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Nullsec Local: How to remove it without completely tilting the scales.
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Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2012-05-17 21:31:48 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
I do live in a WH.
the reason I do so is local makes nullsec useless.
it needs to be at the very least 5-10min delayed.


no it does not

if somebody takes a ton of enjoyment from spamming dscan they'll just move to wormholes

the only people who care about local in nullsec are those who want to move 30 dudes around somebody's space absolutely undetected because they failed at the spaceholding game and went ~wulfpax~

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#62 - 2012-05-17 21:36:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Peter Raptor
What kind of a ridiculous game would Eve become without local, 45,000 players all clicking Dscan every 2 seconds 23.5/7 ROFL A laughing stock of the MMO world.

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#63 - 2012-05-17 21:39:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Peter Raptor wrote:
What kind of a ridiculous game would Eve become without local, 45,000 players all clicking Dscan every 2 seconds 23.5/7 ROFL


terrible, no one will want to play it specially new players. not to mention the uncesary traffic in every system.
i would have to hot key dscan...gosh, terrible idea!
all this super computers we got at home these days and 99% of the time we would spend dscaning. Roll
Ancyker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-05-18 01:13:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ancyker
90% of the arguments against my idea didn't even read the proposal, just the title.

I'm going to say this one more time then start ignoring everyone that obviously did not read it:

The proposal is NOT to have the default be no local.

The proposal leaves everything as it is now, but adds an ihub upgrade that, when installed, makes the holding alliance have delayed local and everyone else have no local in the system which it is installed.


Here's how I looked at it:

Some people think there should be no local in null sec. Some people think local in null sec is a must have.

I think EVE is a sandbox and everyone wants different things. So I came up with something in the middle. Why?

Remove local from null sec entirely and most people will leave null sec.
Add an upgrade to add local back and almost every system will get it.
Add an upgrade that simply removes local and it will see little to no use.
Add an upgrade that removes local only for enemies straight up and every system will have it.

I tried to think of something in the middle. Instead of just being "install this in every system", it's "what systems would this be useful in?"

It has pros (your enemies can't see local) and cons (your allies cannot see local either and your alliance gets delayed local). It has a counter (a ship which can hack the gate and give your fleet a live local list) and it adds a new ship type to the game in a class that even CCP says really needs more ship types.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-05-18 02:13:04 UTC
So basically you want this ihub upgrade to take a system from being as it is now, to a delayed local for the alliance which owns the system, just to remove local from everyone else?

Good luck with that, it'll be one of those upgrades which are never used because the delay scares them. Remove local and be done with it.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-05-18 09:23:45 UTC
i do not feel this is a good idea.
I personally wouldnt like that someone could shoot the upgrade and now i am left without local.
There are far more things that need fixing like sov, pos and faction warfare. Not to mention that this makes the attacker always have the upper hand. This is specially true when your enemy is far more bigger than your alliance. We have enough upgrades to worry about to add more.
knulla
Doomheim
#67 - 2012-05-18 09:27:34 UTC  |  Edited by: knulla
We don't need solutions to removing local, removing local is the solution!

remove it already damn it, EVERY WHERE!

NO, not delay, REMOVE!!

 [u]Malice Redeemer[/u] - "Post if you are unsubing over the new inventory"  Posted: 2012.05.23 01:39

    lol
Knot'Kul Sun
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-05-18 09:35:21 UTC
Maybe make 'local' an upgradeable asset.

a system thats held by sov wont have local channel, at first.

allow alliances to upgrade systems, (at a cost), to implement an 'Active Transmitter Relay Network'
or better yet, make it a costly POS module, like an entire POS to run the thing.
therefor it will become a developable asset, but will also be vulnerable to destruction.

pop the ATRN module at an enemies POS, covert-cyno in a fleet later while local is down

=

PROFIT!!!!
Ancyker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#69 - 2012-05-18 20:31:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ancyker
Andrea Roche wrote:
i do not feel this is a good idea.
I personally wouldnt like that someone could shoot the upgrade and now i am left without local.
There are far more things that need fixing like sov, pos and faction warfare. Not to mention that this makes the attacker always have the upper hand. This is specially true when your enemy is far more bigger than your alliance. We have enough upgrades to worry about to add more.


Didn't read the proposal.


Knot'Kul Sun wrote:
Maybe make 'local' an upgradeable asset.

a system thats held by sov wont have local channel, at first.

allow alliances to upgrade systems, (at a cost), to implement an 'Active Transmitter Relay Network'
or better yet, make it a costly POS module, like an entire POS to run the thing.
therefor it will become a developable asset, but will also be vulnerable to destruction.

pop the ATRN module at an enemies POS, covert-cyno in a fleet later while local is down

=

PROFIT!!!!

Then every system would just be upgraded and that's boring.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2012-05-18 21:07:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Andrea - go to WHS.

THAT is what he wants. *for the most part*

End of dsicussion..remove thy head from thy @$$ for once.


Utterly ridiuclous...you talk such passion about bots and stuff but your blind/dense as a bloody brick.

Anyone can use or talk in local..doing so reveals your presense and thats that.

And to be quite honest...nobdy in Null Sec really chats it up in local..its done in alliance chat (derp derp duh!)

If they do talk..its selective...smack talking..taunting..etc...

Even a noob can figure that out.

If you want to be a social butterfly then go right on ahead....no one said you couldn't flap your gums.


The whole point is an alliance getting an distinct hard earned advantage...in reallity its not much.

If you've lived in WHS (I seriously doubt you have) you'd understand just because you don't see it..doesn't mean its not there.

Mechanics are still the same..rules are still the same...just no more free intel.


Wonder where Tiger spirt is at? Usually goes emo-rage seizure full on mode here.

cant say I support OP's idea fully...but I like what I see. :)

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-05-19 09:35:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Ancyker wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
i do not feel this is a good idea.
I personally wouldnt like that someone could shoot the upgrade and now i am left without local.
There are far more things that need fixing like sov, pos and faction warfare. Not to mention that this makes the attacker always have the upper hand. This is specially true when your enemy is far more bigger than your alliance. We have enough upgrades to worry about to add more.


Didn't read the proposal.


Yes i have what it says exactly. Also the comment above was more directed to the "goon guy ideas" rather than you as you clearly went missing for a while and the conversation continues with the other guy.

Ancyker wrote:

What?
Currently local in null sec is like every where else in k-space. When someone enters system local updates to show them. This is partly a social aspect in most areas of k-space but in null sec and low sec it is an intelligence aspect.

To explain this to some of you that have never been to null: People rat in a system in relative safety. When a hostile enters, they all warp to safety (POS, station, cloaked in a safe spot, etc). Aside from removing part of the risk in null it does help bots. They can immediately react to a hostile entering and safe up. Players do occasionally miss a hostile entering system. I'll be upfront and say while it would put a damper on botting this is not in my list of concerns.


The above clearly say that you intend to remove local. My point is simple and remains the same. It is too easy for a much bigger alliance to move in, reinforce or destroy the upgrade and move out. I understand cos you are in TEST that this does not happen to you that much but imagine this on a small entity......A small entity would never have a hope in hell. Now you got no local until 5/6 weeks down the line and thats provided that it doesnt get attacked meanwhile or destroyed again. Having soverently lvl 1, it should be more than enough to have local if anything. But having a sov module for local is still pushing it! And i think we got way to many modules atm and more may come when sov gets changed and i really do not want more modules. There are simply too many and ocupy too much cargo space atm.

Blues not been able to see local as you mentioned its even worst of an idea, i think. You are comptelly removing the standings mechanic and saying no cos you dont want to. This is incredibly disabling cos it remove intel across a huge span of systems and puts the ball compeltelly on the invader side. There is a reason and an advantage after all to be "trenched in" in your system and this removes that.

People still get caugh and dont warp out when others enter the system. So as far as i am concerned, you lost cos you didnt watch local. So this works as intended.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-05-19 09:44:25 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
The above clearly say that you intend to remove local. My point is simple and remains the same. It is too easy for a much bigger alliance to move in, reinforce or destroy the upgrade and move out. A small entity would never have a hope in hell. Now you got no local until 5/6 weeks down the line and thats provided that it doesnt get attacked meanwhile or destroyed again.

It's almost as if you believe having local would stop a "much bigger alliance" from moving in, reinforce/destroy anything/something/everything and move out.

This is a fallacy.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-05-19 09:47:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Lord Zim wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
The above clearly say that you intend to remove local. My point is simple and remains the same. It is too easy for a much bigger alliance to move in, reinforce or destroy the upgrade and move out. A small entity would never have a hope in hell. Now you got no local until 5/6 weeks down the line and thats provided that it doesnt get attacked meanwhile or destroyed again.

It's almost as if you believe having local would stop a "much bigger alliance" from moving in, reinforce/destroy anything/something/everything and move out.

This is a fallacy.


The intel. Is the key here. Now you got no local until another upgrade lvl 5 in 5/6 weeks down the line. Its totally ridiculous! You should have a "home advantage" and intel across blues! Otherwise, whats the use?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2012-05-19 09:54:55 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
The intel. Is the key here. Now you got no local until another upgrade lvl 5 in 5/6 weeks down the line. Its totally ridiculous! You should have a "home advantage" and intel across blues! Otherwise, whats the use?

What do you think you'd be able to do with "guys, 400 reds are in our system, what do we do?" with a few seconds more of warning?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-05-19 09:57:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Lord Zim wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
The intel. Is the key here. Now you got no local until another upgrade lvl 5 in 5/6 weeks down the line. Its totally ridiculous! You should have a "home advantage" and intel across blues! Otherwise, whats the use?

What do you think you'd be able to do with "guys, 400 reds are in our system, what do we do?" with a few seconds more of warning?


you are missing the point. its not about the seconds. its about intel. seeing you, saying where you are going. picking up one or two straglers using intel. All that good stuff which has made eve, eve.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2012-05-19 10:01:12 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
you are missing the point. its not about the seconds. its about intel. seeing you, saying where you are going. picking up one or two straglers using intel. All that good stuff which has made eve, eve.

Good scouts would do this, too.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#77 - 2012-05-19 10:05:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Lord Zim wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
you are missing the point. its not about the seconds. its about intel. seeing you, saying where you are going. picking up one or two straglers using intel. All that good stuff which has made eve, eve.

Good scouts would do this, too.


i could also say the same for you. Keep local and a good interceptor with dscan skills can trap anyone.
The difference is, you got to have home advantage. A module for local removes that compltelly for over a month minimum, if you are lucky!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2012-05-19 10:12:42 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
i could also say the same for you. Keep local and a good interceptor with dscan skills can trap anyone.
The difference is, you got to have home advantage. A module for local removes that compltelly for over a month,

So if a good interceptor with good dscan skills can trap anyone, then you don't need any other crutches. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2012-05-19 10:15:37 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
i could also say the same for you. Keep local and a good interceptor with dscan skills can trap anyone.
The difference is, you got to have home advantage. A module for local removes that compltelly for over a month,

So if a good interceptor with good dscan skills can trap anyone, then you don't need any other crutches. vOv


we see all the time frigates and other ships catching anything from a frigate to a freighter to a super capital. This should be nothing new to you.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-05-19 10:20:40 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
we see all the time frigates and other ships catching anything from a frigate to a freighter to a super capital. This should be nothing new to you.

Yes, and this isn't dependent on local.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat