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Let carebears be carebears (PVP Opt Out)
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Katja Faith
Doomheim
#181 - 2012-05-18 16:35:51 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Five Thirty wrote:
Non-consensual ship to ship combat.

Is that simple enough for you gankbears?


Their no such thing has non-consensual ship to ship combat in EvE Online, you make it consensual as soon as you login the game.


Be fair, you'd be pissed too if you got your boat violenced while docked in station.


Oooh, that sounds sexy... I think something just moved... :-p
RIP Wash
FISKL GUARDS
#182 - 2012-05-18 18:16:41 UTC
I would be surprised if this hasn't been posted here yet, but just in case.

CCP official stance on PVP flagging
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#183 - 2012-05-18 19:21:21 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I'll just leave this here:

http://stinkinguplocal.wordpress.com/2012/04/09/save-me-from-non-consentual-pvp/


Good blog poast! One of my favorite ways of "pvping" missionbears is to warp in on them and steal a mission objective and then put it up on contract. They can buy it off me if they want or they can fail the mission, lose the rewards/LP. Either way, I win! God forbid they would shoot my lowly frigate though. That would be terrible. If mission bears would shoot more maybe I'd stop. I hate ruining my fairly good K/D ratio. Lol
Ymmi Stenson
Future Overlords
#184 - 2012-05-18 21:40:12 UTC
AxelFuller wrote:
With the new War Dec mechanics it seems like there is no consideration to players who wish to take part in PVE activity only.

It would appear the only option available to none PVP type players is to stay in an NPC corp or join a large enough Corp which is unlikely to get War Dec'ed because of the cost.

What happened to Eve being a Sandbox allowing players to choose what they want to do.

A typical PVE player example which is no longer possible

1. I want to play Eve for fun and be a carebear
2. I want to run my own corp for me and my buddies
3. I don't want to take part in PVP so i live in hisec
4. Just let me play the game how i like to play it and leave me alone

It seems with the new War Dec mechanics players who want to run small scale corps for fun and carebear activities are now going to be extorted indefinately by PVP gangs. Misions runner corps, Minign Corps, Incursion Corps, ect will now be prime targets for small scale PVP gangs to extort leaving the carebeasr with no option but to return to NPC corps and ultimately bring an end to the player run corp's for PVE activities.

Before all the PVPers rage that a carebear shouldn't be safe, please hold that rage for another thread and debate... carebears pay there subscription like everyone else and should be allowed to play the game as they wish without being constantly griefed by other players which is basically what the new war dec mechanics will bring and the only way to avoid that is to be in an NPC corp where you can't gain the same control with your buddies from having your own corp.

How about an opt out of PVP option, is it really that important that eve becomes a completely PVP based game where carebears and new comers can't avoid being targetted and killed?

The argument that a carebear can stay in an NPC corp is flawed becuase that carebear might want to run a 5 man corp with himself and his RL friends, so they can meet up chare a corp experience and do the things together they liek to do in Eve, simply saying to those guys right you now have to go and join an NPC corp to be safe is a little unbalanced in favour of the PVPers as that same 5 man corp will disband, join NPC corps and miss out on all teh features which were available to them in a small corp such as sharing hisec POS rights, corp management roles and leaders.

Finally this may sound liek a big carebear crying but i'm simply trying to work out how this new mechanic will be balanced in favour of all players rather than just those PVP corps who will now be able to grief carebears and extort them which is a little unfair considering they pay to play a game we all share.
Then stay in NPC corporation and pay that 11% tax for your protection.
yopparai
ASTARTES CORP
Hashashin Cartel
#185 - 2012-05-18 22:55:31 UTC
I agree that a war dec mechanics based on member size is bullshit, and it is gonna suck even more than it does now to be in a small PVE corp.

That being said one of the core pillars of EvE is that no one, no where, is ever truly safe.

Either learn to be a wolf in sheep's clothing or continue to be picked on.

Yopp
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#186 - 2012-05-19 01:59:51 UTC
I think ccp pretty much summed up their feelings on the subject in the latest dev blog video

I especially like the dev talking about in cloaking your new stealth bomber in front of an unsuspecting miner...
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#187 - 2012-05-19 02:34:22 UTC
ITT: Carebears crying that they either have to join an npc corp and pay 10% tax on their carebearing, or face possible pvp which also hurts their carebearing bottom line.

Eve is eve because there is no place where people's hands are tied. No pve server. No mommy to keep you from getting ganked if someone wants you dead.

Pay your 10% mission tax and like it if you don't want to get war decced.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#188 - 2012-05-19 10:47:34 UTC
AxelFuller wrote:

1. I want to play Eve for fun and be a carebear
2. I want to run my own corp for me and my buddies
3. I don't want to take part in PVP so i live in hisec
4. Just let me play the game how i like to play it and leave me alone




Just noticed #2. Being in a Player Corp, and getting all the attendant organizational and morale benefits thereof is your way of saying to the rest of EvE: "Hey, I've put my Big Boy Pants on now, and I'm ready to interact with the rest of the Players in a bigger way."

This means wardecs, big boy. The CHOICE to participate in a Player Corp comes with Benefits and Risks. You Risk Wardecs, and gain the Benefits of being in a Player Corp (POSes, Corp Hangars, the Pod Express, Corp Channels, and Tax Isk).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Death Toll007
Perkone
Caldari State
#189 - 2012-05-19 18:19:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Death Toll007
OP: I love posts like this. They remind me there are people out there who will cry as I hunt them, camp them, and pod them. It is good to know I can still find sustenance.

I am a PvPer... my ambrosia is carebear tears, and my passion is their whimpering posts.

Thank you for adding fulfillment to my gaming existence.

-DT
Ugor Batarr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#190 - 2012-05-20 16:05:19 UTC
Five Thirty wrote:
Dibblerette wrote:
It also allows freedom for other players in big ships to do nasty things to your carebearmobile.


Schadenfreude isn't really a good basis for a gaming community.


Pirate
Seriously? Show me a MMO with a PVP element and I'll show you a MMO with griefing, trolling and lots of Schadenfreude.
And EVE is widely known to be one of the best and mature gaming communities - despite all the trolling and tear-harvesting.

That is the very reason why MMOs got so popular. It's loving entertaining to beat the virtual **** out of other players. You know they become butthurt when you're 'better then' (sic!) them. Even in WOW where PVP is absolutely meaningless people DO PVP - and boast and gloat about it.

Nobody keeps you from being a nice person in EVE. Just don't force that playstyle on others as it would make EVE a pretty boring place and I'd become a sad Panda if I hadn't any bad persons to shoot at.
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#191 - 2012-05-20 16:51:48 UTC  |  Edited by: bongsmoke
My advice, get a jump clone, find a quiet null sec location in NPC space, move some bpo's out there, run some missions in frigs,destroyers,cruisers. Salvage everything with a destroyer for making ships/equipment. You will gain some experience in null a little money, and when the war dec drops, then jump clone back to hi sec for missions for money.

War costs money, if your war decced and they can't find you cause your in null sec, they wont keep paying money for no war targets.
Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#192 - 2012-05-20 16:55:39 UTC
If there is so loving for PVP and all that come with it, why not pressure the CCP to remove all NPC and make everything player owned?
That would be paradise for core PVP players and free will for all.

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !
Kamden Line
Sovereign Citizen and other Tax Evasion Schemes
#193 - 2012-05-20 18:28:40 UTC
Five Thirty wrote:
Zoidberg Gahiji wrote:
It's certainly a good thing to kill what made EVE what it is today, what makes EVE special and what defines EVE's core. What lets it stand out against its competition and made it successful to begin with. An omni present sense of danger is as fundamental to EVE as fantasy to WoW is and has nothing to do with griefing.

Complaining that there is PvP in a PvP game is ridiculously moronic and stupid. If you don't like PvP don't play a PvP game. End of story. And if you think EVE is not a PvP game you certainly do not even comprehend what you are actually playing.

This whole thread is nonsense.


Listen to me and don't make assumptions.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT REMOVING PVP.


PvP will still exist in every facet of the game, except high sec griefing of people who are not interested in PvP.

The argument is that the amount of actual carebears is small, so I'm still waiting for someone to come along and explain what the detriment to PVP would be if 1000 people who actively avoid pvp were suddenly immune to it?



The detriment would be inflation on a massive scale. UO was sunk in this way when one half of the playable world suddenly became safe carebearville. This is the reason why PVP exists in every facet of EVE and partially the reason why the War Dec system is getting buffed - CCP has realized that suddenly making everything safe-carebearville makes ISK making to easy - leading to massive inflation.

The other thing to is, EVE is a game that precludes stupidity, since stupidity often leads to dying to another player. If EVE was suddenly UO2, I imagine the general IQ drop in the population would be a sight to behold, with the forums turning into something reminiscent of Runescape.
Dominic Braga
Doomheim
#194 - 2012-05-20 23:52:29 UTC
Of course there is an opt-out, just stop playing EVE like I have. Most of the player base doesn't want us carebear types around, apparently, and CCP is mostly indifferent. So, why bother staying?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#195 - 2012-05-21 00:34:43 UTC
Dominic Braga wrote:
Of course there is an opt-out, just stop playing EVE like I have. Most of the player base doesn't want us carebear types around, apparently, and CCP is mostly indifferent. So, why bother staying?


Then why are you still here?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Kroenan
Kr Corp
#196 - 2012-05-21 10:40:14 UTC
If EVE is such a sandbox then why are the benefits so heavily stacked towards PVP?

PVP ships can be both cheaply trained and bought. That isnt sandbox, that is proactively encouraging PVP through the dynamics of the game.

The fact is that CCP love PVP players. PVP players are most likely to fund 2+ accounts and make their playerbase look good and bring more RL cash to balance books.

Build a 5 man corp and close it the minute you get wardecced and start over again. Its a pain but if its the same folks griefing you they will probably give up in the end. Its not an ideal workaround but its the only one available and part of the way the game works.

I quit originally because because I was part of a medium sized corp that was consistently wardecced and 90% of the time i couldnt play because there were red tags everywhere.

People have set up external comms and websites and dont bother setting up ingame corps, which is another alternative.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#197 - 2012-05-21 10:42:51 UTC
Kroenan wrote:
If EVE is such a sandbox then why are the benefits so heavily stacked towards PVP?


Because in a single-shard sandbox, there is no "only PVE" option. The whole concept of PVP/PVE is alien to EVE.

If you want to PVE, choose a single player game, you don't even need an internet connection.

.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#198 - 2012-05-21 11:24:12 UTC
Kroenan wrote:
If EVE is such a sandbox then why are the benefits so heavily stacked towards PVP?

PVP ships can be both cheaply trained and bought. That isnt sandbox, that is proactively encouraging PVP through the dynamics of the game.

The fact is that CCP love PVP players. PVP players are most likely to fund 2+ accounts and make their playerbase look good and bring more RL cash to balance books.

Build a 5 man corp and close it the minute you get wardecced and start over again. Its a pain but if its the same folks griefing you they will probably give up in the end. Its not an ideal workaround but its the only one available and part of the way the game works.

I quit originally because because I was part of a medium sized corp that was consistently wardecced and 90% of the time i couldnt play because there were red tags everywhere.

People have set up external comms and websites and dont bother setting up ingame corps, which is another alternative.


Being in a Player Corp means that you have stood up, taken off your diaper, and put on your big boy pants to say to the rest of EvE: "Hey, you, come and Get Me. I'm done hiding under the skirts of the NPC corps." In other words, you gain the benefits of a Player corp (Taxes going somewhere instead of the void, easy channel management, corp hangars, POSes, etc) only at the cost of the risk of wardecs. If the Cost (wardecs) exceeds the benefits, you shouldn't have stood up with your big boy pants on, cause you've gone and soiled yourself again, so it's time to wipe yourself off and go back to the Pampers for a little longer.


Eve is a MULTIPLAYER sandbox. You can do whatever you want; the game will not stop you. Other players can do whatever they want; the game will not stop them. Sometimes, what they want will interfere with what you want. That's what we in the biz call PvP. Sometimes it's market, sometimes political, sometimes forum, and sometimes it's even violencing people's boats.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front - Reborn
#199 - 2012-05-21 12:00:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Ynot Eyob
I havnt read everything that everyone have written, so some might have answered what im about to say.

EVE is a PVP game

That said, I do know how you fell as we have been in it so many times and being in an alliance with 70% industrials i tend to listen to it every time we have a war running.

I belive the new system, gives an opitunity for those getting decced now, to get the help they need. Something they couldnt before. It will become posible to hire mercs to defend you instead trough contracts, or have another friendly corp help you out and join the war.

When you start a corp, you need to get your contacts in order and relize what it involves to run a corp. This include the posibility to be war decced.

I have lost alot of good friends who have stopped playing the game because of war decces, but on the other hand iv lost alot of good friends because they didnt get the action they needed. In both cases EVE might just not be the game for them, or they should be in a NPC corp to do what ever.

The Sandbox you talk about has nothing to do that people can do what they want, but that the enviroment changes because of the actions taken. You and some friends desided to form a corporation together, because of this action you now become a valid target for some other players. Lets say one of your friends get into an awesome fight, and start liking the PVP side. He deside to leave your corp and join EVE-Uni to learn more. There he get in touch with a 0.0 player from another corp, who exsplain to him how he can do plexes (PVE) and fight with friends at the same time and he deside to move there. Now THATS the sandbox.

Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#200 - 2012-05-21 19:51:28 UTC
If you want to know the real source of the problem here, it's that every fool and nancy wants to start his own corp and thinks he has the in-game knowledge to make it successful. A good corp will have to have some experienced pvpers who can teach those who don't know much or invest most of their time in other activites (industry, logistics, etc). The key is crosstraining. Sure, we all know EVE has a million skills and it takes forever to get really good at one thing. However, the smaller your corp is, the more crosstraining you're going to have to do.

- All miner corps die because they can't defend themselves. Their only options is to stay docked and hire mercs.

- All carebear corps die because they have zero pvp experience. They have no mentor and are too afraid to lose anything. They are like hoarders, but their trash of choice is ISK. They can't get rid of a penny unless it's on a ship to make them moar ISK carebearing.

- All industrialist corps die because of the same reasons above.

What needs to happen is these stupid tiny corps with no good leadership need to dissolve and join larger/better corps with people who actually know the multiple facets of this game. With numbers and experience comes protection, and the next time you get wardeced you'll have the resources and know how to effectively punish those who dec'd you.

Fact of EVE: Most CEO's are crap. Most Directors are even worse than crap.