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New dev blog: With Friends Like These... - New Ally System

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CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2012-05-18 18:42:20 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Navigator
For as long as EVE has been around, players have formed alliances both formal and informal to fend off threats and defend space turf and honor. Inferno will completely revamp the whole framework that helps you manage your wars and will hopefully support you all in creating plenty of heart warming, violent memories <3

CCP SoniClover has written a blog about the new Ally System that will allow you to formally draft others to help crush your enemies. Check if out right here and be sure to leave us your feedback.

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard
Avila Cracko
#2 - 2012-05-18 18:43:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Avila Cracko
first

edit:
And you know whats the funniest part about all this "war changes"?
You did not solve anything.
You even didn't implement the main thing that you talked about and that is commitment.
Attacker can war dec without any consequence at all.
And they dont have any commitment on that war, just don't pay and you are out.
And defender have onle one option and that is to become ISK cow for an "Ally".

Only consequence that attacker might have is that defender make war mutual (and they have only 24 hour window for that) and then look for ally to make some problems for attacker - and even that you want to remove. Roll
And easy way for attacker to remove and that problem is to quit/kill corp and make a new one. And we all know that that is no problem at all for them because 95% of attackers are griefers that grief on their alts.

I don't see what you want accomplish.
You only want to help griefers and screw other players?

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Metis Laxon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-05-18 18:52:06 UTC
second
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 - 2012-05-18 18:52:28 UTC
you're all my allies, true story!

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
CCP Paradox
#5 - 2012-05-18 18:55:07 UTC
All the allies!

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#6 - 2012-05-18 18:59:08 UTC
Quick , bring out more blue paint!

How to win EVE
Sgt Napalm
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-05-18 18:59:39 UTC
Reserved

I dislike the poster above.
ShadowMaster
#8 - 2012-05-18 19:00:22 UTC
Just for some clarification.

Red Federation is in a mutual war with Blue Republic.
Some crazy fool declares war on Blue Republic.
Can Red Federation come to the aid of Blue Republic as an ally?

From what I can tell your rules section does not say anything against that, but I just wanted to make sure.

Quote:
A corporation/alliance cannot join as an ally against a corporation/alliance they are already at war with.

X is at war with Y
X cannot join Z as an ally against Y

Quote:
Similarly, if you’re already an ally against someone, you cannot declare a separate war against them or join as an ally against them again. Basically, ally status counts as being at war with the aggressor corp/alliance, so anything that would create a new war state between them cannot happen

X is an ally of Z against Y
X cannot declare war on Y

So yea, neither of those negates our situation.
Ranshe
Blackwater Task Forces
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-05-18 19:10:22 UTC
Now that we (will) have a functional ally system, could you please apply it to the Faction Warfare? It's weird that we're at war with the Minmatar *and* Gallente, but the Caldari remain as neutrals - and this is a perfect place to put this in. Of course this should be unbreakable, just like the war between factions is.
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#10 - 2012-05-18 19:11:30 UTC
"The only way for a mutual war to end is if one side surrenders."

A little, tiny bit worried about that. What if both sides want to end the war, but neither is willing to surrender to the other?

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#11 - 2012-05-18 19:12:29 UTC
Pl0x get the crimewatch dudes to at least implement the RR docking aggression system ASAP, otherwise, why get allies when neutrals can help with no risk?

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!
Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#12 - 2012-05-18 19:13:27 UTC
Mechael wrote:
"The only way for a mutual war to end is if one side surrenders."

A little, tiny bit worried about that. What if both sides want to end the war, but neither is willing to surrender to the other?


Ask Israel and Palestine.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#13 - 2012-05-18 19:23:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
So defenders can bring in as many allies as they want for no cost other than the fee that the ally requests?

You realize that what this does is make it even less attractive for the Average Joe corp to declare war on people they have legitimate grievances with since they will be able to bring in an infinite number of allies and the attacker has no means to respond.

Rather than doing something to address the fact that wars are "underutilized" all this and the cost changes does is draw an even greater dividing line between people who do wars as their primary form of gameplay and everyone else in highsec by making starting a war so undesirable for anyone whose primary form of gameplay isn't wars that it will never be worth declaring war on someone who's done you wrong.

Post expansion war will be an even less viable option for 99% of highsec inhabitants than it is now. This expansion is a joke, and the advertisements that refer to it as "war fueled" are fraudulent.
wallenbergaren
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-05-18 19:25:39 UTC
What happens if your corp joins an alliance you're allied against?
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#15 - 2012-05-18 19:26:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Adriel Malakai
My biggest problem is that it doesn't cost a defender anything to bring allies into a war. What this will lead to is groups like mine joining wars as allies for free. All this will do is deter war decs and wreck the merc market.

What you really need to do is put in an ISK fee that goes to CONCORD for each ally, and increases for each ally you bring in (preferably, with the same mechanic/multiplier of war decs). This will encourage people to only spend allies that are worth the money (ie good mercs/dec corps) rather than bringing in any old corp off the street.

This also has the added advantage of limiting allies based on the ISK of the defenders, similar to how the ISK of the aggressors is the limit to the number of wars they can be in.
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-05-18 19:26:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternal Error
Congratulations on killing off the war system in Eve Online. I don't know why I'm bothering to post since you seem to have completely ignored the feedback in the "War, Modules, and Super Friends" thread, but here goes.

There is no limit to the number of allies you can have. Given the new cost of war, every (large) high sec war deccing corp is going to be an ally in as many wars as possible for free. This will rapidly result in no one in their right mind war deccing anyone (and ruin the mercenary market). /thread

This expansion sucks, and is in no way "war themed." Please consider the mountains of legitimate feedback you are getting in these threads, and please take note of the fact that it is overwhelmingly negative.

EDIT: The solution proposed in the post above mine (essentially a concord tax on allies) is a good one, and also adds a new ISK sink to the game. Another one would be to limit a decced corp to calling one (or maybe two or three, or make it vary depending upon the size of the ally) ally per week that the dec is active. Additionally, unless you want the prices of mercenaries to nosedive towards zero, you should put some form of hardcap on the number of wars a corp can be called into as an ally.
Callic Veratar
#17 - 2012-05-18 19:27:05 UTC
ShadowMaster wrote:
Just for some clarification.

Red Federation is in a mutual war with Blue Republic.
Some crazy fool declares war on Blue Republic.
Can Red Federation come to the aid of Blue Republic as an ally?

From what I can tell your rules section does not say anything against that, but I just wanted to make sure.

Quote:
A corporation/alliance cannot join as an ally against a corporation/alliance they are already at war with.

X is at war with Y
X cannot join Z as an ally against Y

Quote:
Similarly, if you’re already an ally against someone, you cannot declare a separate war against them or join as an ally against them again. Basically, ally status counts as being at war with the aggressor corp/alliance, so anything that would create a new war state between them cannot happen

X is an ally of Z against Y
X cannot declare war on Y

So yea, neither of those negates our situation.


Yes it does.

Red is at war with Blue
Green declares war on Blue
Red CANNOT ally with Blue as that's a new war state (ally) between Red and Blue
However, Red can declare war on Green if they so choose
Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#18 - 2012-05-18 19:31:46 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:

Post expansion war will be an even less viable option for 99% of highsec inhabitants than it is now. This expansion is a joke, and the advertisements that refer to it as "war fueled" are fraudulent.


I think your estimate is a bit off. I think a large part of what the expansion's purpose was to correct a lot of the problems with the current mechanics. (except they forgot neutral RR cough cough)

If someone screwed you really hard, you'd pay the 50M+ to get get them anyway. If it isn't worth 50M they must not have pissed you off THAT bad. It's what, a couple level 4's? It shouldn't be that bad, unless the guy cleaned the corp wallet out and you used it as your personal wallet... then your prob screwed regardless.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-05-18 19:33:50 UTC
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:

Post expansion war will be an even less viable option for 99% of highsec inhabitants than it is now. This expansion is a joke, and the advertisements that refer to it as "war fueled" are fraudulent.


I think your estimate is a bit off. I think a large part of what the expansion's purpose was to correct a lot of the problems with the current mechanics. (except they forgot neutral RR cough cough)

If someone screwed you really hard, you'd pay the 50M+ to get get them anyway. If it isn't worth 50M they must not have pissed you off THAT bad. It's what, a couple level 4's? It shouldn't be that bad, unless the guy cleaned the corp wallet out and you used it as your personal wallet... then your prob screwed regardless.

And you will then be blobbed into station by the dozen corps that are called as an ally and are looking for good fights and free targets. The price IS an issue in my opinion, but the ally system is worse.
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#20 - 2012-05-18 19:36:02 UTC
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:

Post expansion war will be an even less viable option for 99% of highsec inhabitants than it is now. This expansion is a joke, and the advertisements that refer to it as "war fueled" are fraudulent.


I think your estimate is a bit off. I think a large part of what the expansion's purpose was to correct a lot of the problems with the current mechanics. (except they forgot neutral RR cough cough)

If someone screwed you really hard, you'd pay the 50M+ to get get them anyway. If it isn't worth 50M they must not have pissed you off THAT bad. It's what, a couple level 4's? It shouldn't be that bad, unless the guy cleaned the corp wallet out and you used it as your personal wallet... then your prob screwed regardless.


It's not the ISK for the war that's the problem. The problem is that defenders can bring in unlimited allies for literally 0 ISK. So the only people who will actually declare wars are the full-time dec corps/mercs. Everyone else will either disregard or hire mercs for an offensive dec.

I can say that my alliance will be joining as many wars as we can, for 0 ISK, just for free targets. Many of the merc groups/dec corps/alliances will be doing the same thing for the free decs they'll get.
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