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Issler Dainzer should be removed from the csm.

First post
Author
Commit Sudoku
Perkone
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-05-19 17:33:50 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Herp derp, let's make vaccuous and disjointed derogatory guestures, because that will make our arguments valid.

It's 'vacuous', since the word was derived from the latin vacuus meaning void or empty, like my soul after lina's fiery furor was forfeit to that feline foe.
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-05-19 18:10:33 UTC
Tippia wrote:
HVAC Repairman wrote:
The argument that a certain segment of the player base was using was that the only reason people were throwing a tantrum was because it was the Mittani who did it, not because of what he did. If the leader of EVE Uni had been on the CSM and did the exact same thing, it would have never been an issue. The vast majority of the people who were calling for the Mittani to step down/get banned did not give a **** about the player who was mocked and only used it as a political excuse to go after him. Which to me, is every bit as bad as what Mittens did.
…as demonstrated by the fact that the “outrage” came, not when he made his controversial statements, but when he was re-elected chairman.
Pok Nibin wrote:
It isn't a small thing, and it certainly isn't "just because it was Mitt."
The timing of the whole thing tells a slightly different story, though…

That may be relevant to you, however, such excuses, or attempts at mitigation don't usually fly when put before a judge.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

Torneach
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-05-19 18:16:46 UTC
Uhm, so it seems like the CFC members really don't like this Issler CSM person.

First thread I saw about this 'incident' was from a member of Goonswarm.

This thread is from a member of TEST.

I dunno, seems like this Issler person is someone to rally behind if he's making all these CFC people mad, for the lulz if nothing else.
Prince Kobol
#44 - 2012-05-19 18:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
I completely disagree.

I believe that Issler should stay on the CSM as she provides great comedy value.

Yes she is possibly the worst ever CSM Member, yes she has no clue what so ever, yes she continuously makes a complete and utter fool out herself, yes she continues to show a total lack of understanding about game mechanics.

For all the reason I have mentioned above she must remain on the CSM as an example of when people vote for somebody just because they do not like somebody else, instead of putting there personal feeling aside and voting for those who actually stand for something and have the ability to make things happen.

Issler is an example of the very worst person that can be elected on the CSM and should be used for years to come what can happen when people let there person issues get in the way of making a educated decision,

Long live the worst CSM Member in the history of Eve
Commit Sudoku
Perkone
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-05-19 18:18:37 UTC
if you want to rally behind someone who claims THE CSM and ccp are out to get him because his lowsec towers got owned I guess.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#46 - 2012-05-19 18:20:24 UTC
Pok Nibin wrote:
That may be relevant to you, however, such excuses, or attempts at mitigation don't usually fly when put before a judge.
Good thing, then, that it's neither an excuse or an attempt at mitigation, but an accusation.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#47 - 2012-05-19 18:20:29 UTC
Commit Sudoku wrote:
if you want to rally behind someone who claims THE CSM and ccp are out to get him because his lowsec towers got owned I guess.

"Highsec miners"

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Torneach
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-05-19 18:20:32 UTC
Commit Sudoku wrote:
if you want to rally behind someone who claims THE CSM and ccp are out to get him because his lowsec towers got owned I guess.


Like I said, for the lulz if nothing else. Lol
Commit Sudoku
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-05-19 18:23:28 UTC
as a big proponent of lulz i can respect that, I also ironically quote animes and terrible webcomics to get a rise out of people so we do have some common ground, you and me
Prince Kobol
#50 - 2012-05-19 18:30:14 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Commit Sudoku wrote:
if you want to rally behind someone who claims THE CSM and ccp are out to get him because his lowsec towers got owned I guess.

"Highsec miners"




Hey Hey Hey

Issler does not stand for High Sec Miners.

In my spare time I am a High Sec miner and I have disagreed with every single word that moronic idiot has ever said / typed.

Issler does not stand for anybody expect herself and a tiny handfull of brain dead morons


HVAC Repairman
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2012-05-19 18:30:33 UTC  |  Edited by: HVAC Repairman
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
HVAC Repairman wrote:
The argument that a certain segment of the player base was using was that the only reason people were throwing a tantrum was because it was the Mittani who did it, not because of what he did. If the leader of EVE Uni had been on the CSM and did the exact same thing, it would have never been an issue. The vast majority of the people who were calling for the Mittani to step down/get banned did not give a **** about the player who was mocked and only used it as a political excuse to go after him. Which to me, is every bit as bad as what Mittens did.


I've seen this argument used a dozen times by Goons and it doesn't fly with me. That's the thing - the leader of the EVE Uni wouldn't have called for people to encourage someone to commit suicide. He didn't call for people to encourage someone to commit suicide - Mittens did. You can get into all these hypotheticals until the sun turns black and it won't make a bit of difference - it was Mittens that did it, and it was Mittens that got punished for it. To be honest, I think he got off incredibly lightly for a man who was essentially implying that a living human being should be encouraged to end their own existence - a 30-day ban and forced resignation from one CSM is an incredibly lenient punishment when I personally know people who've been permabanned for less.

Here's a hypothetical question for you - if the offending person had been a member of Raiden. or NCDot, or a large hi-sec alliance... no, wait! I've got the perfect example. What if it had been Jade Constantine? I don't think there's a single member of Goonswarm who likes Jade Constantine. Jade seems like an excellent person for this hypothetical.

What if it had been Jade Constantine who had done what Mittens did? Would Goons be so quick to leap to Jade Constantine's defense if he'd violated the EULA in such a manner? Would the Goons be clamouring for him to be allowed to stand on the next CSM, or would they be calling for a permaban? Or would they just not care?
If the same scenario happened under the same circumstances with Jade instead of the Mittens I have no doubt that there would a certain element of the game that would go after him. My issue was never that people targeted Mittens for what he said nor did I say that there shouldn't be a punishment of some sort. My issue was that a significant amount of people that went after him were doing so by feigning interest in the the welfare of an ice miner instead of just admitting that it was politically calculated move. Ultimately, I think what we would have seen was a small core of players offended either way, a group of players go after Jade as a slap in the face to him, a portion of players blindly defend him, and a lot of players not caring/see this as a big deal.

Would certain goons go after Jade? In all likelihood, yes. Would they use a pubbie ice miner to masquerade our agenda? Most likely not, considering the member level guys hate pubbie miners with a passion.

edit: Hit reply too soon Cool
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
WE FORM V0LTA
#52 - 2012-05-19 19:17:13 UTC
HVAC Repairman wrote:
If the same scenario happened under the same circumstances with Jade instead of the Mittens I have no doubt that there would a certain element of the game that would go after him. My issue was never that people targeted Mittens for what he said nor did I say that there shouldn't be a punishment of some sort. My issue was that a significant amount of people that went after him were doing so by feigning interest in the the welfare of an ice miner


Given that I've had to cope with suicidal acquaintances, yes, I was genuinely concerned for the welfare of a human being whom Mittens encouraged people to drive to suicide. I've also seen substantial evidence that it wasn't a careless drunken outburst. Personally I don't hold much sympathy for ice mining or mining in general as a profession (I don't, for example, get upset about Hulkageddon. I just encourage all my miner friends to do something else for a month), but I think you underestimate the level of genuine human sympathy present among players of this game.

HVAC Repairman wrote:
instead of just admitting that it was politically calculated move.


That said, I don't deny that a lot of people were just crying crocodile tears and rallying behind The Wis to get at Mittani. But that's the thing, see - Mittens has intentionally constructed this persona of Internet Spaceships Douchebag Supervillain, daring people to get as angry and hateful at him as they can possibly manage. He's basically the Goon of Goons - daring people to get as furious at him as they possibly can, and laughing madly when they do.

Well guess what? He deserves hearty congratulations, because it worked. People hate Goons. People hate Mittens. People get angry at the mere thought of your existence, and the existence of your leader. You are the scourge and unstoppable rage-generating shitmachine that you guys always wanted to be. There's no denying that. But you can't expect to do that and then also expect the very same people you've so deeply enraged to treat you objectively. You can pick one, or the other, but not both. Mittens put himself in a position where he couldn't afford to make the mistake he made, made it anyway, and then Goons acted surprised that things turned out the way they did.

The Wis was a convenient weapon for the people Mittens angered to use against him, and the Goons can't really complain that they did. You kind of made your own bed here.

HVAC Repairman wrote:
Would certain goons go after Jade? In all likelihood, yes. Would they use a pubbie ice miner to masquerade our agenda?


Yeah, I think some of you would, and you damn well know you would, too. Oh, of course, you'd do it with even less sincerity than the crowd that went after Mittens, but please let's not be disingenuous - you know there's some Goons who would feign sympathy for an ice miner if it served their agenda (which in this hypothetical scenario would be "getting Jade Constantine banned for lulz"). That's just how politics works.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#53 - 2012-05-19 19:38:58 UTC
you do know that the mittani supported the jita protest and told people to unsub so that ccp would change...
how is this different?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-05-19 19:44:24 UTC
I love self owning threads. Big smile
HVAC Repairman
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#55 - 2012-05-19 19:48:10 UTC  |  Edited by: HVAC Repairman
edit - ugh firefox is messing with me again
HVAC Repairman
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2012-05-19 20:01:38 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Given that I've had to cope with suicidal acquaintances, yes, I was genuinely concerned for the welfare of a human being whom Mittens encouraged people to drive to suicide. I've also seen substantial evidence that it wasn't a careless drunken outburst. Personally I don't hold much sympathy for ice mining or mining in general as a profession (I don't, for example, get upset about Hulkageddon. I just encourage all my miner friends to do something else for a month), but I think you underestimate the level of genuine human sympathy present among players of this game.

That said, I don't deny that a lot of people were just crying crocodile tears and rallying behind The Wis to get at Mittani. But that's the thing, see - Mittens has intentionally constructed this persona of Internet Spaceships Douchebag Supervillain, daring people to get as angry and hateful at him as they can possibly manage. He's basically the Goon of Goons - daring people to get as furious at him as they possibly can, and laughing madly when they do.

Well guess what? He deserves hearty congratulations, because it worked. People hate Goons. People hate Mittens. People get angry at the mere thought of your existence, and the existence of your leader. You are the scourge and unstoppable rage-generating shitmachine that you guys always wanted to be. There's no denying that. But you can't expect to do that and then also expect the very same people you've so deeply enraged to treat you objectively. You can pick one, or the other, but not both. Mittens put himself in a position where he couldn't afford to make the mistake he made, made it anyway, and then Goons acted surprised that things turned out the way they did.

[redacted] was a convenient weapon for the people Mittens angered to use against him, and the Goons can't really complain that they did. You kind of made your own bed here.

Yeah, I think some of you would, and you damn well know you would, too. Oh, of course, you'd do it with even less sincerity than the crowd that went after Mittens, but please let's not be disingenuous - you know there's some Goons who would feign sympathy for an ice miner if it served their agenda (which in this hypothetical scenario would be "getting Jade Constantine banned for lulz"). That's just how politics works.


So, you essentially agree with me? All I ever stated was that the majority of the people gunning after Mittens did it because they see him and GSF as internet spaceship satan. Yes, there was a core group that would have been offended either way, I never dismissed that. I never once argued that Mittens didn't step over the line or that he should get off without some sort of punishment. The only things I've ever publicly stated that I found the people who used the well-being of an ice miner as a political rallying cry to wave a battle flag for their own personal agenda just as offensive as anything Mittens has or ever will say.

As for Jade, I'm so glad you put words in my mouth of what I would or would not do. Personally I have no issues with him, and on occasion do get a laugh at how well he sometimes baits people. I can't say for certain what I would or would not do, but I wouldn't use a highsec ice miner as an excuse to go after him. I have no doubt that there would be some people gunning for Jade, but you certainly wouldn't have seen it in the numbers of people who went after Mittens nor would you see a majority of the same people attacking Mittens attacking Jade, which is the only point I'm really trying to make.

tl:dr butts lol burn all of hisec
Commit Sudoku
Perkone
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-05-19 20:01:46 UTC
every time I hear fire I see her red locks
linaaaaaaaa

Anyway why are there 5 threads about this bull **** come on folks
Dawn Flare
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-05-19 20:03:48 UTC
Zhihatsu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-05-19 20:09:07 UTC
Caldari Citizen 786478786 wrote:
As if the flood of tears in the first GOON thread weren't delicious enough, their nut-hugging pets from TEST have arrived to show us all real meaning of whining on the forums.


Goons don't really do the whole "pet" thing. They really aren't into the whole "padding their space with people they don't like" thing, either.

Goons tend to shoot people they don't like. Hell, Goons tend to shoot people they DO like, for fun. All these people that you refer to as "pets", likely because you think they have no voice or something (idk, really). They are all friends of Goons. They like Goons, and Goons like them.

Goons don't abandon their friends, like certain alliances did with their "pets". If Raiden. or whoever decides to try and take a swipe at an ally, and that ally looks like they might not handle it, Goons will come and help out if asked. Not for any cost, or payment or anything. Just to help out a friend in need.

So you can take your little "pets" business and turn around and go back to whatever corner of space that you call home and enjoy your little ideas on your own time.

People without faces have no mouths with which to speak.

Dawn Flare
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-05-19 20:13:35 UTC
Zhihatsu wrote:
Caldari Citizen 786478786 wrote:
As if the flood of tears in the first GOON thread weren't delicious enough, their nut-hugging pets from TEST have arrived to show us all real meaning of whining on the forums.


Goons don't really do the whole "pet" thing. They really aren't into the whole "padding their space with people they don't like" thing, either.

Goons tend to shoot people they don't like. Hell, Goons tend to shoot people they DO like, for fun. All these people that you refer to as "pets", likely because you think they have no voice or something (idk, really). They are all friends of Goons. They like Goons, and Goons like them.

Goons don't abandon their friends, like certain alliances did with their "pets". If Raiden. or whoever decides to try and take a swipe at an ally, and that ally looks like they might not handle it, Goons will come and help out if asked. Not for any cost, or payment or anything. Just to help out a friend in need.

So you can take your little "pets" business and turn around and go back to whatever corner of space that you call home and enjoy your little ideas on your own time.

But no one has friends in EVE!!! Don't you know that you Goons are all sheep who mindlessly follow Mittens, and bully all us renter alliances into posting exactly what you tell us to post?

(I'm still waiting for my rent bill after a year in the CFC, btw, amd I gonna have to pay interest?)