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The end is Nigh! Making more mining hisec ores in Covetor than ratting in nul!
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Shea Valerien
House of Valerien
#21 - 2012-05-18 16:56:29 UTC
Not sure why this is a bad thing. Mining is painful - it should be rewarded.
Josef Djugashvilis
#22 - 2012-05-18 17:02:21 UTC
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
So?

I make more money picking my nose than you would in your drake or your coveter


I thought one was supposed to snort illegal drugs not gold dust?

This is not a signature.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#23 - 2012-05-18 17:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
According to jita mineral values (on buy orders) and using a hulk that has a 1406 m3 per minute yield (1234 per minute without mining drones, 3702 per cycle) pyro gets

*drum roll*

17,282,833.20 ISK per hour given you're mining only normal pyro (solid and viscous give more of course) and you're doing it constantly without any time spent on doing ore drop offs (so you'd need an orca alt or something) and you have perfect refien skills with no tax.

Try again?


Proofs!:

1,406.00 m3/min x 60min = 84,360.00 m3/hr

http://eve.grismar.net/ore/ -> pyro value is 204.87 ISK/m3

84,360.00 m3/hr x 204.87 ISK/m3 = 17,282,833.20 ISK/hour

Mineral Values Used:
Tri 6.07
Pye 7.50
Mex 53.03
Noc 776.12

Strip miner cycles are 3 minutes long, if they were 1 minute long like normal turreted ones then your value would be 51,848,499.6 ISK/hr....so I think you're in for a mega facepalm....

P.S. Jaspet is 18,264,783.60 ISK/hr or 54,794,350.8 ISK/hr in "1 minute cycle dreamland"

The Drake is a Lie
Benf Hawlr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-05-18 17:52:07 UTC
Confirming OP is wrong. Hi sec rocks are small and unprofitable. Grav sites are few and far between. Much too much trouble to scan down and logistically drive your profits near zero. Nothing to see here, please continue ratting in null, move along, move along.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-05-18 18:39:30 UTC
Two points. One, you said highsec, waste alot of time finding those rarer highsec jaspet deposits.

Two. You said ratting in drake.

Try something with higher damage output, compare again.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#26 - 2012-05-19 04:51:06 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Strip miner cycles are 3 minutes long, if they were 1 minute long like normal turreted ones then your value would be 51,848,499.6 ISK/hr....so I think you're in for a mega facepalm....

P.S. Jaspet is 18,264,783.60 ISK/hr or 54,794,350.8 ISK/hr in "1 minute cycle dreamland"

My my, that's certainly... telling.

Some miners don't even know about their strip miners?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#27 - 2012-05-19 05:03:34 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
Strip miner cycles are 3 minutes long, if they were 1 minute long like normal turreted ones then your value would be 51,848,499.6 ISK/hr....so I think you're in for a mega facepalm....

P.S. Jaspet is 18,264,783.60 ISK/hr or 54,794,350.8 ISK/hr in "1 minute cycle dreamland"

My my, that's certainly... telling.

Some miners don't even know about their strip miners?


Is that really so different than a guy that thinks that using a drake as a benchmark is a good idea?

The Drake is a Lie
Pres Crendraven
#28 - 2012-05-19 05:59:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Pres Crendraven
He compared the same investment though. Covetor is making 25% ROI. 1 bil tengu is making 16. You can roll your own covetor. A noob corp can double that ROI. It takes a bit before an Orca is cost effective but a couple hauler alts boost it even further. close to 60%. per hour. If you lose one a month per man thats still 30%. I really don't think that would happen in corp ops with multiple eyes on the field.

I've never lost a ratting ship in null so over time the tengu would catch up since there is no risk in null. unless you put in 3 billion into it. then if you throw in a carrier. Now that makes economic sense, about 5 billion for, can you even make 100m/hr anymore? what is that 2% per hour?

Just think how much more isk could be diverted to pvp if corps invested in mining ships instead of 5billion isk ratting setups? WHy a large mining group could conceivably be ready to wipe out goons in a few months if the guys would work for plex and ship replacements.

Meta34me

Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent.
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-05-19 06:03:48 UTC
Celeste Benal wrote:
Did the maths. You read it right. I am now making more mining pyro and jaspet site in hisec than I am ratting in Fountain with my main using a Drake.

Numbers:
Covetor: pulls 3386.19 m3 per cycle solo, giving me 40-45M isk/hr on jaspet and pyro.
Drake: I get 8-10M ticks running anoms for 24-30M isk/hr

So it seems I would have to improve my isk/hr in nul by 50% to make up the difference. Or I could just move this toon down there and mine Prime Ark for 75M isk/hr.

It is now official: Ratting sucks.


CCP are aware of the problem and are working on fixing the problem.

They plan to nerf Drakes.
Pres Crendraven
#30 - 2012-05-19 06:31:52 UTC
Nerf the covetor

Meta34me

Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#31 - 2012-05-19 07:07:11 UTC
Pohbis wrote:
knulla wrote:
It sucks with a lot more risk compared to something with barely any risk at all, not to mention the mining can be botted or done afk 99% of the time. We know and we wait for CCP to fix their game.
LOL

A lot more mining ships are killed in hi-sec, than ratting ships ratting in their own Sov.

Also, Drake is about the slowest ratter you can find. The other is a V skill ship ;)

None of it matters tho, no ISK is generated by mining, as opposed to ratting.

CCP is not rewarding miners, the market is.


Mining -> Minerals -> Ships -> Insurance -> ISK Faucet

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#32 - 2012-05-19 08:55:55 UTC
Well this is a new thing

















HINT: NO IT'S NOT, YOU SPERG-MONKEY
Cunanium
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-05-22 22:51:27 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
And thus it comes full circle, as I confidently predicted it would. Null-sec pilots are displeased about the relative safety and profitability of the mining profession. Instead of whining, they instigate a large series of (perfectly legitimate) countermeasures to lower the safety of mining and destroy the assets of miners. Miner ability to meet demand is diminished, but demand for minerals increases due to increased number of ships being destroyed. Supply cannot match demand. Mineral prices rise, and thus so do the prices of everything depending on them. Those miners that are left are able to sell their product at an inflated price due to the efforts of the null-sec dewllers. Hulkageddon will end soon, and high-sec miners will come back out to mine again. In the current market, they'll make a lot of money. Null-sec pilots will soon become displeased with the relative safety and profitability they enjoy.

The cycle will repeat.

This is how the market works, guys. If you disrupt the supply of a commodity, it will become more valuable, and those still able to produce it will make more money selling it.



Hm...

Hazard has always been present in high sec mining (how long ago was the first hulkageddon?), there has been no large "pressure" on high sec miners, especially those who are organized and know what they are doing (ie multiple hulks on the field with orca support all tanked/RR'ed, local concord spawns in the belt to reduce ease of popping said hulk...)

The recent spike in mineral prices is more closely related to two major, key events. First is the reduction in the amount of minerals that can be mined with the a gun, i.e. low meta drops, drone drops, salvage drops. The second reason for the spike in prices is the banning of something on order of 500 RMT accounts, i.e. mining bots. The large supply of high sec minerals provided by these bots caused a pressure on human miners to move to more profitable measures, (lvl 4 mission running) instead of mining veld. Without this large supply, naturally, the profitability of high sec mining operations is going to approach, if not exceed, other risk comparable isk producing activities.

You may be on the right track, but it is not any recent small (burn jita) activities that have caused prices to spike. Anyone who believes that burn jita, hulkageddon, or any other localized event produced any more stress on the local industry infrastructure that a major nullsec campaign need to get their head checked.

As for the OP... you failed high school math and are a failed ratter. Drake = failsauce ratter. It is easy to get 20+mil ticks with less investment than high sec ratting and with typical pvp skills.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-05-23 00:06:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie-A Tassik
Celeste Benal wrote:
Did the maths. You read it right. I am now making more mining pyro and jaspet site in hisec than I am ratting in Fountain with my main using a Drake.

Numbers:
Covetor: pulls 3386.19 m3 per cycle solo, giving me 40-45M isk/hr on jaspet and pyro.
Drake: I get 8-10M ticks running anoms for 24-30M isk/hr

So it seems I would have to improve my isk/hr in nul by 50% to make up the difference. Or I could just move this toon down there and mine Prime Ark for 75M isk/hr.

It is now official: Ratting sucks.


So the "helping miners" excuse was used to nerf Non Goon Null Space.

But having accomplisted this, we now need to make sure Miners don't benefit from the boost to them.

Thus you make up stupid BS story about "mining Jaspet in High Sec". I assume you mean Grav sites as that is the only location with Jaspet in High Sec.

Well, sites with Jaspet ain't big and they need to be scanned down first.

Now, if I have an infinite line of pre-scanned Grav sites with no travel time for gettting to the site and a refinery station in every system with a site and no competition, why then I imagine it is quite profitable!

In other words, Goon, this post is not up to the usual standards of ******** Goon nonsense.
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