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Issues thread for the new font on SiSi

First post
Author
Praerian
Perkone
Caldari State
#121 - 2011-10-03 13:00:30 UTC
Could we have next to targeted items shield, armour and structure percentage remaining.

i.e. when sov grinding or shooting capitals would be nice to see that are indeed at 50% armour not trying to guess where we are actually at.

I don't think we need the SH, AR & ST just the percentages would be good.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#122 - 2011-10-03 14:02:14 UTC
LP store Offers filtered by: cuts off the Only in "Show Affordable Only"

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#123 - 2011-10-03 14:18:03 UTC
Salpun wrote:
LP store Offers filtered by: cuts off the Only in "Show Affordable Only"



Thank you :)

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Team Astro Sparkle

Peter Drakon
Luminaire Traders and Builders
#124 - 2011-10-03 15:34:55 UTC
Hi again!

I have checked the new font on Sisi.

CCP Punkturis wrote:
Some people actually like the new font and agree with us on that it's more readable.


I like it very much, it is more readble and much nicer then the old even on huge resolutions. Smile

CCP Punkturis wrote:
... there won't be a way to select fontsize. ... UI Scaling would be a better way to sort issues with the fontsize, but that's another project.


Since I have asked just for this feature, I'm a bit dissapointed that we can't change the font size. Please start the UI scale project asap. Smile

What about the font color change option? That would add a whole new way to customize the UI.

Peter
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#125 - 2011-10-03 15:39:32 UTC
Peter Drakon wrote:
Hi again!

I have checked the new font on Sisi.

CCP Punkturis wrote:
Some people actually like the new font and agree with us on that it's more readable.


I like it very much, it is more readble and much nicer then the old even on huge resolutions. Smile

CCP Punkturis wrote:
... there won't be a way to select fontsize. ... UI Scaling would be a better way to sort issues with the fontsize, but that's another project.


Since I have asked just for this feature, I'm a bit dissapointed that we can't change the font size. Please start the UI scale project asap. Smile

What about the font color change option? That would add a whole new way to customize the UI.

Peter



I will only add font color change option with different shades of pink Blink

(and no, we won't add that - sorry P)

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#126 - 2011-10-03 15:40:50 UTC
Praerian wrote:
Could we have next to targeted items shield, armour and structure percentage remaining.

i.e. when sov grinding or shooting capitals would be nice to see that are indeed at 50% armour not trying to guess where we are actually at.

I don't think we need the SH, AR & ST just the percentages would be good.


You're feature creeping!! Blink it is a good idea though. I'll see what I can do with it (not for the font changes though).

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Peter Drakon
Luminaire Traders and Builders
#127 - 2011-10-03 18:17:43 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
(and no, we won't add that - sorry P)

Aahhhhhhhh Cry
Li Mochou
Chien's Noobs
#128 - 2011-10-03 21:57:41 UTC
Just logged in to take a look at the different CQs...

Personally, I don't like the new font - it doesn't work. It looks messy and cluttered, reminds me strongly of late 90s linux desktops. Works best when text is fully capitalised, otherwise looks a bit like a free font.

It also seems much harder to scan, though of course am sure will get used to it.

For me it seems it, in general, would work better with significantly more padding; but then you would not be able to display as much information in the same amount of space (which is worse).

I don't mind it in the new log-in screens and large blocks of text. Just not for tables of information, tabs, etc...

FYI - I have 1400x900 resolution.
Rhaegor Stormborn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#129 - 2011-10-03 23:28:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Cirage wrote:
"You idiots better give us the ability to use the old font. God damn it. Quit ruining our game."

What's up with the language? Reading stuff like this make me wish I had a smaller font in my web browser.


All I see is a majority people telling them the new font is too large, and all they keep saying is well people want it larger, and they can't make everyone happy. They best learn to make all their customer's happy, or at least the majority, or that slope of active subs is going to keep declining faster and faster. It is the idiotic fearless corporate culture we have seen for the past two years that continues to perpetuate these poor game development decisions. Less fearless, more fearful, concerned, discerning, etc.

The font is too large. We do not like how it looks. Do not implement it as it stands. Rework it, redo it, and come back again for approval. Until you have it, do not go live with it.

People have played Eve for over 8 years with the current font. If it was "unreadable" people would not have been able to communicate in-game that entire time. This is obviously not the case. CCP needs to stop misrepresenting player sentiment internally to produce and change things which very few actual paying customers want or not, and moreso, do not want at all.

This font is terrible, and will affect all players way more than the CQ, or any other terrible change CCP has made lately. We can avoid docking, and turn off the CQ, but we will all be forced to see this terrible font wherever I go, whatever I am doing, and I can not stress enough how much I hate it, and many others do as well.

Not many people are currently aware of this new font, so the outrage has been relatively minimal, but almost entirely negative. Just wait until it goes live. It will be just like ship spinning. CCP will buckle after months of complaints and be forced to do what I am suggesting now. Rework it, fix it, and make something MOST people think looks good, is an appropriate size, and is "readable".
Psychophantic
#130 - 2011-10-04 00:07:54 UTC
To be fair there are a few people who will benefit from the larger font.

Those who are playing in their loungeroom on plasma and lcd tv's, and those playing it on laptops with ridiculous resolutions.

To say that it is a much called for change is a bit strange, I'm up to page 6 in the Issues board and see no mention of it.

I play on a 23" 1680x1050 and a 27" 1920x1080 and have no issues with and much prefer the current font.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#131 - 2011-10-04 02:27:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
Rhaegor Stormborn wrote:
Cirage wrote:
"You idiots better give us the ability to use the old font. God damn it. Quit ruining our game."

What's up with the language? Reading stuff like this make me wish I had a smaller font in my web browser.


All I see is a majority people telling them the new font is too large, and all they keep saying is well people want it larger, and they can't make everyone happy. They best learn to make all their customer's happy, or at least the majority, or that slope of active subs is going to keep declining faster and faster. It is the idiotic fearless corporate culture we have seen for the past two years that continues to perpetuate these poor game development decisions. Less fearless, more fearful, concerned, discerning, etc.

The font is too large. We do not like how it looks. Do not implement it as it stands. Rework it, redo it, and come back again for approval. Until you have it, do not go live with it.

People have played Eve for over 8 years with the current font. If it was "unreadable" people would not have been able to communicate in-game that entire time. This is obviously not the case. CCP needs to stop misrepresenting player sentiment internally to produce and change things which very few actual paying customers want or not, and moreso, do not want at all.

This font is terrible, and will affect all players way more than the CQ, or any other terrible change CCP has made lately. We can avoid docking, and turn off the CQ, but we will all be forced to see this terrible font wherever I go, whatever I am doing, and I can not stress enough how much I hate it, and many others do as well.

Not many people are currently aware of this new font, so the outrage has been relatively minimal, but almost entirely negative. Just wait until it goes live. It will be just like ship spinning. CCP will buckle after months of complaints and be forced to do what I am suggesting now. Rework it, fix it, and make something MOST people think looks good, is an appropriate size, and is "readable".


To be honest there has been quite a few positive replies also, but they are in different thread than this. However the font isn't live yet and as we all know, majority of players don't even read forums.

I for one have done very excessive testing about pros and cons of this update. I have weighted them and unfortunately there is plenty of more cons than pros on the table. Playing on 20" 1600x1200 resolution and font being too small hasn't been any issue so far - some single fonts have been little too similiar.

After this new font goes live, spinning numbers with variable width font will be horrible experience and I for one have been (and will be) dealing with those numbers on daily basis. Perhaps the ui department havent been playing with market orders too much? Having the wallet tabs as they are in test server at the moment pretty much proves the point... Have you even opened the wallet? That will be game breaker at least for me.

What comes to spaceflight this is how my ui changes from current. Picture isn't really too easy to interpret so lets just say that to keep all the windows what I use to keep open, I'll lose half of visible cargo slots, half of visible local names, all my chat windows will be slightly smaller and have much less and shorter rows in them. I won't be able to keep log open anymore and center "opening" loses about 3cm width. Game will still be playable with these modifications but I can honestly say that this is not an improvement - it is HUGE recession to my overview. This is the main reason why I still believe that when this well thought and executed font update goes to tranq - the reality bites back.

Lets say that half of the players think it is really good, nice or mostly ok. Quarter thinks there is something to fix but will live with it. Remaining quarter thinks that the size and other issues sucks ass. Is that a successful patch? How many percent were complaining about too small font? How many people were ready to write these kinds of "customer feedback forms" to make it better? Are there less sad pandas then? This is what I wait to see... :/

I've written few too many posts related to this already and I am truely sorry that I even have to. I am also sorry that specially you, Katrín, have to be the one reading stuff like this. I'm sure you have done your share really well and without any bad intentions. Sometimes things just end up differently than can be expected. Obviously there is always someone we could point finger to, but that would not solve anything. Stuff go to tree butt ahead and learn that described activity was only recommended while coming down. Regardless of the method of learning and 1 week headache, the lesson has been learned.

I may be the guy in that tree and bark at the wrong reason (font in this case) now. If that is the case I'm twice as sorry about these "feedback"-sessions and will keep my remaining sad pandas to myself. After the head-ahead-ache vanishes I prolly see the font in better and more shining light also. However if this ends otherwise, make sure you got plenty of warm milk, understanding, consolation and place to start a zoo .)

Person can only be as good she thinks she is. Being proud of things she does is a good start.
Keep up the work you're doing - that is what we (all?) want in the end.

-grey

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

Taiwanistan
#132 - 2011-10-04 03:22:20 UTC
jesus christ just use Times New Roman, or Calibri
it's all wrong, stop trying
there are people who do this for a living buy from them,

the new one is worse than the old one
the plug needs to be pulled now,
pull the plug now or rage later, but it's always rage later right?

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."

Equto
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#133 - 2011-10-04 04:34:50 UTC
I too hate the new font as my eve went from something that all the text seemed to "fit" to now everything seems to be creeping into the next windows area and some I think may be over extending out of the window. While I think that having all caps is stupid, at the current its better than this font and if It goes live I am not sure I could continue to play eve as it slightly hurts my eyes to currently look at.
Kern Hotha
#134 - 2011-10-04 06:00:11 UTC
I reiterate that if you're working this hard to shoehorn one font into the interface then you need to stop and refocus on actually designing a modern UI. There's no sense in putting all this time into an antiquated interface.

We distinguish the excellent man from the common man by saying that the former is the one who makes great demands upon himself, and the latter who makes no demands on himself.

Jose Ortega y Gasset (1883 - 1955)

Shahirahh Orgasana
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2011-10-04 13:25:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Shahirahh Orgasana
A whole lot of this "new font versus old font" angst would be completely avoidable if CCP would just make the whole UI scalable, including the use of industry-standard font rendering APIs with user-selectable fonts and font sizing.

Personally, I like the new font for the most part (yes, including the larger size!), but it does still have issues and I hate to see so many people fret over it. I could actually live with the old font for awhile longer if CCP needed time to rebuild the UI so it could render fonts and windows the right way.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#136 - 2011-10-04 13:42:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
I found the official thread \o/

I agree that in some places it is a little too large - overview tables and the selected item panel can use a slight tweak smaller in size - 10% or so. It will save a lot of space overall for UI - I know a lot of pilots already are snug on UI space on smaller screens.

I'm sure some people will want it larger, I think that falls down on CCP working on implementing that into their code for customization. I think the gentleman a few posts above me made a thorough description of where things are clearly issues through images.


I also agree that on some of the tables it is challenging to absorb the information on a quick scan - specifically on larger tables of information. I'm trying to identify why exactly, and I feel it has to do with the negative space. Here's my theory - I think the font's negative space doesn't scale up so well for reading large amounts of table information, when you hit near what I would say is around the 12pt mark, which seems to be used in some important places, like the overview and the selected items. The negative space isn't an issue at smaller sizes, such as in the inventory or in the info panels - but as you get larger, the thinness of the font doesn't work out so well towards providing readability in the flow through the negative space to absorb the information smoothly in areas where a lot of data needs to be processed quickly.


Overview has to be readable in under 1/10th of a second. Seriously.

As a PVP Pilot, I have a lot of information to look at in under 10 seconds - check distance, check hp, check shields, check module cycles, check enemy health, check ally health, give 4 different orders to 10 different people, check local scanner for any incoming reinforcements, check local for population spike for ambush, do manual maneuvering to maintain range, listen to friendly comms about their status.

In the amount of time it takes one rep cycle to go off, I have to do all that - so reading the Overview doesn't mean bigger is better. On the overview I probably have about 10 columns up - Tag, Icon, Name, Type, Distance, Velocity, Radial Velocity, Corp, Alliance, Militia - and I need them to fit in a readable space. I think dropping 1 or 2 points on Overview and Market tables will improve readability even for those who prefer larger fonts. I think this applies to the markets, although the justification for 1/10th second reading time might not apply there. :)


P.S. Can we maybe get a screenshot of the overview and a variety of objects on it with the current font size and maybe a 1 pt smaller font size to compare? Showing at least most of these columns as well? Tag, Icon, Name, Type, Distance, Velocity, Radial Velocity, Corp, Alliance, Militia

Where I am.

Lady SixSkies
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2011-10-04 17:52:09 UTC
I have just updated Singularity client in order to see new changes in effect.

As for the fonts, I just plain and simple don't like 'em. Yes, it is more readable than the previous one, fixes some issues as well, but it somehow looks wrong, and I don't think it has to do with getting used to it. I have 1920 x 1200 resolution and it looks too big.
McFly
Peanut Factory
#138 - 2011-10-04 18:43:37 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:

Hmm.. actually a lot of players complain about the font being too small. So making it bigger is helping them out. It's mostly people who play on high resolution screens.

It makes me a sad panda that you feel like I'm alienating our existing player base when I'm just trying to make them happy Sad

Because this font change is mostly for all the players that have complained about the old font (being too small, the letters looking the same etc.) - not to get new people to the game.


i play at 1920x1200, with 5 clients open most of the time, in all shapes and sizes to fit it on screen the way I like it. What I mean by screen real estate is that without the ability to scale the lowest screen res the client allows (1024x768) is horrible to use, windows that smashed down and worked fine are taking too much room. For a detailed overview with this font I'm being forced to dedicate 40% of the horizontal space of the client to fit the new font. Or we just stop using the details like velocity, corp, ally, transversal, etc...

That's where I'm having the issue. because I do play with small clients because I do play in nullsec and need scouts/tacklers/cynos/bridges/gunners on hand regularly.
Yung Trim
State War Academy
Caldari State
#139 - 2011-10-05 01:15:00 UTC
Text changes on POS modules when you are on-lining a module at 1 minute remaining and lower.

Proof
Lhorkas Thosis
Giza'Msafara
#140 - 2011-10-05 05:07:37 UTC
The problem of the new font is height and spacing. I think you're compelled to adjust the font to the size of each windows, tab, etc. The consequence is the total lack of regularity. Keeping good proportion size is what matter above readability of each letters and numbers which this new font fixes btw

The more you will try to adjust size, height and spacing to fit each window, the more irregular text will look. In the end, the readability will suffer.

For exemple, the overview has too many different sizes, the numbers are really too larges, texts are looking disproportioned. On the contrary, context menus feel nice because size, height, spacing are regular. I guess you have not to modify the font for context menus.

To conclude, the old hangar is going back (double-clic to open the active cargo, drag'n drop to change ship, yeah it is the old hangar!). Isn't it what we call a rollback ?
Do not take the same path with your new font. Release a perfect work or do not. Doing a rollback means a fail in a way or another.