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Tengu Counter - Solo
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Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#21 - 2012-05-15 07:19:43 UTC
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
Elistea wrote:
Proteus will make Tengu cry.
Considering u get into optimal range fast enough.


...and THAT is why your proteus dies.


Why would the fight always start so far away Big smile and with Tengu's applied dps, there is no hurry really.

Catching a 100MN AB Tengu is relatively easy with an MWD Proteus with faction web, but you need a webber drone to hold the tackle, and that is easily popped. Soon we get light webber drones, which will be standard accessory on every Proteus, and they are much harder to kill with missiles... and Proteus has enough space for at least two flights of them in addition to combat & ECM drones.

MWD Tengu has a very thin margin of error due to Proteus' extended scram range.

However breaking a pimped Tengu tank with blasters is the real issue, and a buffer Proteus struggles to do it solo. Active tanked Proteus is unkillable by solo Tengu as well.

Buffer Proteus vs kiting Tengu is a very long fight, which Tengu eventually wins, but Proteus is free to leave before that happens. Tengus are very weak against ECM drones.

Trackind disruptors will soon affect missiles, and this might bring the Tengu in balance, but I'd still like to see a dps nerf. Currently it is harder to kill than other ships in game, while having supreme damage projection- 700dps at 110km that always hits at full damage to any BC+ hull is a bit rich.

.
Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#22 - 2012-05-20 01:22:57 UTC
I can't see how the proteus is adequate since kin/therm are the tengu's highest resists. That is a very bad idea and an uphill battle.

You want to shoot emp which, even if patched, is the lowest resist. So you want a projectile weapon, or a laser with scorch.

If it's a ratting fit in a region where rats don't do emp damage even single a trasher would give it an extremely hard time. Basically any ship that tackled it with good emp dps would kill it.
Noisrevbus
#23 - 2012-05-20 02:13:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Noisrevbus
The Loki have all the important features, assuming both ships are 100mn variants.

The speed.
The webs.
The tank.
The EM-output on a turret.

All the other Tech III are functional in armor-configs, just be weary of the HAM-Legion, since missile-on-missile over mitigation fits will turn into a never ending slapfight.

What most people tend to forget about the Tengu is that it has the weakest offensive to it's own kind of defensive. Tengus will kill anything that's not fit to deal with HML while relying on HML or BS-turrets themselves (which account for 90% of current trends). That's why the unimaginative complain about Tengus.

That's also why most other 100mn setups beat Tengus, since it can never overcome it's dumbfire accuracy to a tank made to counter just that. That goes for solo as well as for various gang comps that have not been tried well enough, yet. Assuming both sides begin webbing and controlling each other, all other weapon systems will begin connecting earlier (which applies to the accuracy mechanics in general, not just with 100mn).
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#24 - 2012-05-20 06:10:15 UTC
Noisrevbus wrote:
The Loki have all the important features, assuming both ships are 100mn variants.

The speed.
The webs.
The tank.
The EM-output on a turret.

All the other Tech III are functional in armor-configs, just be weary of the HAM-Legion, since missile-on-missile over mitigation fits will turn into a never ending slapfight.

What most people tend to forget about the Tengu is that it has the weakest offensive to it's own kind of defensive. Tengus will kill anything that's not fit to deal with HML while relying on HML or BS-turrets themselves (which account for 90% of current trends). That's why the unimaginative complain about Tengus.

That's also why most other 100mn setups beat Tengus, since it can never overcome it's dumbfire accuracy to a tank made to counter just that. That goes for solo as well as for various gang comps that have not been tried well enough, yet. Assuming both sides begin webbing and controlling each other, all other weapon systems will begin connecting earlier (which applies to the accuracy mechanics in general, not just with 100mn).


Truth, right here. Your biggest problem is overcoming however many billions of ISK they spent on the tank. Your standard < 3B Tengu isn't that big of a deal.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-05-20 13:59:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:
I've seen a tengu killed by a solo trasher. Bad fit and moronic pilot.

It all depends on the tengu's fit and catching it.

Sure a bhaalgorn or a vindicator or machariel would **** one but no thinking tengu pilot would engage those ships so it's hardly worth considering unless you have someone else for tackle.

Ideally you'd want to catch one on a bubble to start the fight at close range and put a scram and 2 webs on it. And neuts. An armor cane would be ideal and I've seen a couple tengu kills from them just blast emp through that gaping hole.


There's only one thing wrong in your reasoning. How much do you think a scram works or bothers a 100MN AB Tengu?

Now, pick an armor Loki double bonus web that can perma run MWD and rep cap stable, catch it fingers in tha nose, spank it, smack in local.
If you put as much isk in your Loki as you'd put in your Tengu, Loki is the perfect Tengu predator.

brb
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-05-20 14:13:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Roime wrote:
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
Elistea wrote:
Proteus will make Tengu cry.
Considering u get into optimal range fast enough.


...and THAT is why your proteus dies.


Why would the fight always start so far away Big smile and with Tengu's applied dps, there is no hurry really.

Catching a 100MN AB Tengu is relatively easy with an MWD Proteus with faction web, but you need a webber drone to hold the tackle, and that is easily popped. Soon we get light webber drones, which will be standard accessory on every Proteus, and they are much harder to kill with missiles... and Proteus has enough space for at least two flights of them in addition to combat & ECM drones.

MWD Tengu has a very thin margin of error due to Proteus' extended scram range.

However breaking a pimped Tengu tank with blasters is the real issue, and a buffer Proteus struggles to do it solo. Active tanked Proteus is unkillable by solo Tengu as well.

Buffer Proteus vs kiting Tengu is a very long fight, which Tengu eventually wins, but Proteus is free to leave before that happens. Tengus are very weak against ECM drones.

Trackind disruptors will soon affect missiles, and this might bring the Tengu in balance, but I'd still like to see a dps nerf. Currently it is harder to kill than other ships in game, while having supreme damage projection- 700dps at 110km that always hits at full damage to any BC+ hull is a bit rich.



Do you realise the major problem around Tengu/drake is not the ship it self but the ammo?
One of the major problems you have with this kind of setup is not the ship it self but the off grid booster.

As you just said, the regular T2 fit Tengu is not that much of a problem but thing is that some, for whatever unreasonable argument, assume a standard Tengu is a 3billion or whatever billions fit witch is completely wrong.
Whatever T3 with a 3billion fit just becomes a monster, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Difference between a regular 100MN AB T2 and officer/dead space speed is just completely insane, add a cloacky boost alt and you get speeds beyond reason, and Tengu strength is not that much it's dps with this kind of fit that turns around 600 rather than someone's dream 1K, it's the ability to easily tank huge amounts of punishment because of speed tanking.

If dps was a real strength then Proteus is definitively overpowered since you can get out of it above 1100dps with pimp fit.

Now, pick a regular 100MN AB T2 fit, take the off grid boost element out of the equation and you have something not even close to impressive.

brb
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#27 - 2012-05-20 14:15:46 UTC
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
Bait dardevil, warp in bhaalg. Tengus love small frigates.


clearly having 2 ships is soloing.....
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