Jita Park Speakers Corner

Industry & Mining - When the shooting is done, someone has to re-build everything. The mechanics, UI and content for this area of the game all need a look at.

Some people like mining. Should we let them pay for therapy with PLEX? Seriously, mining and industry need work, and I know players have some ideas for what they would like to see done. Lets hear them.

My ideas on industry series on my blog: http://mararinn.blogspot.com/search/label/industry

Seleene has seen a lot of these already.

Executive summary:

• Incorporate the Resurrection Men into PI industry + DUST514 game play
• Focus on XXXX play style for industry folks: Discover, Extract, Carry, Refine, Manufacture, Develop
• Update POS-based industry so individuals can pay their own rent for slots
• Progressively enhance mining, rather than attempting to overhaul it or replace it

I do not support any attempt to overhaul or rework mining. Just because mining doesn't appeal to the ADHD types who enjoy "solo" PvP in Dodixie doesn't mean mining is "broken". "Solo" PvP doesn't appeal to miners: does that mean that PvP is broken? No. EVE is a game played by many different personality types.

Also: move R&D agent RP accrual to "projects" which must be initiated, rather than endless perpetual accrual. You pay the ISK to start the project, at the end of the project you are awarded RP. You then buy data cores using those RP. The only thing that changes is that once you start an R&D agent researching, that research will stop after a few weeks. And then take the data cores away from FW LP stores. That was just a poorly conceived idea from someone obviously scraping the barrel for things to chuck into the FW LP store to make it shiny and attractive (aka: FW LP store as a monkey trap).

The combination of high laser yields and tiny cargohold not at all suited for ore makes Rokh mining an exercise in pure misery.

That said I don't think an all-tank Exhumer would be of any value to anyone outside of a small few. Look how many people are even flying untanked/poorly tanked Hulks at all during Hulkageddon and you realize one thing - yield trumps all else. You could make an Exhumer that could tank a dread fleet and it'd still never get used if its yield was less than that of a Hulk with zero tank.

The only mining ship that requires even a moment's thought is the Hulk, and even then it's pretty much down to compromising yield/cargo for tank. The fact that most people will constantly choose the former (thus making the ganker's job unbelievably easy) and then crying about it later isn't a balance thing, it's a "too many Hulk pilots are dumber than mud" thing.

Actually, they're remarkably similar if you think about it. The Catalyst goes full gank since Concord will destroy it regardless of tank, so it can afford to go 100% damage and ignore all else. It does this at the cost of being ridiculously fragile and literally useless outside of its role. A Hulk fit for 100% mining (yield/cargo) is the same principle, with the difference being the less-than-intelligent Hulk pilots are doing it in an environment where it can easily come back to haunt them, and they're doing it in a ship that's 300x as expensive as a Catalyst. That's purely their own fault, doubly so since the highly increased risk is due to an event literally called "Hulkageddon", which is happening for the fifth time.

What it comes down to at the end of the day is a problem of attitude - miners (the kind that bleat about gankers and Hulkageddon, anyway) want guarantees in a game that's entire hook is that there are none. They want to be able to do Their Favorite Thing in 100% safety, and any alternative, be it flying a cheaper ship, tanking their expensive one at the cost of their yield, putting more thought into picking systems aren't ever going to be considered since none of them is a 100% guarantee of safety. Needless to say, that's a problematic attitude, and one that shouldn't be considered when it comes to balance issues.

It would be good if you could get CCP to clarify their long term plans for T2 production, and the rationale behind their plans.

"We want to move T2 production more towards low and zero-sec." - CCP Soundwave
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1230077#post1230077

Guy above me just rambled off everything I hate about PI and how to fix it.

Also, just beef up mining barges to have heavier tanks and bigger structures. You and even roleplay it off because of preasure from the insurance company on ORE to reinforce their ships against attack.

Right, the "silent majority". Maybe the "silent majority" could step up and explain exactly WHY tanking a Hulk is some impossible feat? Or perhaps they'd like to go big and tell the class why they should be invincible while mining "just because"?

I do have some questions about production.

T2 BPO's. I think that statement encapsulates just about everything. It makes no sense for me to invent a T2 BPC with the risks involved and the inability to do _something_ to get out of the -4, -4 bind. It makes much more sense for me to buy a T2 BPC created off the T2 BPO's which would have better ME than I could possibly get with invention. In the long run, I personally think it's cheaper if you at least think of the saving time by circumventing the invention process, which is hard to guarantee on the more valuable items, iirc.

What are the CSM's thoughts on this?

Some examples, if all materials required were purchased off market. This is severely boiled down, but I am just painting a picture:

Invented Void M: -4, -4 (ME, PE)

Crystalline Carbonide - 24K
Fullerides - 972000
R.A.M. Ammunition Tech - 36k

Trit - 39,480
Pyer - 74
Morphite - 5.5k
Megacyte - 26.8k
Zydrine - 90k
Mex - 600

Total Min Cost: About 162-163K
Total Cost: About 1.2 mil per batch

Rough cost is about 1194.454 isk per unit if I were to invent it myself. This does not factor in the cost of invention, just production once invention has been completed.

BPC from BPO Void M: 20, 20 (ME, PE)

Crystalline Carbonide - 16.1K
Fullerides - 652050
R.A.M. Ammunition Tech - 36k

Trit - 26.5k
Pyer - 50
Morphite - 3.6k
Mega - 18k
Zyd - 60k
Mex - 380
Total Min Cost: 108k
Total Cost: 812150

Rough cost is about 812.15 per unit if I were to purchase a BPC with 20 ME/PE. This does not factor in the cost of purchasing the BPC.

Since I rarely get the opportunity to purchase any T2 Hybrid ammo below 1K, I am assuming that the T2 producers that own BPO's are just banking, which I'm sure is more than stating the obvious. That is fine, let them bank... but I have absolutely no way to compete with them. They will ALWAYS have this edge because I cannot, iirc, get any better ME/PE than -4/-4 from invention. It'll always be easier for me to purchase BPC's because of any additional loss I have to accrue just to get the invented T2 BPC. Purchasing researched BPC's also just sends isk to their pockets, anyway, so this monopoly is total.

I remember seeing a Void L BPO in contracts along with some other rare BPC or BPO. Started at 36 billion... and I have to admit, I personally thought it would be worth the price if I had the isk.

Not worried about the guys that have done well in industry, I'm just annoyed that there is no way for me to work hard enough to compete with them.

BPCs make no sense. Licensed production runs? Gimme a break. Either I know how to build something or I do not. Get rid of them as part of a revamping of the way production and invention work as a whole.

Find a way to bring industrial pilots (both miners and manufacturers) out to null and lowsec. This should be a top priority. Empire building should consist of something more than just farming rats for bounties and shooting at other players. You should actually have to, you know, build stuff. As it stands, pretty much everything is imported from highsec and this is a problem because industrialists should be able to enjoy the heart of EVE just as much as leet PvPers.