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CSM7 Summit Topic: The State of Incarna

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#21 - 2012-05-18 07:05:56 UTC
Two step wrote:
I don't disagree with all that stuff, but I think I (and many others) need to see a clear, step by step plan from CCP on how they want to get there. They simply don't have enough people to give both spaceships and Incarna they level of resources to make your vision a reality any time soon. I think they could get there eventually, but I think the key is going to be having real meaningful gameplay in Incarna first, and then expand from there. If people *want* to walk around and shoot stuff or something, they will be a lot more willing to have CCP devote more resources to the walking around part of the game.



One obvious way for CCP to square the resources circle is to use unpaid labour. Rathre than spend thousands of paid man-hours designing station interiors, release the tools and let us do it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#22 - 2012-05-18 07:09:09 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
One obvious way for CCP to square the resources circle is to use unpaid labour. Rathre than spend thousands of paid man-hours designing station interiors, release the tools and let us do it.


Getting Jessica and other tools ready for players to produce quality interiors and clothing would surely be useful for WoD and future titles, after all.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-05-18 07:38:39 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
tbh I think the lesson we should take away from last year is that we need to know what Incarna is able to do before we start discussing what we want it to do. There's little point making suggestions for this idea or that if the engine eon't support them. A "State of Incarnation" devblog from the Incarna Team would be most welcome: give us the techporn!

How close are we to multi-avatars?


Seriously, this. Are some of you forgetting how godawful even the cabin performs? My GPU goes nuts, the controls are awful/sluggish, and that's just in a room with nothing going on and nowhere to go. How bad do you think that'd be with anything else to load, let alone possibly hundreds of other players - Jita 4-4 anyone?

All this talk of skins and custom outfits and environments won't amount to anything if the engine displaying all of that stuff doesn't provide a welcome experience, and right now, it's straight-up awful.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Avila Cracko
#24 - 2012-05-18 09:04:37 UTC
Ill just leave this quote here:


Quote:
Bloodpetal wrote:
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:

@Bloodpetal - Not sure I approve of the idea of F2P eve, how does it fit into eve lore vs character/capsuleer creation? Secondly, you suggest going from F2P to sub, would you suggest the other way around, from sub to F2P (which would make NO sense imo).


It actually does make perfect sense.

PLEX = Pilots License Extension Program..

No PLEX = No License = No Flying.

You can be a capsuleer and not be able to fly, and vice versa.

As a trial player, you would start as a capsuleer able to fly, when your trial ends you can walk around stations and interact, etc. When you're ready to fly again, you pick up a PLEX and become a licensed pilot and can fly again.

It's so obvious it hurts actually.


The more I think about it... the more i see that this is the most brilliant idea. Attention
It would make things for CCP easier (to follow industry in changes of payment model - one part can be F2P) and it would be the only way that current EVE players can accept F2P model (no much influence in space part at all).
And EVE would get more players, CCP more money, and old players would still be happy - and many more players would pay for PLEX too see whats the space they are living in so space part would get more pilots. And space part would get new content connected to WiS part.

This would be for CCP real reason to invest more in WiS.

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Hroya
#25 - 2012-05-18 11:21:54 UTC
I have to agree with Malcanis that we would need to know what it can do before we want to discuss what it should do according to everyones opinion.

That said i would strongly urge that any incarna interaction, be it market, agents etc with your avatar remains allways optional.
Some people want to play avatar, others dont.

A next step for expanding on incarna could be to put a simple advertisement scheme on the big screen in the CQ for corporation/alliances. Maybe even optional through the aurum system if so enclined.

Since we cant have multiple avatars in the same room at this time, a sort of webcam chat via the big screen with another avatar ( default view is current avatar layout from the character creation screen) for a bit more "social" engagement.

It isnt much and surely not everyone likes it, but it's a technical feasabillity that could work for many i think.

You go your corridor but.
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#26 - 2012-05-18 12:42:50 UTC
What I would like to see is fairly simple (to explain).

First, anything and EVERYTHING that you can do currently in the ship-spinning hangar, must ALWAYS be available in the ship spinny hangar.

Second, I would like to see multi-avatar rooms set up, if you can get them to load properly (Corp Offices).

Along with that, something that stuck in my head from a ways back was the idea of the Public Corp Office and the Private Corp Office (Public being something that anyone in the station could wander into a la public chat channels most corps have), and the Private Corp Office would be something only members would be able to access.

Looking into the future, to FPS-in-Stations, during wartimes you could invade the other person's Corp Office (Public and private), but you'd need specialized equipment/skills to hack into the Private Office, past defenses the Corp has (probably) set up against you (CONCORD would still wtfpwn you in-station if you try it and you're not at war). This is quite a ways out and I KNOW it has loopholes an Avatar could fly through, but it's a fun idea.

Third, I'd like to be able to put my items from my hangar into my CQ/Office (strippers, janitors, Gallente/Caldari Light Marines/Militants/tourists/etc), and rearrange them to my liking (a la SWG back in the day, if you can remember that, where you could move something A amount on the X axis, B on the Y, C on the Z axis until it was JUST so). My first thoughts on this were ammo, but after considering how massive even a Small missile/projectile/hybrid charge/crystal probably was, that's probably not feasible. Anything that is put into the Corp Office CAN BE YOINKED by anyone with (for example) Decoration permissions.

Fourth, Common Areas, whether it's just the viewport a la Dust 514's pre-mission thing (and the first EVE is Real video before the Judas talked to the Dusters) or actual establishments, I don't really care. This would be the non-Corp-specific area, where anyone on the station has a chance to get out and see everyone that isn't ship spinning/watching stuff on their CQ big-screen/off pewing in space.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#27 - 2012-05-18 12:56:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Malcanis wrote:
Two step wrote:
I don't disagree with all that stuff, but I think I (and many others) need to see a clear, step by step plan from CCP on how they want to get there. They simply don't have enough people to give both spaceships and Incarna they level of resources to make your vision a reality any time soon. I think they could get there eventually, but I think the key is going to be having real meaningful gameplay in Incarna first, and then expand from there. If people *want* to walk around and shoot stuff or something, they will be a lot more willing to have CCP devote more resources to the walking around part of the game.



One obvious way for CCP to square the resources circle is to use unpaid labour. Rathre than spend thousands of paid man-hours designing station interiors, release the tools and let us do it.


I just suggested that a few posts above, applied to the development of clothing. But certainly could be used for any WiS art assets, which apparently are the biggest choke point.

Some clarification as to what stands between us and Incarna would be useful.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-05-18 13:14:37 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
One obvious way for CCP to square the resources circle is to use unpaid labour. Rathre than spend thousands of paid man-hours designing station interiors, release the tools and let us do it.


Getting Jessica and other tools ready for players to produce quality interiors and clothing would surely be useful for WoD and future titles, after all.

Time to peniscape: 0.01 seconds.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-05-18 13:31:44 UTC
Go on with Incarna, but remember to keep the content as primary force driving it. Give corps and alliances reasons to want it (like the upgradeable headquarters I've talked before about).

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#30 - 2012-05-18 13:35:23 UTC
THX to CCP Punkturis for accidentlaly reminding me my avatar to-do list: Lol

Avatar customization options:

- the ability to move the lips (simulated orbicularis oris and buccinator muscles) to show the teeth and make some actual smiles

- a range of face/arms/shoulder moles and birthmarks (would rock to have a Gurista bunny birthmark... )

- more hairstyles (racial hairstyles included, specially replicating the old avatars')

- earrings, not piercings, but actual EARRINGS (chandeliers, hoops, studs, drops...)

- rings, necklaces, wristbands & other jewels

- use the sleeve tattoos technology to legs in order to add socks/stocking/tights to be worn under skirts/shorts

- what about painting fingernails? And what about painting foot nails and wearing sandals?

- Lavander/violet/plum lipstick & eyeshadow (pretty much please... how difficult can be?)

- fantasy colors for hair: electric blue, lime green, cherry red...

- a shade intensity slider for hair colors, like the one in make up colors (if technically possible)

- NEx (cough) prices down by 70% + release of the 100+ Sisi / market tab undelivered items


Avatar fixes:

- squint eyes

- bra strap bug for old Incursion characters (gotta write that script, pleeeease?)

- squint eyes

- tight clothes wrap around the bottom of larger breast sizes... which looks unrealistic and quite awful

- did i mention squint eyes?
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#31 - 2012-05-18 15:26:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
I really want some more work to be done on WiS.

To be more specific, the first thing I want to see is the corp offices. After that, I think its important that the WiS area (Such as CQ and the Corp Offices) be customizable in some way. We need more customization options in general. We could use some more cloths. Having said this, I still want Eve to retain its dark sci-fi theme. No electric pink stuff, ever.

I personally want to see Incrana added as a social tool. PvP in stations doesn't interest me in the slightest.

Generally though, I want to show my enthusiasm for WiS. I think most of the fuss caused by Incarna was just bad timing, poor comunication and a generally crap expansion. I dont want to see WiS die because of one semi-failed attempt.

The kind of features I'd like to see in Corp Officer etc include things like betting (mini-games etc), and a screen where you can watch another players screen on a TV in the corp office. FCs could have an advisers that sits in station watching the scouts' screens and relaying information back, or public displays from big battles happening in nullsec (like news crews), or simply people who can't make it to a fight can still watch it. It would also be nice to be able to display corp bulletins and things in the corp offices on screens rather than opening up new windows.

Thats all, pretty much.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Myxx
The Scope
#32 - 2012-05-18 16:56:12 UTC
Kill Aurum, permanently.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#33 - 2012-05-18 17:10:36 UTC
Corporate/Alliance meeting rooms, later to be fully fledged "everyone" venues. I'd love to be able to stroll down a type shopping gang-/boardwalk when entering a station.

Basically all the things they had planned before they chickened out Smile
Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
#34 - 2012-05-18 17:24:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Shepard Book
Two step wrote:
The State of Incarna - The CSM does not want to be in the dark about where CCP is looking to take this feature.

What would people like to see Incarna do?


I was actually looking forward to establishments, contraband ( I was planning to start manufacturing for it and open my own bar Cry ) I would still like to see gambling too.

Another idea would be to put guns on the stations we could man Blink Destructible stations made since to me too. Abandon the station LOL
RAP ACTION HERO
#35 - 2012-05-18 17:35:28 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


One obvious way for CCP to square the resources circle is to use unpaid labour. Rathre than spend thousands of paid man-hours designing station interiors, release the tools and let us do it.


I don't think CCP would be willing to release tools of their super secret carbon engine space station environment design tools to the public, seeing how they love to reinvent the wheel. As for other items such as clothes, CCP's Art Department currently has an iron grip like control on all things designs and aesthetics, and for a good reason, keeping Eve Eve. Player designed content would be a horrible idea Eve would quickly degrade into a freakshow cesspool 9 out of 10 instances with people's genuine bad taste (and troll items) and all kinds of copyright infringement I guarantee you.
CCP staff would then be inundated with crap submissions, taking all day to review (ie alliance logos, they already take too long to implement) and reject, then petitions will be made oh god why you no approve my pantalons? As CCP needs more crap to deal with. It's just better and more efficient if everything is done inhouse.

vitoc erryday
Erik Finnegan
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
#36 - 2012-05-18 17:53:15 UTC
While the vision displayed in the Fanfest trailer is certainly intriguing, I still want "social spaces" as a blank canvas to RP on. Social space in the sense that I do not need to watch my back for monsters or other Capsuleers not shoot, devour, poinson or otherwise kill me.

Speaking of killing, I am somewhat anxious to the backstory inclusion of out-of-pod adventures. Out of pod, Capsuleers are mortal. Why would Capsuleers do that while not in the security of a station ?! Or will we also have DUST merc implants so to save our consciousness if we're killed ?!

Since Incarna likely appeals above average to the PvE-inclined players, why not allow the planning / exploration / optimization of ring mining operations from station environments ? Also, position special agents at bars (you may need to defeat them at a board game to get the mission), and possibly such NPCs which players can "program".

I want to dock and unpod in my corp's nPOSes. Yes, for the fun of it. But maybe you can use a minigame that you must win to broadcast political messages that reduce the influence (aka buffs) of the ruling alliance ?

And I want to be able to physically enter my item storage at a station and see all the modules, both in assembled and repackaged shape ! Blink
Darklord Ky
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-05-18 18:15:24 UTC
I'd Like to see the characters be more fluid. the way the move now is painfull. Give some thought to have them act more like you would for a shooter. i was disapointed that little things like the ability to jump wasn't added. I'm not saying the should be able to dance or any thing but not being able to move in a fluid fashion.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#38 - 2012-05-18 18:24:36 UTC
I am hoping we some smart incremental approach. Start with walking in exporation/hacking sites for example. Or corp and alliance rooms with actual functionality.

I fear a giant sweeping " a whole new game in itself" plan would never be delivered.

Can't wait to see what we hear!

Issler
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#39 - 2012-05-18 18:36:36 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Stations are safe. Always. Forever. No excuses. Once docked, nothing bad happens to you unless you do something. That's not unusual, it's the degree of safety enjoyed by traders in the market tab. Say no to ganking in stations.


Hell no. Stations should be destructible. Nothing should be invincible, and everything should be built by the players. This is the sandbox.

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Casual friendly endgame.


EVE has no endgame. It's just the sandbox, and you're in it from day one.

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Allow to make meaningful progress in small steps. 1,000 small steps lead to a goal, rather than require hours logged in for a single step which then can be lost in 5 minutes AFK. FiS is doing well enough without WiS, so make WiS a new experience for those who are not doing well with FiS and its awful time comsuming activities. "What can i achieve in 30 minutes" should have an answer better than "be griefed, killed and stolen of your belongings". Rather than make FiS casual friendly, make WiS casual friendly from start.


There should be no distinction between walking around in a station and flying spaceships. It's all just EVE. The two should not be tied together so much as they should be different areas of the same thing.

All that said, I do agree that socialization should be the focal point of any further iteration on the Incarna expansion. Minigames, gambling, actual corporation offices, advertising billboards, that sort of thing.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#40 - 2012-05-18 18:41:58 UTC
Myxx wrote:
Kill Aurum, permanently.


A million times this. Aurum is the devil.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.