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Question: should I claim my datacores now? or continue to save them ?
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Ezeri Dax
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2012-05-20 03:42:13 UTC
Hello everyone,

I just heard about the changes to the datacores, i have been collecting research points for about two years now and I was curious what the experienced eve industrialists who famously help in this channel, think of this change and how it is going to effect datacores as a form of income. and if their recommendation is to continue to store up research points until we need some extra cash or should I cash them out all now and then save them for when prices go up and sell them then?

thank you in advance for any advise anyone gives to me on this matter!
Spotted Jaguar Bheskagor
Black Cat Trade and Indutries
#2 - 2012-05-20 05:56:24 UTC
Buy your cores now from research points and sell for a rainy day.
Beledia Ilphukiir
Proffessional Experts Group
#3 - 2012-05-20 07:43:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Beledia Ilphukiir
They're changing the cost it takes to buy the cores to 100/core for everything. So unless they also alter the amount of RP you've collected, you'll only get half the amount of non-starship datacores with the same RP amount. If they do alter the RP amounts to compensate, you'll still have to pay the 10k ISK/core tax, so there is no reason not to collect them before the change. On the other hand if your research field now costs 150 RP/core, it's preferable to cash those in after the change, since the 50% more cores you'll get is well worth paying the new taxes on them.

EDIT: Relevant CCP source added:
Quote:

* THE DATACORES, IT'S OVER 9000?! Good point regarding mechanical engineering datacores, we will most likely spread this type out to all factions before release. Regarding the change itself, we will not actively adjust the RP amounts you have prior or after release. Which means players cashing in datacores that were worth 150 RP for 100 RP after release will get an advantage. Since the field multipliers are being removed, this change also means players will receive them slower, for 100 and 150 RP fields. But, since all of them now require 100 RP to be exchanged, it will be pretty balanced in the long run. R&D skills will unfortunately not be reimbursed as this profession is not going away - it will most likely be looked into and changed into a more active state separately in the future not to abandon players that invested time and effort into it.
Morikar
#4 - 2012-05-20 14:42:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Morikar
Are they actually getting rid of the ability to get datacores from R&D?

From what I've read, they are making them available via faction warfare, but I haven't read anywhere saying you can't still get them via research agents. So will we be able to get them both ways? Or was it published somewhere that you won't be able to get RP's from research agents after the change?

Edit: I read the dev blog posting about it just now and aside from changing the multipliers and adding the 10,000isk tax on getting them from research agents, they aren't going away. Most data cores sell for 200,000 - 300,000 isk, so why are people freaking out about the 10,000isk tax and multiplier change?
beor oranes
Tranquility Tavern
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2012-05-20 15:19:20 UTC
Morikar wrote:
Edit: I read the dev blog posting about it just now and aside from changing the multipliers and adding the 10,000isk tax on getting them from research agents, they aren't going away. Most data cores sell for 200,000 - 300,000 isk, so why are people freaking out about the 10,000isk tax and multiplier change?


Because before once you got you agents then it was pretty much free isk for no effort, now its going to cost people to retrieve them which people see as them losing isk, even though the market will compensate for the extra 10k isk.

I am going to collect mine before the patch and then go back to letting the RP accumulate and if they do decide to change it again, I'll get my datacores before they do.

In the long run its not going to change much, unless the amount of datacores you can get from FW is substantial and relatively easy then the prices wont change much except for an extra 10k isk per datacore (and mechanical ones will probably drop if you can get them from any races agents). If in the future they make R&D agents much more interactive then they that will change things but until they do that...
Morikar
#6 - 2012-05-20 15:42:45 UTC
beor oranes wrote:
Morikar wrote:
Edit: I read the dev blog posting about it just now and aside from changing the multipliers and adding the 10,000isk tax on getting them from research agents, they aren't going away. Most data cores sell for 200,000 - 300,000 isk, so why are people freaking out about the 10,000isk tax and multiplier change?


Because before once you got you agents then it was pretty much free isk for no effort, now its going to cost people to retrieve them which people see as them losing isk, even though the market will compensate for the extra 10k isk.

I am going to collect mine before the patch and then go back to letting the RP accumulate and if they do decide to change it again, I'll get my datacores before they do.

In the long run its not going to change much, unless the amount of datacores you can get from FW is substantial and relatively easy then the prices wont change much except for an extra 10k isk per datacore (and mechanical ones will probably drop if you can get them from any races agents). If in the future they make R&D agents much more interactive then they that will change things but until they do that...


That's what I figured. People are just freaking out over something really minor.

Having to give up 10,000isk on something that is basically pure profit seems like something rather silly to freak out about. And I do believe you are right, the market will just adjust and all the datacores will go up in price by 10k.
Tessla Coil
Pirannha Corp
#7 - 2012-05-20 15:57:31 UTC
Morikar wrote:
beor oranes wrote:
Morikar wrote:
Edit: I read the dev blog posting about it just now and aside from changing the multipliers and adding the 10,000isk tax on getting them from research agents, they aren't going away. Most data cores sell for 200,000 - 300,000 isk, so why are people freaking out about the 10,000isk tax and multiplier change?


Because before once you got you agents then it was pretty much free isk for no effort, now its going to cost people to retrieve them which people see as them losing isk, even though the market will compensate for the extra 10k isk.

I am going to collect mine before the patch and then go back to letting the RP accumulate and if they do decide to change it again, I'll get my datacores before they do.

In the long run its not going to change much, unless the amount of datacores you can get from FW is substantial and relatively easy then the prices wont change much except for an extra 10k isk per datacore (and mechanical ones will probably drop if you can get them from any races agents). If in the future they make R&D agents much more interactive then they that will change things but until they do that...


That's what I figured. People are just freaking out over something really minor.

Having to give up 10,000isk on something that is basically pure profit seems like something rather silly to freak out about. And I do believe you are right, the market will just adjust and all the datacores will go up in price by 10k.


You might want to check the FW LP store costs for datacores before commenting on how trivial this is.
Last time I checked, someone in a FW LP store could buy 5 datacores for 200K ISK and 200 LP.
The deve gave an example of someone killing a T2 Abaddon and collecting 8100 LP.
The sov markers they can kill can be worth as much as 10,000 LP.

So i someone gets 1 / 10th of a T2 Abaddon kill, they can buy 20 datacores for 800,000 ISK, or 40,000 ISK cost each.
Now tell me how this won't impact datacore prices much.
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-05-20 16:07:58 UTC
Morikar wrote:
...People are just freaking out over something really minor.

Having to give up 10,000isk on something that is basically pure profit seems like something rather silly to freak out about. And I do believe you are right, the market will just adjust and all the datacores will go up in price by 10k.

It is not just the 10k ISK that the whiners are freaking out about, it is also that most cores are going to cost 100 RP rather than 50. They are like, "OMG, OMG, OMG, my totaly passive income stream is cut in half!"

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Morikar
#9 - 2012-05-20 16:19:35 UTC
Tessla Coil wrote:

You might want to check the FW LP store costs for datacores before commenting on how trivial this is.
Last time I checked, someone in a FW LP store could buy 5 datacores for 200K ISK and 200 LP.
The deve gave an example of someone killing a T2 Abaddon and collecting 8100 LP.
The sov markers they can kill can be worth as much as 10,000 LP.

So i someone gets 1 / 10th of a T2 Abaddon kill, they can buy 20 datacores for 800,000 ISK, or 40,000 ISK cost each.
Now tell me how this won't impact datacore prices much.


Ahh...that would be a bit of a kicker wouldn't it? lol.

OK, so we're going from 300,000isk profit to about 30,000isk profit for the researchers. Still it's completely passive and requires no real work from the player aside from going to their agent and picking up the data cores.

Based on the changes, how many cores/day will you be able to farm now with max skills approximately?
beor oranes
Tranquility Tavern
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2012-05-20 16:34:56 UTC
Tessla Coil wrote:
You might want to check the FW LP store costs for datacores before commenting on how trivial this is.
Last time I checked, someone in a FW LP store could buy 5 datacores for 200K ISK and 200 LP.
The deve gave an example of someone killing a T2 Abaddon and collecting 8100 LP.
The sov markers they can kill can be worth as much as 10,000 LP.

So i someone gets 1 / 10th of a T2 Abaddon kill, they can buy 20 datacores for 800,000 ISK, or 40,000 ISK cost each.
Now tell me how this won't impact datacore prices much.


That will change things however until the changes actually hit TQ we wont know. Yes SiSi is a good guide but CCP in the past have not released the actual numbers on SiSi and when they hit TQ they have been known to be different. Maybe in this case they wont but maybe they will.

But you are also assuming that people in FW are only going to buy datacores, there are lots of other things in the LP store to buy. Plus killing a ship is something that people are actively doing and its not guaranteed that its going to happen regular like, where as R&D agents once set-up are passive (I know I have some myself). So on one hand you have risk free, continuous supply of datacores from R&D and risky, haphazard, irregular supply from FW...so a passive source should be more profitable than an active source, is that what you are saying?
Marsan
#11 - 2012-05-20 16:42:00 UTC
Certainly you'll want to buy datacores with RP before the patch, but you'll have lots of warning before this happens. (You may not want to buy star ship cores until after the patch..) The real question is post patch what is faction LP going to be worth. Given that the devs seem to want to put everything new and shiny out through the faction LP store. It won't be worth while to buy core with faction LP. Cores might just double in price, and we'll earn the same amount now. If lots of people join faction warfare then the value of faction LP will drop, and data core farming will be relatively worthless.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Tessla Coil
Pirannha Corp
#12 - 2012-05-20 17:47:08 UTC
Morikar wrote:
Tessla Coil wrote:

You might want to check the FW LP store costs for datacores before commenting on how trivial this is.
Last time I checked, someone in a FW LP store could buy 5 datacores for 200K ISK and 200 LP.
The deve gave an example of someone killing a T2 Abaddon and collecting 8100 LP.
The sov markers they can kill can be worth as much as 10,000 LP.

So i someone gets 1 / 10th of a T2 Abaddon kill, they can buy 20 datacores for 800,000 ISK, or 40,000 ISK cost each.
Now tell me how this won't impact datacore prices much.


Ahh...that would be a bit of a kicker wouldn't it? lol.

OK, so we're going from 300,000isk profit to about 30,000isk profit for the researchers. Still it's completely passive and requires no real work from the player aside from going to their agent and picking up the data cores.

Based on the changes, how many cores/day will you be able to farm now with max skills approximately?


I ran some math, and made some educated guesses.

Assume that the FW guys want to make 100% profit from their LP.
That means that they will be selling datacores at around 80,000.

Now, also assume the average indy char gets 2.0 datacores today. (It is 1.8 if the skill is 4, around 2.2 if at 5).
That number is being cut in half for the vast majority of datacores.
So now you will produce 1 datacore/day.

You pay 10,000 to get it from the R&D agent.
So your net profit is 70,000 ISK, compared to the 300,000 today.

Nah, not much of a hit at all.

Try calculating the payback period on the 40M skill book to use multiple agents.
Then factor in the time and effort to grind up the standings to use L4 R&D agents.

Yeah, this was a completely fair thing.
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-05-20 18:01:51 UTC
Morikar wrote:


Still it's completely passive and requires no real work from the player aside from going to their agent and picking up the data cores.



Sounds like PI to me. 6 toons doing it takes about 2 hours per day on 24 hour cycles for pickup, and collating the materials to the 2 manufactory planets. The twice a week Datacore pickup (btw, these RD Agents tend to be SCATTERED) takes at least an hour for complete rounds to pickup.

THIS is all time sacrificed away from "instant ISK" efforts such as Missioning and Mining and all the other things us High Sec folks do. In order for it to be profitable, those PI products and Datacores must be used and turned into something else like fuel blocks and spaceships.

Sarcasm: So you're 'right'. There is no real work involved at all besides pickups. Fuel Blocks and T2 spaceships are not important at all I guess.

Just because something looks like it's 'no real work', take a thought to what REALLY goes on with the stuff, and the actual PENALTY one already has from the hours of doing this, when other more profitable activities are available. The profits from the spaceships and fuel blocks are always going to be a gamble. And that's just 2 examples.

In short, this is just a change for changes sake. Too much of that crap lately. Like the new Inventory UI debacle unfolding on Sisi (and slapping you across the face this Tuesday).

Has anyone looked through the ISK Guide 3.0 lately ? The game is already so different and altered it reads like an ancient text. I'm just saying.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900
beor oranes
Tranquility Tavern
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2012-05-20 20:25:38 UTC
Tessla Coil wrote:
Try calculating the payback period on the 40M skill book to use multiple agents.
Then factor in the time and effort to grind up the standings to use L4 R&D agents.

Yeah, this was a completely fair thing.


But surely you have already made all that isk back already? as one month according to you makes you 90mil a char and I can't believe that you have just started doing this if you are that passionate about it being changed. Plus its not like you didn't get paid to do the missions to get the L4 R&D agents (not saying it was great isk but it was your choice to do it, CCP didn't force you to get R&D agents).

And who said they have to make changes to the game that is 'fair'? Something being 'fair' is subjective, what you think is a 'fair' change to someone else is an 'unfair' change. There are lots of people who think that you being able to train and skill for something for a couple of months and then have to put no effort at all into something that will give you something to sell is 'unfair'. Uncouple your feelings from this argument and you may just end up with more supporters.

The maths presented do say that it could end up being a big cut in price for the people who have R&D agents (however until the market settles down we wont know for sure and that'll take a couple of months) and it might make getting R&D agents less attractive, but is it a game breaker? No. Will it mean that people will quit en-mass? No. Will it mean a some alt accounts will go unsubbed? Probably. Will that number be critical to the survival of Eve? No.

There are so many more things that you could be whining about that would actually massively affect the game in a positive way, like the Industry UI and the click-fest it is. The change is coming, they aren't going to stop it now cos a couple of people are getting pissed on the forum about it, it would probably take a massive player out-cry for them to stop it now and because it isn't that big of a deal its not going to happen. Sorry. Get over it and move on or quit...
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#15 - 2012-05-20 20:33:52 UTC
Morikar wrote:
Still it's completely passive and requires no real work from the player aside from going to their agent and picking up the data cores.


The big lie, repeat it often enough so you might just believe it yourself.
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-05-20 20:36:58 UTC
Wyke Mossari wrote:
Morikar wrote:
Still it's completely passive and requires no real work from the player aside from going to their agent and picking up the data cores.


The big lie, repeat it often enough so you might just believe it yourself.


Same thing they said about PI when it is actually a rather meticulous, tedious, and exhausting activity to DO IT WELL.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900