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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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The Close to 1 Month questions!

Author
Lilith Kissinger
Aesir Squadron
#1 - 2012-05-16 06:08:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Lilith Kissinger
Okay so first let me just point out that I already have a Naga, I'm capable of flying. I also have a retriever, which kinda just sits around now.

Anyway. My question(s) is/are as followed:

1: Naga, I'm using it for PvE missions, currently L1-L2. I would like to know the best fitting setup for it.
Dont go pestering me about the fact its a PvP ship, I really dont care, it's my ship I'll use it how I like.
(ALSO! I'm in Gallente Space, normally in Eglenaert (Closest I can spell that off hand) and am currently
training toward the Large Hybrid Railguns. 3D til Gunnery 5 is done.
(Dont care if you think the blasters are better I'm a very look based person.)

Final Note that I just remembered. Im going after either the Legion or the Caldari equivalent right after
I fit this ship. This note may help with the next question I guess.

2: I plan to buy a 3 month sub in the next 8 days, my account expires then on the PLEX I got.
How can I survive best, account wise. Like best way for me to play solo while gaining ISK to keep
my account going with PLEX after the 3 months. (Mining or Missions, I like to pew pew things but
not in a PvP standpoint.)

3: Hi I'm new what advice do you have for me? (Please be polite and don't beat me up. I can handle
criticism just dont be rude about it.) A mention, I'm Amarr, Amarr, Common Wealth living in Gallente
while flying Caldari ships. FUN STUFF!

EDIT: Notable Mention: I'm not really playing alone, I have around 10 veteran players in a chat that
help me out on occasion.



PS Sorry if the questions are messy. Im a lil tired. probably wont check replies til I wake up.
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-05-16 07:45:55 UTC
Hi,

The best fitting for L1/L2 missions is a smaller ship, most targets are frigates or cruisers up to level 3 missions and whether you like it or not, you're taking an unecessarily painful way of running your missions with a naga. L1 and L2s can be done in an assault frigate. That said, you're better off with rails than blasters in those conditions indeed because the basis of tracking and signatures analysis would make you struggle to hit anything moving a bit too fast and too close from you, so that might work better if you can maintain the range.

On level 3 missions, you will need a tanky ship and for the records, the naga is all but tanky, it's meant for long range assaults and sacrifices tanking to allow the fitting of large weapons.

You can indeed use the ships you have however you like, but if you can hammer a nail with the butthead of a screwdriver, doesn't mean it's the best tool to do it.

While mission running mostly follows the bigger/better tantrum, every level has its appropriate class of ships, the naga might be a possible ship for L3 missions (experts may argue) but I'd suggest using a merlin for L1s and a hawk for L2s, or a harpy if you prefer the hybrid weaponry, it'll certainly be more efficient and perhaps enjoyable. Some L3 missions will definitely require a very tanky ship to complete them though.

If you really want to stick to that boat, then post your fitting and caldari experts might have suggestions as to how you can improve it. But the most likely setup would probably be a hunch of large rails on the high slots, shield extender + resists amplifiers and perhaps prop mod or web on the mids, tracking enhancers and a damage control on the lows (I slap damage controls nearly everywhere, but that's perhaps a useless mod on caldari ships *shrugs*). Then use a bunch of drones for smallest targets.

As per the PLEXing of your account, the best way for now is incursions, but with Inferno coming on may 22nd, it may change, can't tell how until it's out though. Other options are trading and industry, to join a wh-corp, good bucks to be made without the hassle of nullsec. It's the first thing that comes to mind, but there's very detailed, bulky and indigestible isk making guides others will promptly link if you want to dig the question deeper.

Now, about the advices, don't be rude in your posts when you want your questions answered and don't want rude replies, there's many new players coming here with questions and most people in this section tend to be helpful contrary to the rest of the forum, but there's an increasing number of posts along the lines of "ok I'm new, I know blabla don't tell me this or that... please don't be rude..." and it's honestly tedious and uninviting to answer when you ask for help but basically tell us not to tell you that you're doing things wrong.
Other than that:
- when you undock, you should always be prepared to lose your ship, it's the dire reality of the game, no place is safe outside the ship hangar.
- because you can board a ship, doesn't mean you can effectively fly it, each class has a minimal support skills requirements listed in the certificates recommended that will allow you to fly the ship well enough in general situations, wich is always better than minimal prerequisites to board it. AKA, without proper tanking, gunnery, etc. skills, you have a glass canon.
- do not rush in the biggest hulls without training basic support skills, there's a general set of skills that affect all ships and the sooner you have them trained, the more capable of correctly flying a ship you'll be.
- don't haul PLEX unless you really know how and what you do, always go to a trade hub and redeem the PLEX once you're docked.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-05-16 10:57:41 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Lilith Kissinger wrote:
Okay so first let me just point out that I already have a Naga, I'm capable of flying. I also have a retriever, which kinda just sits around now.

Anyway. My question(s) is/are as followed:

1: Naga, I'm using it for PvE missions, currently L1-L2. I would like to know the best fitting setup for it.
Dont go pestering me about the fact its a PvP ship, I really dont care, it's my ship I'll use it how I like.
(ALSO! I'm in Gallente Space, normally in Eglenaert (Closest I can spell that off hand) and am currently
training toward the Large Hybrid Railguns. 3D til Gunnery 5 is done.
(Dont care if you think the blasters are better I'm a very look based person.)

Final Note that I just remembered. Im going after either the Legion or the Caldari equivalent right after
I fit this ship. This note may help with the next question I guess.

2: I plan to buy a 3 month sub in the next 8 days, my account expires then on the PLEX I got.
How can I survive best, account wise. Like best way for me to play solo while gaining ISK to keep
my account going with PLEX after the 3 months. (Mining or Missions, I like to pew pew things but
not in a PvP standpoint.)

3: Hi I'm new what advice do you have for me? (Please be polite and don't beat me up. I can handle
criticism just dont be rude about it.) A mention, I'm Amarr, Amarr, Common Wealth living in Gallente
while flying Caldari ships. FUN STUFF!

EDIT: Notable Mention: I'm not really playing alone, I have around 10 veteran players in a chat that
help me out on occasion.



PS Sorry if the questions are messy. Im a lil tired. probably wont check replies til I wake up.



1.) You can't fly a Naga properly after just 1 month, being able to sit in it and station spin doesn't mean you can fly it properly. Personally I can sit in a lot of ships that I know I can't really fly. You rushed in it and didn't train all the support and core skills.
Long version short: Minimum skills doesn't mean you can USE the ship, it means you can SIT in it.

Using a Naga in L1 or L2 missions is easy, those missions can be done in a frigate. And actually if done in a frigate you are more effective (quicker at shooting the rats + less expensive ammo used).

2.) EVE is an MMO, not a singleplayer game. Fine, if you want to go solo, do missions and grind ISK. You will get bored soon as missions are repetitive. And if you only grind ISK to be able to pay for your game time you are doing it wrong. As this will end up in following cycle: Grind Missions => get ISK => buy PLEX for account => grind missions => get ISK => get PLEX for account => .........

Also there is no place in EVE that is PvP free unless you stay docked (and even then, if you go onto the market itself, it's PvP as you compete on the market against other players). Don't want to PvP, then don't undock. You will find PvP in EVE everywhere. High-sec doesn't mean no PvP. Anybody in EVE can shoot your ship down in space if they really want too.

3.) Advice, train core skills up. Play with others. Don't worry about grinding ISK to pay for the game, most important thing in EVE is having fun.

On your EDIT, hanging around in a chat channel with others isn't playing with others. It's having a chat with others, playing with others means you do actual stuff together.

EDIT: just spotted you can fly both Naga and Retriever yet are only month old. Means you CAN'T fly them both, nor 1 of them. You can sit in them and that's all.

And you ask help on fitting that Naga, yet you don't want to hear about blaster or that it is just a PvP ship.

A PvE ship MUST have a sustainable tank, as PvE means lots of stable incoming DPS which you must tank. And that is where the Naga fails, it's not a tanking ship. It's made and intended to be used as high DPS - low tank ship, so that is PvP where you don't have to tank stable incoming DPS.
PvP is really high DPS for a really short time (either you died or the other died, either way the DPS is gone), idea of the tier 3's is that you can kill the others before they can kill you

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

gfldex
#4 - 2012-05-16 11:31:07 UTC
1) read and understand the tracking formula

2) with your attitude that will not work

3) get off your high horse or EVE will teach you a lesson about patience

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.

Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#5 - 2012-05-16 12:14:48 UTC
1) That naga is all gank and no tank so you will die in your first lvl 4 mission in it can kill several BS's on belt but I doubt it could survive in lvl 4 missions very long.
Keno Skir
#6 - 2012-05-16 13:52:38 UTC
Agreed, buy a t1 battlecruiser.
Lilith Kissinger
Aesir Squadron
#7 - 2012-05-16 21:00:54 UTC
Thanks for all the advice, me being nice though will be pretty tough, I'm not normally nice. I'll look into a Tier 1 BC but at the moment I'd rather finish the gunnery training before I continue with another ship.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-05-17 10:32:11 UTC
Lilith Kissinger wrote:
Thanks for all the advice, me being nice though will be pretty tough, I'm not normally nice. I'll look into a Tier 1 BC but at the moment I'd rather finish the gunnery training before I continue with another ship.


But you ask others to be nice to you.

That doesn't work.

Be ignorant and play like you do now, still amazed you think that doing L1-2 missions in a Naga is good. Or take advice (either good or bad) and be open to changes.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Ilnaurk Sithdogron
Blackwater International
#9 - 2012-05-17 21:06:21 UTC
You've got a few problems here.

A Naga is not a PvE ship. PvE ships need to be able to take a steady flow of damage with a good tank; DPS is not a tremendously important factor. PvP, on the other hand, focuses on putting out huge DPS in exchange for a paper-thin tank. That's why PvP and Incursion-fit ships need to use logistics boats to help them out. Long story short, Nagas suck at PvE. Don't expect to get far using them.

You ask people for fitting advice, but then tell us "Don't care if you think the blasters are better" because railguns look more 1337. Well, with an attitude like that, I can't really help you fit your ship.

You tell us to "be polite" and then say something like "me being nice will be pretty tough, I'm not normally nice." Well, learn to be. Asking for niceness and responding with douchery will get you nothing but dislike, as you're already seeing.

EVE will teach you a hard lesson very soon, I'm afraid.

http://eve-sojourn.blogspot.com/

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#10 - 2012-05-17 21:10:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Since you are into Caldari ships and hybrids:

Level 1: Merlin or Cormorant (NPC are frigates)
Level 2: Moa with small turrets (NPC are frigates with a few cruisers)
Level 3: Ferrox with medium turrets (NPC are mostly battlecruisers and cruisers)
Level 4: Rokh with large turrets (NPC are mostly battleships, battlecruisers, and cruisers)

Rails are the way to go in missions, so you don't waste time constantly trying to get into range.
Lilith Kissinger
Aesir Squadron
#11 - 2012-05-18 06:14:52 UTC
Well now, I'm currently moving into a new ship, right when I can afford it I'm going for it. I was told the Harbringer is my best bet until I can get the Tengu. It's definitely not the prettiest ship around but its a ship. Quick question though, would a frigate be worth it, for missions? I see alot of people using Frigates for Missions and it seems odd to me to not being using something huge >.<

Again thanks for all the help and advice.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-05-18 08:51:54 UTC
Lilith Kissinger wrote:
Well now, I'm currently moving into a new ship, right when I can afford it I'm going for it. I was told the Harbringer is my best bet until I can get the Tengu. It's definitely not the prettiest ship around but its a ship. Quick question though, would a frigate be worth it, for missions? I see alot of people using Frigates for Missions and it seems odd to me to not being using something huge >.<

Again thanks for all the help and advice.


Bigger isn't always better.


Large guns have slower tracking. Bigger ships are also easier to hit.

A frigate, with small guns can move fast (making it hard to hit) and has more than enough firepower to take out frigs\cruisers.

try not to fall into the "bigger\more expensive is better" mind set or you'll just end up on eve kill with an officer fit capital loss because you were solo ratting afk.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-05-18 08:59:45 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Lilith Kissinger wrote:
Well now, I'm currently moving into a new ship, right when I can afford it I'm going for it. I was told the Harbringer is my best bet until I can get the Tengu. It's definitely not the prettiest ship around but its a ship. Quick question though, would a frigate be worth it, for missions? I see alot of people using Frigates for Missions and it seems odd to me to not being using something huge >.<

Again thanks for all the help and advice.


Damn, you are really stupid or just don't read what is posted.

People use frigates in level 1 missions cause they work best in there. Give a similar level 1 mission and my new alt in a frigate will do that mission faster then your Naga.

To use real life as an example:

Frigate = Pistol
Naga = Howitzer artillery

Which on do you use to kill a running rabbit?



Tau Calabander lists which ships he suggests you use, using Caldari and Guns as example

More general:

Level 1: Frigates / Destroyers
Level 2: Destroyer / Cruiser
Level 3: Cruiser / Battlecruiser
Level 4: Battlecruiser / Battleship / T3
Level 5: Battleships / Fleet

EDIT:

Also, as you don't have gunnery 5 you can't use large guns. Which means you are ****-fitting the Naga. The Naga as all tier 3's are designed to be a battlecruiser with battleship guns. Ferrox is 100% better at the job then the Naga is as it is build for Medium turrets and can actually pack a bit of tank.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#14 - 2012-05-18 09:11:00 UTC
J'Poll wrote:


Frigate = Pistol
Naga = Howitzer artillery

Which on do you use to kill a running rabbit?



After seeing this rabbit I can safely say I bring a Howitzer artillery.

Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-05-18 10:08:37 UTC
Starting over again and cross-training Amarr battlecruiser? sheesh, you're not getting it...
The harbinger will hardly be better at the job than a naga, it has way more tank but you'll run into the very same problem as long as you stick to L1/L2 missions.

Every ship has a signature, expressed in meters.
Every gun has a resolution, also expressed in meters.

A gun is designed to hit targets with a signature equal or superior to the gun's resolution. If you try to shoot a target with a signature below your gun's resolution, you will not apply full damage.

A gun also has a tracking speed, wich qualifies the speed at wich the turrets follows a target, you'll easily understand that the higher the speed, the better the turret can track. However,you will miss shots if the target is faster than your gun's tracking speed.

Now, in L1 and L2 missions, you mostly encounter frigates, destroyers and cruisers. You said you haven't trained gunnery 5 yet, so you can only use medium turrets. That means you have guns with a resolution of 150m roughly, and somewhere near 0.025 rad/sec as you use railguns. With that, you're trying to hit targets with a signature around 40m for frigates, 90m for destroyers and 135m for cruisers.

Thus, even if you can maintain a low transversal speed with every target, you'll never apply full damage and if you ever finish training gunnery 5 and fit large railguns, it'll be even worse because your gun's resolution will be around 400m. Also, once a target goes too close (below 10km), and they start orbiting you, their base speed will nullify your guns tracking ability.

Besides, your naga doesn't have a drone bay, so you option to get you rid of small buggers getting close than flying away if you can, to keep a low transversal speed and hopefully keep the target in a decent range for your guns.

So why do people recommend you frigates for L1 missions? because small railguns have a resolution of 40m and a tracking speed of 0.07 rad/sec. As you can see, signature of frigates matches railguns resolution and tracking speed of small railguns is far grater than medium ones. So maybe the smaller railguns are doing less damage on paper than medium ones, but they have far more chances of hitting your target and keeping track in close range, so they're better for the job than "something huge".

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-05-18 10:29:37 UTC
Just reading all this again.

I get the idea we have an old WoW player or some sort of other gamer who just thinks bigger is better.

Well, wake up. It isn't, every ship in EVE has a designed purpose and counter. Big doesn't always mean better.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62323

An excellent example that small can kill big.

Frigates once up close become impossible to hit properly by large guns

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Remistor Callaway
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-05-18 22:35:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Remistor Callaway
Down size, learn how to fly smaller, you'll be much more effective in bigger ships later.

Train recommended certificates for the ship you want to fly, do not rush to it. It will make you a lot more effective and a better pilot

Join a PvE corp, EvE is a multiplayer game, you'll be bored in a few weeks if you continue solo. Plus, they will help you a lot.

Also, focus on something. Now you want to train for a Amarr BC then go for a Caldari t3 cruiser? Select a race and stick to it. If you dont it will almost double your training time.