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Are the Goons killing Eve?
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Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#61 - 2012-05-18 09:53:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Peter Raptor
Spamming Dscan for 4-5 hours has got to be one of the most silly activities, I'd like the gankers to try it and if you enjoy it, you must be lying.

If you have to fit warp core stabs which decreases you target range, keep aligned at all times, tank your hulk bla blah blah, you mining yield is so lo its not worth the effort (and the effort is HUGE, what with spamming dscan for 5 hours LOL )

I'm just saying, the griefers would do much better going after bots, if not, you'll just lose thousands of players to the game, who have much better things to do than right click continuously for 5 hours

(It makes me laugh when griefers expect miners to do that, when the griefers themselves know, that that has to be one of the dumbest activities not only in Eve, but in life in general Lol)

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
Windy Wavicle
Doomheim
#62 - 2012-05-18 09:55:00 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:
Spanning Dscan for 4-5 hours has got to be one of the most silly activities, I'd like the gankers to try it and if you enjoy it, you must be lying.]



Name one part of this game which isn't a silly activity.
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#63 - 2012-05-18 09:56:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Himnos Altar
Peter Raptor wrote:
Spanning Dscan for 4-5 hours has got to be one of the most silly activities, I'd like the gankers to try it and if you enjoy it, you must be lying.

If you have to fit warp core stabs which decreases you target range, keep aligned at all times, tank your hulk bla blah blah, you mining yield is so lo its not worth the effort (and the effort is HUGE, what with spamming dscan for 5 hours LOL )

I'm just saying, the griefers would do much better going after bots, if not, you'll just lose thousands of players to the game, who have much better things to do than right click continuously for 5 hours

(It makes me laugh when griefers expect miners to do that, when the griefers themselves know, that that has to be one of the dumbest activities not only in Eve, but in life in general Lol)



you've....obviously never lived in a wormhole. where spamming (what is this spanning Dscan? ) D-scan is a NECESSITY. And aligning/etc to POS/SS while mining in WSpace is just another fact of living in WSpace (aside from being terrified of a bubble being dropped on you).

All I see here is another lazy carebear who has no interest in actually doing anything to help himself. Oh well. I guess that Hulkageddonites will be adding another name to their locator agents.

I tried.
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#64 - 2012-05-18 10:00:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Peter Raptor
Its worth it in WHs where you can make hundreds of millions per hour mining, in hisec you make a fraction of that, obviously you havent mined in Hisec during Hulkageddon, who would with the lo returns and all that Dscanning lol

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#65 - 2012-05-18 10:02:31 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:
the stats speak for themselves.
Indeed they do. Just look at these stats:

Last days in the work week = statistically have the lowest population online.
Days after one of the most anticipated game releases in the last five years = statistically have the lowest population online.
Spring lull in anticipation of a new patch = statistically lowers the population online.
Hulkageddon = statistically lowers the population a bit in the first couple of days.

…so yeah, the stats speak for themselves and what they're saying is that the goons are a pretty insignificant factor.
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#66 - 2012-05-18 10:06:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Peter Raptor
Tippia wrote:
Peter Raptor wrote:
the stats speak for themselves.
Indeed they do. Just look at these stats:

Last days in the work week = statistically have the lowest population online.
Days after one of the most anticipated game releases in the last five years = statistically have the lowest population online.
Spring lull in anticipation of a new patch = statistically lowers the population online.
Hulkageddon = statistically lowers the population a bit in the first couple of days.

…so yeah, the stats speak for themselves and what they're saying is that the goons are a pretty insignificant factor.


Every single one of these things have happened in previous years and the player count has been much higher then, so yeah, stats speak volumes.

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#67 - 2012-05-18 10:06:28 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:
Its worth it in WHs where you can make hundreds of millions per hour mining, in hisec you make a fraction of that, obviously you havent mined in Hisec during Hulkageddon, who would with the lo returns and all that Dscanning lol


then....why ARE you? I troll in the Recruitment channel daily (What up, fellow Recruitment trollers), and I see at least a dozen WH corps recruiting EVERY DAY.

And 2-3 dozen null sec corps recruiting in that same time span.

your excuse is.......???
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#68 - 2012-05-18 10:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Peter Raptor
Himnos Altar wrote:
Peter Raptor wrote:
Its worth it in WHs where you can make hundreds of millions per hour mining, in hisec you make a fraction of that, obviously you havent mined in Hisec during Hulkageddon, who would with the lo returns and all that Dscanning lol


then....why ARE you? I troll in the Recruitment channel daily (What up, fellow Recruitment trollers), and I see at least a dozen WH corps recruiting EVERY DAY.

And 2-3 dozen null sec corps recruiting in that same time span.

your excuse is.......???


I never said I mine in hisec, Im speaking up for those players who do, who couldn't be bothered logging in anymore cos of all the griefing, hence the abysmal server graph.

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#69 - 2012-05-18 10:10:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Himnos Altar
Peter Raptor wrote:
Himnos Altar wrote:
Peter Raptor wrote:
Its worth it in WHs where you can make hundreds of millions per hour mining, in hisec you make a fraction of that, obviously you havent mined in Hisec during Hulkageddon, who would with the lo returns and all that Dscanning lol


then....why ARE you? I troll in the Recruitment channel daily (What up, fellow Recruitment trollers), and I see at least a dozen WH corps recruiting EVERY DAY.

And 2-3 dozen null sec corps recruiting in that same time span.

your excuse is.......???


I never said I mine in hisec, Im speaking up for those players who do, who couldn't be bothered logging in anymore cos of all the griefing, hence the abysmal server graph.


Again, if you're complaining about getting blown up, fly smarter. fly cheaper. don't go out and get another expensive pinata that WILL be shot at again soon (and btw put money directly into the pockets of the people bankrolling Hulkageddon). You are familiar with the definition of insanity, I assume (aside from Playing WoW)?
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2012-05-18 10:25:13 UTC
Windy Wavicle wrote:


Name one part of this game which isn't a silly activity.

Forum PVP. I needs it with my morning coffee.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Josef Djugashvilis
#71 - 2012-05-18 10:50:03 UTC
Weyuun wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Shian Yang wrote:
Greetings capsuleer,

Derision? I did not see any. Apart perhaps from your near constant references to teenagers, children and so forth as if some fool would entrust a ship worth a million ISK to a juvenile capsuleer? What madness!

If you feel derision though, t would be because you are behaving like a bleating sheep.

"I would prefer"
"My way"
"I can't"

Come now.

Why should your choices be enforced on other capsuleers? Pirates will always attack vulnerable, valuable targets even in high security space. Exercise your options to defeat them, just as they are exercising their options to blow your ship to space dust. Imagine the satisfaction when you have managed to turn the tables on them ...

You are a god. An immortal capsuleers striding amongst the stars. Man up. Live like one.

Regards,

Shian Yang

Dear Capsuleer,

He has an eternity. He wants an eternity of mining. We were happy to allow this. He clarified he wanted an eternity of mining peacefully.

Negotiations had to be broken off at that point.


With a T2 Catalyst alt,

~Ala


Lol.. Alavaria... at least you were able to communicate your point with humour... and Shian.. I'm not trying to enforce my opinion on anyone.. nore am I bleating.. merely trying to communicate the frustrations of a Carebear style player, to an unbalanced inequity. Fancy words aside.. there are plenty of areas where miners can be ganked if they want to risk the better mineral deposits.. what Im proposing is that we make high sec space (say 0.7 and up) a much more expensive ganking field. You could still gank, if that's what you choose to do.. it will just cost you more than you stand to make. That way, there is room for a miner/high sec playstyle. I dont mind being ganked occasionally.. it's being constantly killed and unable to earn enough to cover the costs.. which is turning me away from this otherwise interesting game.

Shian.. "why should my choice be enforced on other players"... lol.. I dont have the power to enforce anything on anyone, but neither should you :)



Ganking has been, always will be, and always should be part of the Eve experience.

This is not a signature.
Brother Priscilian
The Order of Others
#72 - 2012-05-18 10:50:36 UTC
If people want to mine during hulkageddon - learn exploration. I havn't sat in belts for ages. There's a bunch of nutters charging around hi sec looking for hulks to gank - and you all seem surprised that it should happen to you, and no, PVP is not just for null or null/lo sec. It can happen where ever there is opportunity, this has always been the case the only difference is nowadays people just whine about it rather than fight back. I could be wrong but I thought a carebear used to be someone who fought pirates in hi sec to protect its "civilians" like miners and haulers.

As for numbers online yes they are down, I reckon we are back to the numbers they were about 2 years ago (only a guess). The reason for this could be any of a number of reasons. I mean, how many 24/7 botting accounts are now gone, a 1000?. Whats happening in the real world to influence things?, hulkageddon?, general disillusionment with CCP?, who knows.

At the end of the day as long as over 360,000 subs are paid each month the game should continue.

in theory anyway.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-05-18 10:58:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Yes. Because D3 is an abysmal failure and no-one is playing it.

some say: Eve is a different game which attracts smart (some even say amateur) people.

According to games which draw people from Eve Online (Skyrim, D3, BF3, whatever) i can't say that Eve players are somehow diffrerent from any other gamers Big smile

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#74 - 2012-05-18 11:13:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Serge Bastana
A couple of years a go myself and a couple of corp mates decided to mine during Hulkageddon. Every barge or exhumer had a damage control and wasn't fit for maximum yield, the Orca I flew had webs in the mids to use on the barges and exhumers to help them get to warp quicker. We had a cloaked blackbird sat 30km off the small fleet, a heavily shield tanked Myrmidon that the hauler could swap into at a moments notice and the Orca was heavily tanked to take the brunt of the damage as the mining ships warped out.

We aligned to station in system, watched local and d-scan, sat in the Hulkageddon chat channel in case we heard the system we were in, or any nearby, mentioned and took note of a lot of the corps taking part and set them to -10 for the duration of our mining op so we'd see them in local should they appear.

After all that setting up we didn't see one single ganker, was a bit of a disappointment really. We weren't really interested in mining, just to see if we could prepare ourselves should we be made targets. That was more fun than just sitting there chewing rocks all day as mining makes me want to scratch my eyeballs out.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Max Khaos
Republic Military School
#75 - 2012-05-18 11:19:11 UTC
BoB killed the Goons ..... anything done by the Goons is just second place.
_______________________________________________
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#76 - 2012-05-18 11:21:33 UTC
Weyuun wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Weyuun wrote:


Lol.. Alavaria... at least you were able to communicate your point with humour... and Shian.. I'm not trying to enforce my opinion on anyone.. nore am I bleating.. merely trying to communicate the frustrations of a Carebear style player, to an unbalanced inequity. Fancy words aside.. there are plenty of areas where miners can be ganked if they want to risk the better mineral deposits.. what Im proposing is that we make high sec space (say 0.7 and up) a much more expensive ganking field. You could still gank, if that's what you choose to do.. it will just cost you more than you stand to make. That way, there is room for a miner/high sec playstyle. I dont mind being ganked occasionally.. it's being constantly killed and unable to earn enough to cover the costs.. which is turning me away from this otherwise interesting game.

Shian.. "why should my choice be enforced on other players"... lol.. I dont have the power to enforce anything on anyone, but neither should you :)



I'm down with that proposal. Limit mining ships in .7 and higher Sec systems to those that cannot be economically ganked when T2 fit. That leaves... Rokhs, and... well Rokhs really. Without some sort of making CONCORD read people's minds, this is the only way to make your proposal happen.

There you go, ganking in your "Gank-Free Haven" Space is now unprofitable. You can still mine, if that's what you choose to do... it will just cost you some yield to do it. That way, there's room for a reason to mine in normal High Sec.

Anyway, 1.0 Space has a fast Concord Spawn and probably will keep you safe from Catalyst ganks (the most profitable kind) if you tank your Hulk (this means Buffer, not Active, and fit a dang DCII).



Thankyou for a constructive and non-abusive contribution to this thread, Ruby. Least-ways.. that's how I'm taking it (it is kinda fun to make fun of people when they don't get that you are making fun of them.. almost like... ganking a defenseless miner in high sec ;)



1) Miners are in no way defenseless. They have the exact same options everyone else does.

2) Hey, guess what, you can already mine in a Rokh. You give up ~200m3/min in yield and get something like 130k EHP (aka 10 times a Hulk). Nobody does it because all the miners are too silly to look past max yield or cry to the forums.

3) (Corollary to 2) Limiting mining in areas to Rokhs would just mean nobody mines there.

You're welcome.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#77 - 2012-05-18 11:27:56 UTC
Himnos Altar wrote:

3) Keep Aligned. If you wanna Jetcan/Orca mine, align and then stop once you're aligned. This just means you need to get up to speed to warp out.


Come on. Stop it. It's been 10 years and the Passive Align Myth still refuses to die.

The server stores your ship as a vector (speed on x axis, speed on y axis, speed on z axis). When your speed is 0, your ship has no direction to the server, so the speed to warp to something "behind" your ship's apparent position is exactly the same as something you're "passively aligned" to.

Take some heavy ship and try timing it. At 0 speed, it takes the same amount of time to get into warp no matter what direction you're "facing."

Better version of this is "If you want to Jetcan mine, the Orca can fit Capital Tractor beams for a reason, just pop a new can out every cycle."

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#78 - 2012-05-18 11:29:01 UTC
Serge Bastana wrote:
A couple of years a go myself and a couple of corp mates decided to mine during Hulkageddon. Every barge or exhumer had a damage control and wasn't fit for maximum yield, the Orca I flew had webs in the mids to use on the barges and exhumers to help them get to warp quicker. We had a cloaked blackbird sat 30km off the small fleet, a heavily shield tanked Myrmidon that the hauler could swap into at a moments notice and the Orca was heavily tanked to take the brunt of the damage as the mining ships warped out.

We aligned to station in system, watched local and d-scan, sat in the Hulkageddon chat channel in case we heard the system we were in, or any nearby, mentioned and took note of a lot of the corps taking part and set them to -10 for the duration of our mining op so we'd see them in local should they appear.

After all that setting up we didn't see one single ganker, was a bit of a disappointment really. We weren't really interested in mining, just to see if we could prepare ourselves should we be made targets. That was more fun than just sitting there chewing rocks all day as mining makes me want to scratch my eyeballs out.


This.

The difference between an EVE player and a normal video game player is the ability to adapt, organize and create counter-tactics in a constantly evolving environment. We play against each others, not dumb AI. Gankers will come up with new tactics, you find a new counter. This is the challenge, and the fun.

Don't try to butt your head repeatedly and blindly through a stone wall, look at the wall, find a way around it, or a weak spot that you can exploit. Make friends, it's an MMO.

Rules of EVE Online will not change to cater to some "playstyle" a minority group stubbornly clings on to.

tl,dr; Not "I want to do X, so CCP has to change Y", but "I want to do X, therefore I must consider Y".

.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#79 - 2012-05-18 11:34:20 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:
Spamming Dscan for 4-5 hours has got to be one of the most silly activities, I'd like the gankers to try it and if you enjoy it, you must be lying.

If you have to fit warp core stabs which decreases you target range, keep aligned at all times, tank your hulk bla blah blah, you mining yield is so lo its not worth the effort (and the effort is HUGE, what with spamming dscan for 5 hours LOL )

I'm just saying, the griefers would do much better going after bots, if not, you'll just lose thousands of players to the game, who have much better things to do than right click continuously for 5 hours

(It makes me laugh when griefers expect miners to do that, when the griefers themselves know, that that has to be one of the dumbest activities not only in Eve, but in life in general Lol)


Solo and small gang PvPers spam dscan constantly while micromanaging their mods.
WH dwellers spam dscan constantly all the time.


If saving your Hulk isn't worth Dscanning, either accept that you'll lose it, find other precautions that will work (staying aligned at 75% speed, for one), don't mine during HAG, or find an activity where Dscanning is unnecessary* or worthwhile.

DScan is Left-Click, anyway.

Anyway, nobody expects miners to do that, since that would stop you from being able to scream "We're Defenseless" on the forums. These are options with a cost and a benefit; it is up to you where the balance lays on each option, but if you have defensive options you are, by definition, not defenseless.

*Hint: It's called a Rokh

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#80 - 2012-05-18 11:37:22 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Peter Raptor wrote:
Spamming Dscan for 4-5 hours has got to be one of the most silly activities, I'd like the gankers to try it and if you enjoy it, you must be lying.

If you have to fit warp core stabs which decreases you target range, keep aligned at all times, tank your hulk bla blah blah, you mining yield is so lo its not worth the effort (and the effort is HUGE, what with spamming dscan for 5 hours LOL )

I'm just saying, the griefers would do much better going after bots, if not, you'll just lose thousands of players to the game, who have much better things to do than right click continuously for 5 hours

(It makes me laugh when griefers expect miners to do that, when the griefers themselves know, that that has to be one of the dumbest activities not only in Eve, but in life in general Lol)


Solo and small gang PvPers spam dscan constantly while micromanaging their mods.
WH dwellers spam dscan constantly all the time.


If saving your Hulk isn't worth Dscanning, either accept that you'll lose it, find other precautions that will work (staying aligned at 75% speed, for one), don't mine during HAG, or find an activity where Dscanning is unnecessary* or worthwhile.

DScan is Left-Click, anyway.

Anyway, nobody expects miners to do that, since that would stop you from being able to scream "We're Defenseless" on the forums. These are options with a cost and a benefit; it is up to you where the balance lays on each option, but if you have defensive options you are, by definition, not defenseless.

*Hint: It's called a Rokh


But checking d-scan means they might miss something vital on tv.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...