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High sec plexes need entry keys
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Tel Airuta
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-05-21 04:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tel Airuta
Dear CCP,

Complexes in high sec, whether scanned down or DED sites now have a major problem, they are routinely farmed by players in everything from tech 3 to dead space fits.

At this point there is very little chance of newbies to even get past them let alone fight and win.

Now I understand you want to keep competition alive and I am not saying 0.0 and low sec needs keys but the entry acceleration gates in high sec should have one rat or structure that has a key at the entry gate itself, which can be looted for the key.

This will atleast give new players a chance to work through the complex without being basically being run over by peeps flying billions of ISK worth of ships and fits, who then continously farm 1/10, 2/10 and 3/10 sites for faction loot.

Yesterday after spending nearly an hour scanning down a 3/10 site in a 0.9 system and finding the plex, making my way through about half way through the plex who should show up but this guy in a Legion Tech 3..he then proceeds to destroy all the rats and because he has even while promptly making his way through the acceleration gates in the other rooms, the result was by the even though I just about managed to keep up with him, he tagged and killed the boss in like 3secs..

This is not the first time incidentally, it has become a routine occurence no matter where you are.

oh! but some people would say! you could have fought him or flipped the wreck...yeah sure, a month old char in a drake against a 2 year old char in a tech 3 legion.. we all know which way that fight would go.
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-05-21 04:56:35 UTC
I had a similar instance in a .7 sec. I got to the Overseer and a Tengu cam in. It was one of the cycled aggro scenarios with alot of aggro on the screen and I knew if I hit the overseer I'd get full aggro. So I did, then left. Went back to find one PvE wreck yellow and a despawned plex. He didnt get his deadspace loot. Neither did I after clearing 2 rooms but isn't that what EVE is all about? Crab bucket sandbox to make up for lack of content?
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#3 - 2012-05-21 05:00:38 UTC
Sisohiv wrote:
I had a similar instance in a .7 sec. I got to the Overseer and a Tengu cam in. It was one of the cycled aggro scenarios with alot of aggro on the screen and I knew if I hit the overseer I'd get full aggro. So I did, then left. Went back to find one PvE wreck yellow and a despawned plex. He didnt get his deadspace loot. Neither did I after clearing 2 rooms but isn't that what EVE is all about? Crab bucket sandbox to make up for lack of content?


this ^
Shaampoo
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-05-21 05:02:57 UTC
Tel Airuta wrote:
Dear CCP,

Complexes in high sec, whether scanned down or DED sites now have a major problem, they are routinely farmed by players in everything from tech 3 to dead space fits.

At this point there is very little chance of newbies to even get past them let alone fight and win.

Now I understand you want to keep competition alive and I am not saying 0.0 and low sec needs keys but the entry acceleration gates in high sec should have one rat or structure that has a key at the entry gate itself, which can be looted for the key.

This will atleast give new players a chance to work through the complex without being basically being run over by peeps flying billions of ISK worth of ships and fits, who then continously farm 1/10, 2/10 and 3/10 sites for faction loot.

Yesterday after spending nearly an hour scanning down a 3/10 site in a 0.9 system and finding the plex, making my way through about half way through the plex who should show up but this guy in a Legion Tech 3..he then proceeds to destroy all the rats and because he has even while promptly making his way through the acceleration gates in the other rooms, the result was by the even though I just about managed to keep up with him, he tagged and killed the boss in like 3secs..

This is not the first time incidentally, it has become a routine occurence no matter where you are.

oh! but some people would say! you could have fought him or flipped the wreck...yeah sure, a month old char in a drake against a 2 year old char in a tech 3 legion.. we all know which way that fight would go.
I agree to some sort of lock out method to some sites but i don't agree to the key ( what would happen if you mid fight decide to have a buddy come in ect)

as new player i found running plexs that thing that i found the easiest to get into was plexs. It forced me to learn scanning and how to fit a ship.

Perhaps a worm holeish lock out method ( gates run out of fuel after so much) i would not expect a new player to dare to wreck flip a legion.
Marcus Ichiro
IchiCorp
#5 - 2012-05-21 05:08:36 UTC
I've gotten quite a few good deadspace modules in a Heron by simply being faster than whoever's doing the site. HTFU.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2012-05-21 05:16:06 UTC
Nerf the hisec plex drops to a reasonable level, and maybe the evernoobs leave them to realnoobs.

.
Tel Airuta
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-05-21 05:21:41 UTC
Marcus Ichiro wrote:
I've gotten quite a few good deadspace modules in a Heron by simply being faster than whoever's doing the site. HTFU.


So basically what you are saying is you are a ninja looter, who parasites on the guy who is actually working his way through the plex, and killing the rats, and is now acting all uber hard core on the forums.
Tel Airuta
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-05-21 05:22:38 UTC
Roime wrote:
Nerf the hisec plex drops to a reasonable level, and maybe the evernoobs leave them to realnoobs.


I wouldnt mind this at all, atleast it would make it less lucrative for high sec carebears in tech 3s from basically hoovering up plexes one after the other.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#9 - 2012-05-21 05:43:56 UTC
Another easy way to level out the playing field for new players in hisec is to lock out T3s from all hisec sites... might have to lock out T2s too, because of the Ishtar.

4/10s could be all moved to lowsec.

.
Tel Airuta
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-05-21 05:47:07 UTC
Shaampoo wrote:
I agree to some sort of lock out method to some sites but i don't agree to the key ( what would happen if you mid fight decide to have a buddy come in ect)

Perhaps a worm holeish lock out method ( gates run out of fuel after so much) i would not expect a new player to dare to wreck flip a legion.


This wont work, since a tech 3 cruiser or even a t1 Ds fitted destroyer, interdictor , assault frig , HAC and so forth have compritively litle mass. how is the gate going to be able to tell if the ship thats now entering is your buddy? Only way I can see that working is that you have to be in FLEET with the buddy, upon which point the gate will allow him to pass.

Quote:
as new player i found running plexs that thing that i found the easiest to get into was plexs. It forced me to learn scanning and how to fit a ship.


My suggestion would not affect this at all, scanning down high sec plexes is not the issue, allowing free booters in faction and t3 fits whom you have no chance against happily coming along and screwing you over is.

From what I understand the whole business of 1-3/10 complexes is to give new players a leg up rather than grinding through missions..harder rats but with better rewards.. now what we have is a situation where high end players simply farm these sites with impunity knowing that cannot be touched even by Concord....Which now works in thier favour

New players dont stand a chance in such a situation and the calculation is this:

If all these plexes are being farmed and if I should risk my ship and spend my time working my way through them only to have someone who is way ahead of me in every respect simply blaze past me and pop me in one shot even if I think about looting his stuff, or worse if I popped the boss and HE loots it knowing full well there is nothing I could do to stop him.

in which case why bother?
Lexmana
#11 - 2012-05-21 06:22:07 UTC
Make deadspace plexes low security pockets even in highsec. That would solve your problem. Or just accept the fact that highsec is totally screwed in terms of risk/reward and preferably should be reduced to just a couple of systems close to the main trade hubs.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#12 - 2012-05-21 06:31:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Morganta wrote:
Sisohiv wrote:
I had a similar instance in a .7 sec. I got to the Overseer and a Tengu cam in. It was one of the cycled aggro scenarios with alot of aggro on the screen and I knew if I hit the overseer I'd get full aggro. So I did, then left. Went back to find one PvE wreck yellow and a despawned plex. He didnt get his deadspace loot. Neither did I after clearing 2 rooms but isn't that what EVE is all about? Crab bucket sandbox to make up for lack of content?


this ^



I have seen this a few times, single Tengu, usually Russian, tanking all aggro, pop the boss, get the loot, fly off. Last time it was owned by what appeared to be a 0.0 corp or former 0.0 corp.

Not sure if the Botpocalypse has any effect on this, but I can confirm a pattern :Tengu, can tank all, straight for the boss.

(does not beat my BC with the battleship size AB every time though)

This problem I do not have when exploring in 0.0 space.



Must also point out that in the Exploration channel, I brought up the use of T3 ships in high sec exploration and they started to act like incursioners talking down to someone pointing out the fallacy of VG grinding - same "it's my ISK fountain! How dare you" attitude.

If the high sec exploration is intended to noobs - though you have to admit that 4/10 DED threat level is not easy - CCP should be aware that indeed people are blitzing/botting them in T3 ships.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Beledia Ilphukiir
Proffessional Experts Group
#13 - 2012-05-21 07:03:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Beledia Ilphukiir
Time for a reality check people. CCP isn't going to make the sites your private playground. That goes against everything EVE is about, but don't let that stop you from wasting your time asking for it. As long as the sites are worth doing you're going to have to compete over them. If you ban T3's, you'll compete against faction fitted pirate ships with the same end result. Even if you limited the sites to a single ship type, you'd still lose them, because the other explorers are better at it then you and fit their ships to blitz the site and get the loot. That is the only proper way to fly these sites. If you just want to do the brain numbing NPC grind or take your time, go fly missions and let the rest of us enjoy the gambling/speed racing that is highsec exploration.
Tel Airuta
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-05-21 07:20:52 UTC
Beledia Ilphukiir wrote:
Time for a reality check people. CCP isn't going to make the sites your private playground.


Let me give you a reality check. T3 and DS fitted pilots have turned 1-3/10 plexes into THIER PRIVATE Playground.


The reality is that these plexes provide Freebooters in t3 MASSIVE rewards AT ZERO risk.

The reality is that new players actually actually risk thier ships in these complexes, since not only are the rats harder to kill, but many of them scramble, so that the new player actually puts his ship on the line.

The reality is that these very same rats are insta-popped by these freebooters, who being the real carebears that they are, and unwilling to risk thier ships in low sec and 0.0, have decided to farm these plexes at no risk.

The reality is that these freebooters fully know that no one can touch them and that concord works in thier favour.

The reality is that these freebooters then come onto the forum and actual make the LAUGHABLE claim that what they are doing is based on PLAYER SKILL, and not the fact that they are exploiting high sec for thier own ends.

The reality is that these freebooters then look down thier noses at new players who are trying to make thier way in EVE and probably get thier rocks off at the chance of popping new players when they attempt to defend their claim, knowing full there is nothing that the newbie can do to stop them.

That is the reality.
Mocktar Olachenko
#15 - 2012-05-21 07:26:05 UTC
The loot (and by extension, the plex) isn't "yours" till the loot is in your cargo bay. Working as intended; HTFU.
Tel Airuta
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-05-21 07:45:14 UTC
Mocktar Olachenko wrote:
The loot (and by extension, the plex) isn't "yours" till the loot is in your cargo bay. Working as intended; HTFU.



Why dont you take your nice T3 cruiser wih DS fits to low sec and 0.0 where and put it on the line like everyone else? Oh thats right, you dont wont to risk loosing those ships when you would much rather farm in high sec especially complexes that some other new player has started and you just barge in.

Go to low sec and risk it all.

HTFU carebear.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-05-21 08:02:51 UTC
Tel Airuta wrote:
oh! but some people would say! you could have fought him or flipped the wreck...yeah sure, a month old char in a drake against a 2 year old char in a tech 3 legion.. we all know which way that fight would go.


I don't disagree with your general sentiment, but I don't think an Exploration ship would be fitted with a point should you go for the wreck :D As soon as they see you flashy they'll run away, anyway.

I think also this is the sort of thing you could yak to a CSM member about. Maybe T3s are too strong for the easiest sites and should be locked out like Battleships are? This wouldn't stop the oldest characters going through the sites faster, but it might help newer characters compete in highsec.
Disdaine
#18 - 2012-05-21 08:07:46 UTC
Cool idea.

Instanced plexes.

LFG Blood Monastary.

Roll

You win some, you lose some. Roll with it.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#19 - 2012-05-21 08:19:10 UTC
Just set stricter restrictions to ships useable in hi sec.

High sec.Tech 1 ships only.
Low sec. Tech 2 and 3 allowed aswel

If people can't just blitz the crap anymore they will have to actually compete and they aren't in it for the competition.
That will drive quit of em off and those remaining will have to adjust a lot more for running those plexes and thus opening them up a bit more for real new players.
Tel Airuta
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-05-21 08:19:32 UTC
Disdaine wrote:
Cool idea.

Instanced plexes.


How are they instanced if ANYONE can probe them down ? Nothing changes except the first come first serve basis.

Quote:

LFG Blood Monastary.


yeah right, these freebooters run these plexes because they know they can easily solo them without any risk of being ganked. If they were in low and 0.0 they would need to be in a fleet, and share the loot and be vulnerable to attack. That's why they stick to high sec. Welcome 30Million SP carebears! **** the new players!

Quote:
Roll

You win some, you lose some. Roll with it.


No all you do is lose. Because there is nothing you can do to stop it within the mechanics of the game given that the mechanics work in the favor of High SP carebears who make 100s of millions farming these plexes at zero risk. the only people who can touch them are other carebears, and that wont ever happen.
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