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What's up with stacking penalty?
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Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-05-18 09:42:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Alex Sinai
Hi there,

I was and is wondering what's up with that "bright" idea of stacking penalty? If i have 2 computers they both work at full capacity and not like stack to 1.2 or 0.4 of their full power.

Same everywhere else. Its not like 2 nuclear reactors "stack" up to 1.2 or whatever else number of their full capacity.

What's up with this nonsense and why everyone tolerates it. It simply does not make any sense.

I think its time to remove this thing from the game.

Don't let them fly safe!
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#2 - 2012-05-18 09:43:27 UTC
it's so you can't get OMG UBER stats from stacking invul/other hardeners on top of each other. SEriously, you'd get 90-100% (EM :P ) resists FAR too easily with 4 Invuls if you trashed the stacking penalty
Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#3 - 2012-05-18 09:44:22 UTC
Your first fail was drawing a comparison with real life.

Your second fail was not noticing that the stacking penalties actually provide a kind of in-built 'balancer' to the game.

And your third fail is actually a kind of success, as I have just noticed your corp name. Congratulations!
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-05-18 09:45:43 UTC
Himnos Altar wrote:
it's so you can't get OMG UBER stats from stacking invul/other hardeners on top of each other. SEriously, you'd get 90-100% (EM :P ) resists FAR too easily with 4 Invuls if you trashed the stacking penalty



So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily.

Don't let them fly safe!
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-05-18 09:47:34 UTC
Gorki Andropov wrote:
Your first fail was drawing a comparison with real life.

Your second fail was not noticing that the stacking penalties actually provide a kind of in-built 'balancer' to the game.

And your third fail is actually a kind of success, as I have just noticed your corp name. Congratulations!



Thanks :)

Still stacking does not makes sense. In any world. It's either on everything or on nothing. Why torpedo launchers dont have stacking? They use cpu. Why reactors have stacking? It's not comparison to real world. Its comparison to basic logic.

Don't let them fly safe!
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#6 - 2012-05-18 09:47:50 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:
Himnos Altar wrote:
it's so you can't get OMG UBER stats from stacking invul/other hardeners on top of each other. SEriously, you'd get 90-100% (EM :P ) resists FAR too easily with 4 Invuls if you trashed the stacking penalty



So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily.


you just want 90-100% resists too easily. NO.


EVE is hard mode. Even in hi sec (see Suicide Gankers/War Dec griefers, Shiny mission ship gankers, ninjas, incursion griefers).
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-05-18 09:48:17 UTC
2 people will run a mile faster than 1 person and if we get 10,000 people we can build a house in about 2 minutes.
Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#8 - 2012-05-18 09:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaaeliaa
It won't be going anywhere without a significant overhaul of the entire game.

Just as an example, an Apocalypse Navy Issue has 8 low slots. Fill them up with Imperial Navy Heat Sink modules. You now have +100% damage if there's no stacking penalty. That's why the stacking penalty exists; damage and resistances would be off the wall without it.

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-05-18 09:55:01 UTC
Kaaeliaa wrote:
It won't be going anywhere without a significant overhaul of the entire game.

Just as an example, an Apocalypse Navy Issue has 8 low slots. Fill them up with Imperial Navy Heat Sink modules. You now have +100% damage if there's no stacking penalty. That's why the stacking penalty exists. Damage and resists would be off the wall without the penalty.



Thank you, quite clear explanation.

Also it fuels economy on destroyed items since to make the item effective you need to stack 2-3 items there. I wasn't actually referring to resists. More toward dampeners but resists argument also works.

CCP should come with overhaul or whatever else because "stacking" makes no sense and contradicts logic in so many cases in world of EVE and real world.

Don't let them fly safe!
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-05-18 09:55:52 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:
Himnos Altar wrote:
it's so you can't get OMG UBER stats from stacking invul/other hardeners on top of each other. SEriously, you'd get 90-100% (EM :P ) resists FAR too easily with 4 Invuls if you trashed the stacking penalty



So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily.


Two computers working side by side would indeed process the data twice as quick.
But the computing power required is expenential.
It's not that there's a penaltiy, it's more than getting 100% resist is insanely difficult.
Going from 25% resist to 47% requires the computing power of one invuln but to get to 69% would take more than twice the processing power because the maths is more difficult.


Is that close enough to some kinda plauseable lore for you or do I have to say things like higsboson and mention then hiesnburge differential or some crap?

can you shut up and **** off now?
Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#11 - 2012-05-18 09:57:28 UTC
Our ships fly in a space that's more akin to oil than vacuum, and you complain about this?!
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#12 - 2012-05-18 09:57:35 UTC
Kaaeliaa wrote:
It won't be going anywhere without a significant overhaul of the entire game.

Just as an example, an Apocalypse Navy Issue has 8 low slots. Fill them up with Imperial Navy Heat Sink modules. You now have +100% damage if there's no stacking penalty. That's why the stacking penalty exists. Damage and resists would be off the wall without the penalty.

Actually, it would be, uh, 523%.

Alex Sinai wrote:
This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily.

Sounds to me like you should quit and find a more realistic video game.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-05-18 10:00:19 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
Alex Sinai wrote:
Himnos Altar wrote:
it's so you can't get OMG UBER stats from stacking invul/other hardeners on top of each other. SEriously, you'd get 90-100% (EM :P ) resists FAR too easily with 4 Invuls if you trashed the stacking penalty



So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily.


Two computers working side by side would indeed process the data twice as quick.
But the computing power required is expenential.
It's not that there's a penaltiy, it's more than getting 100% resist is insanely difficult.
Going from 25% resist to 47% requires the computing power of one invuln but to get to 69% would take more than twice the processing power because the maths is more difficult.


Is that close enough to some kinda plauseable lore for you or do I have to say things like higsboson and mention then hiesnburge differential or some crap?

can you shut up and **** off now?



Can i ask just one question concerning it? Then why having two torpedo launchers not causing stacking? What about not possible to fit two Damage Controls? Or how about fitting 6 salvagers not causing "stacking" due to higher requirements of power and cpu? Stacking is a good excuse but bad solution.

Thank you for attempting to explain it within the lore but no thank you for being rude.

Don't let them fly safe!
Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#14 - 2012-05-18 10:00:21 UTC
Son of a biscuit. I forgot they were multiplicative. Fortunately, it doesn't change my argument.

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#15 - 2012-05-18 10:01:26 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:



So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily.


2 completely separate computer sure does work at their full capacity. But engineer would be called moron if he puts 2 completely separate computer into an aircraft. usually you want some level of interoperability. Or at very least use the very same set of input and output devices (for the cost sake). And at that point you get "stacking penalty" in real aircraft as well.
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-05-18 10:01:44 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Kaaeliaa wrote:
It won't be going anywhere without a significant overhaul of the entire game.

Just as an example, an Apocalypse Navy Issue has 8 low slots. Fill them up with Imperial Navy Heat Sink modules. You now have +100% damage if there's no stacking penalty. That's why the stacking penalty exists. Damage and resists would be off the wall without the penalty.

Actually, it would be, uh, 523%.

Alex Sinai wrote:
This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily.

Sounds to me like you should quit and find a more realistic video game.



I will think about quitting right after you quit dear and please dont forget to contract your stuff to me while door hits you in the ***.

Don't let them fly safe!
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#17 - 2012-05-18 10:02:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Baneken
So with that logic if I put two engines in my car in theory that should give it 2x the speed, strangely this doesn't happen.

Or if I put 2 barrels in my gun I can kill two people with one shot ? No that didn't work either; Oh darn it looks like adding 1 + 1 isn't always 2 in RL. Roll
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-05-18 10:03:04 UTC
Shpenat wrote:
Alex Sinai wrote:



So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily.


2 completely separate computer sure does work at their full capacity. But engineer would be called moron if he puts 2 completely separate computer into an aircraft. usually you want some level of interoperability. Or at very least use the very same set of input and output devices (for the cost sake). And at that point you get "stacking penalty" in real aircraft as well.



Surprise. Boeing uses 5 to 7 completely separate backup systems that backs each other in case of fault and no they dont have any "stacking" penalties.

Don't let them fly safe!
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-05-18 10:04:09 UTC
Baneken wrote:
So with that logic if I put two engines in my car in theory that should give it 2x the speed, strangely this doesn't happen.

Or if I put 2 barrels in my gun I can kill two people with one shot ? No that didn't work either; Oh darn it looks like adding 1 + 1 isn't always 2 in RL. Roll


If you put two barrels you get twice the firepower. If you add two engines you spend twice on fuels. Depends on point of view. :p

Don't let them fly safe!
Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#20 - 2012-05-18 10:05:47 UTC
I feel bad now, because I totally responded to what is now becoming an obvious troll thread.

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."
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