10:21 UTC | Edited by: Blodhgarm Dethahal

Was thinking using this in mainly a C4 WH with C3/C4 Static

Thanks for the help guys! I think a RR SPider Legion isn't the best choice then.. I'll just contiune training for my Guardian now Smile

I was also toying with the idea of Spider Tanking Battleships in WHs.. namely the Mega and Armageddon (since they have a utility High Slot). Not sure how many would be apropriate though, and if they would still need some form of Logi support.

( I have no idea how to fi a Logi for WH.. so help on that would also be nice if you could spare it Smile

)

many thanks

EDIT: just thought of something else as well.. with a Legion if you get neuted dry you can't fire your guns.. another reason it is probably a waste of time :P

Rroff

Antagonistic Tendencies

Likes received: 1,155

#13 - 2012-05-21 22:03:56 UTC | Edited by: Rroff

Assuming your going dual guardian then one of the fairly standard PVP fits will work fine:

Quote:

[Guardian, guardian eccm]
Damage Control II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Large 'Regard' Power Projector

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

The ECCM isn't needed for sleeper sites but means you can use them for PVP pretty easily.

Derath Ellecon

University of Caille

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 2,402

#14 - 2012-05-21 22:12:59 UTC

Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:

Was thinking using this in mainly a C4 WH with C3/C4 Static

Thanks for the help guys! I think a RR SPider Legion isn't the best choice then.. I'll just contiune training for my Guardian now Smile

)

many thanks

EDIT: just thought of something else as well.. with a Legion if you get neuted dry you can't fire your guns.. another reason it is probably a waste of time :P

I think the primary reason that Tengu's excel at RR is their damage projection. Since the RR sub gives a bonus to RR but not range, you still have to stay fairly close. Tengu's don't have to burn into range like legions would. So they can focus on staying in RR range.

That and the capless weapons.

I have also heard of people using RR dominix. They have a similar benefit, namely passive tank plus RR. and sentry drones for primary damage, which also don't use cap and have long range

Coolsmoke

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 21

#15 - 2012-05-22 08:04:09 UTC

C4 RR Dominix - tried, tested, and much loved:

[Dominix, RR1]
Energized Explosive Membrane II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Drone Navigation Computer II
Drone Navigation Computer II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
(Spare med slot for ECCM/SEBO/whatever)

Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction

Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I

Ogre II x5
Curator II x5 etc.

This setup is based on a pair running C3 anomalies. Cap lasts about 6 mins but when you're in RR you don't need cap stability anyway. Ogres move faster than unbuffed Hammerheads, and they kill frigs easily.
110k ehp, cheap and robust. For C4 anoms, you'll need four of them to run the sites at a worthwhile speed.
I'm looking forward to trying out the new Extrinsic mods with this fit...

Blodhgarm Dethahal

8 Sins of Man

Stray Dogs.

Likes received: 195

#16 - 2012-05-23 19:26:31 UTC

I was thiniking something like this for Logi..

[Guardian, WH-Logi]

4x Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
2x Large Energy Transfer Array II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
ECCM - Radar II

Damage Control II
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Energized Thermic Membrane II
EM Plating II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Medium Remote Repair Augmentor I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

5x Light Armor Maintenance Bot I

I like the look of the Domi.. I heard about the effectiveness of them.. I guess you just have to kill the frigs fast before they start eating your drones?

thanks again for the help

Bane Nucleus

Dark Venture Corporation

Kitchen Sinkhole

Likes received: 1,586

#17 - 2012-05-23 20:01:35 UTC

Rroff wrote:

Assuming your going dual guardian then one of the fairly standard PVP fits will work fine:

Quote:

The ECCM isn't needed for sleeper sites but means you can use them for PVP pretty easily.

There are many wormhole corps that love jumping fleets running anoms in wh space. The ECCM could help you when that finally does happen.

No trolling please


Daneel Trevize Give my 11percent back Likes received: 549	#18 - 2012-05-23 20:40:12 UTC Equally an AB would help you tank and move to be out of bubbles/tackle range while also repping your fleetmates. Good during PvE and also if jumped, either to keep the logis alive or get them out to reship to something larger/better.


Godfrey Silvarna Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light Likes received: 418	#19 - 2012-05-24 06:33:10 UTC I would not fit a Guardian with a 800mm plate. Always try to get a 1600mm in there even if you have to use several shoehorns to make it fit in there. The Genolution implants for example do wonders for a logi pilot.

Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 6,913
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs Likes received: 6,913	#20 - 2012-05-24 07:41:22 UTC The two problems we found with the Legion: * It can't tank as much as a Tengu. * It has less far far less range than a Tengu. However, we did find that a Legion anhiliates Sleeper frigates before a Tengu can even lock.