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CCP handing over datacores to FW and say g-bye to research/T2 in hisec.

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-05-17 17:38:17 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Katarina Reid wrote:
When CCP Soundwave said: "We want to move T2 production more towards low and zero-sec". I thought the only way was to give low/0.0 a bonus to invention chance or production costs. Then it wouldnt be profitable to make t2 in high sec anymore. Just moving the datacores will do nothing.


First off, it's dubious that nullsec/lowsec need any more incentives. Specially nullsec.You want an incentive for nullsec? Open it to players who don't come from Something Awful or whatever alien grounds the uberalliances get their new recruits. Get rid of uberalaliances and turn nulsle citn the blodo ywild west isntead of medievla europe and oh don't trespass meh baron's border.

Second, as has been stated enough times to get through even the thickest skulls, more reward is not going to make people prefer nullsec or lowsec over hisec. More reward as mcuh may keep people there, but whoever choose to stay in hisec, is going to stay or quit, won't move up the risk ladder no matter what oyu do. This is why 3/4 of the bloody game are in hisec.

People choose a risk/reward and stick to it or quit.

So essentially people will not move from hisec as long as they are allowed to build T2 there. Which means that CCP Goonwave must remove T2 from hisec in order to effectively hand it to nullsec.

Listen, first of all, if you're so angry that you can't even type whole sentences without every other word being misspelled horribly, then maybe you should count to 10.

Second of all, I have 9 characters, 2 of which are in nullsec, the rest are stowed away in various places in hisec. What does that do to your precious statistic?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#22 - 2012-05-17 19:49:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Lord Zim wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Katarina Reid wrote:
When CCP Soundwave said: "We want to move T2 production more towards low and zero-sec". I thought the only way was to give low/0.0 a bonus to invention chance or production costs. Then it wouldnt be profitable to make t2 in high sec anymore. Just moving the datacores will do nothing.


First off, it's dubious that nullsec/lowsec need any more incentives. Specially nullsec.You want an incentive for nullsec? Open it to players who don't come from Something Awful or whatever alien grounds the uberalliances get their new recruits. Get rid of uberalaliances and turn nulsle citn the blodo ywild west isntead of medievla europe and oh don't trespass meh baron's border.

Second, as has been stated enough times to get through even the thickest skulls, more reward is not going to make people prefer nullsec or lowsec over hisec. More reward as mcuh may keep people there, but whoever choose to stay in hisec, is going to stay or quit, won't move up the risk ladder no matter what oyu do. This is why 3/4 of the bloody game are in hisec.

People choose a risk/reward and stick to it or quit.

So essentially people will not move from hisec as long as they are allowed to build T2 there. Which means that CCP Goonwave must remove T2 from hisec in order to effectively hand it to nullsec.

Listen, first of all, if you're so angry that you can't even type whole sentences without every other word being misspelled horribly, then maybe you should count to 10.

Second of all, I have 9 characters, 2 of which are in nullsec, the rest are stowed away in various places in hisec. What does that do to your precious statistic?


72% of the characters LOGGED IN.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-05-17 19:52:33 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
72% of the characters LOGGED IN.

Yes, and?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#24 - 2012-05-17 20:07:26 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
72% of the characters LOGGED IN.

Yes, and?


The stat accounts characters logged in, not existing characters. Your point makes no difference.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-05-17 20:09:56 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
72% of the characters LOGGED IN.

Yes, and?


The stat accounts characters logged in, not existing characters. Your point makes no difference.

And which of my characters do you think are most likely to be logged on at any given time?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#26 - 2012-05-17 20:37:57 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
72% of the characters LOGGED IN.

Yes, and?


The stat accounts characters logged in, not existing characters. Your point makes no difference.

And which of my characters do you think are most likely to be logged on at any given time?


So you lied. Roll Naughty troll...
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-05-17 20:58:36 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
72% of the characters LOGGED IN.

Yes, and?


The stat accounts characters logged in, not existing characters. Your point makes no difference.

And which of my characters do you think are most likely to be logged on at any given time?


So you lied. Roll Naughty troll...

I guess I'll just have to spell it out for you, then: my hisec chars are most likely to be logged on at any given time.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#28 - 2012-05-18 16:35:02 UTC
I can't comprehend how anyone would imagine that giving a boost to industry in low/null, even at the expense of industry in highsec (where it is far and away the most dominant at this time), would be a bad thing.

Pirates and sov holding alliances should be able to provide for themselves. Let industry spread throughout ALL of New Eden and not just in high security space (which is really mostly just for new players anyway, in theory.)

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Tessla Coil
Pirannha Corp
#29 - 2012-05-21 16:46:08 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Do you CSM guys think it's worth to notice/comment on the issue? Are you OK with it?

Have a look at the thread and read what CCP Goonwave has to say and what everybody else has to say:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1200907#post1200907

Just in case you didn't notice, huh.


I can tell you the CSM actively discussed the pros and cons of this with CCP and we did notice a number of posts that players made with feedback when we had those discussions.

So we are working for you guys, I promise.

Issler


If what you say is true, then every word I have said about accusing the csm of being puppets/agents of the null sec zealots is absolutely accurate.

If there was any neutrality in the csm, they would have stopped this madness of all the attacks on the majority of their subscriptions, the high sec playerbase.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#30 - 2012-05-22 00:14:02 UTC
Tessla Coil wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Do you CSM guys think it's worth to notice/comment on the issue? Are you OK with it?

Have a look at the thread and read what CCP Goonwave has to say and what everybody else has to say:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1200907#post1200907

Just in case you didn't notice, huh.


I can tell you the CSM actively discussed the pros and cons of this with CCP and we did notice a number of posts that players made with feedback when we had those discussions.

So we are working for you guys, I promise.

Issler


If what you say is true, then every word I have said about accusing the csm of being puppets/agents of the null sec zealots is absolutely accurate.

If there was any neutrality in the csm, they would have stopped this madness of all the attacks on the majority of their subscriptions, the high sec playerbase.


We can provide feedback to CCP but we can't demand they do what we want. I definitely offered some modifications that would allow the folks using R&D agents to have about the same experience as we do today.

Issler
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#31 - 2012-05-22 06:45:59 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Tessla Coil wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Do you CSM guys think it's worth to notice/comment on the issue? Are you OK with it?

Have a look at the thread and read what CCP Goonwave has to say and what everybody else has to say:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1200907#post1200907

Just in case you didn't notice, huh.


I can tell you the CSM actively discussed the pros and cons of this with CCP and we did notice a number of posts that players made with feedback when we had those discussions.

So we are working for you guys, I promise.

Issler


If what you say is true, then every word I have said about accusing the csm of being puppets/agents of the null sec zealots is absolutely accurate.

If there was any neutrality in the csm, they would have stopped this madness of all the attacks on the majority of their subscriptions, the high sec playerbase.


We can provide feedback to CCP but we can't demand they do what we want. I definitely offered some modifications that would allow the folks using R&D agents to have about the same experience as we do today.

Issler


Well, that's about the size of it... that's all you can do, voice against, but all in all it's CCP Goonwave who was hired by CCP to determine that passive income is baaaad and 23/7 moon mining is gooood, among other things.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-05-22 07:31:47 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Well, that's about the size of it... that's all you can do, voice against, but all in all it's CCP Goonwave who was hired by CCP to determine that passive income is baaaad and 23/7 moon mining is gooood, among other things.

I guess we'll see soundwave remove PI as well then, since that's even more passive than moon mining.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-05-22 07:59:19 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Well, that's about the size of it... that's all you can do, voice against, but all in all it's CCP Goonwave who was hired by CCP to determine that passive income is baaaad and 23/7 moon mining is gooood, among other things.


hey guess who came up with the idea of ring mining

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#34 - 2012-05-22 12:16:19 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Well, that's about the size of it... that's all you can do, voice against, but all in all it's CCP Goonwave who was hired by CCP to determine that passive income is baaaad and 23/7 moon mining is gooood, among other things.

I guess we'll see soundwave remove PI as well then, since that's even more passive than moon mining.


Only PI in hi-sec - he has no problem with passive incomes anywhere else.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#35 - 2012-05-22 12:35:42 UTC
Imryn Xaran wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Well, that's about the size of it... that's all you can do, voice against, but all in all it's CCP Goonwave who was hired by CCP to determine that passive income is baaaad and 23/7 moon mining is gooood, among other things.

I guess we'll see soundwave remove PI as well then, since that's even more passive than moon mining.


Only PI in hi-sec - he has no problem with passive incomes anywhere else.


Exactly. Blink
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-05-22 12:37:50 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Imryn Xaran wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Well, that's about the size of it... that's all you can do, voice against, but all in all it's CCP Goonwave who was hired by CCP to determine that passive income is baaaad and 23/7 moon mining is gooood, among other things.

I guess we'll see soundwave remove PI as well then, since that's even more passive than moon mining.


Only PI in hi-sec - he has no problem with passive incomes anywhere else.


Exactly. Blink

And this is a problem? Why?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Serina Tsukaya
Dropbears Anonymous
Brave Collective
#37 - 2012-05-23 10:20:56 UTC
Moon mining isn't as passive as you'd think, you need to move stuff around in the pos, set up jobs, etc, and keep the thing fueled, which is a large expense. Pi has tax rates (Unless you own the PCO), and in one way or another, requires you to actively do something (moving mining heads around, change what you're actually extracting, or for those who do mass production, move things to and from the planets). And then you have Research agents. Grind up the standings, get the agent, and then go play something else for a month, come back, and cash out major amounts of datacores with your ONLY burden being having to dock up in that station and move those data cores to a market hub or to your pos system for invention.

Moon mining also brings around conflict as to the ownership of that moon, Pi will do so soon with Dust coming out, whilst there is no way to prevent others from obtaining a research agent and getting the datacores.


PS: A lot of those skills you needed for those agents can actually be used in T2 production, so it's not wasted.
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#38 - 2012-05-25 11:12:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
Serina Tsukaya wrote:
PS: A lot of those skills you needed for those agents can actually be used in T2 production, so it's not wasted.


This is my main, I got him a few skills in science so he could get datacores occasionally because he has the standings...
He's not my research toon who has no standings...

Therefore the skills are a waste.

Many/Most people would be in the same boat - their main is where their standings are to get the agent, so they got the skills on that toon.

You don't sit your main in empire in a POS doing t2 research, usually they are in 0.0 fighting. Likewise a daily trip to empire to do it is prohibitive also..

Personally, I'm not concerned with any of it. As long as I can still buy datacores for the same amount as I can now and they don't just trash the entire market with these shenanigans.

T2 BPO's are FAR more harmful to the t2 production industrial side.

.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-05-25 12:42:21 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:
T2 BPO's are FAR more harmful to the t2 production industrial side.

People keep mistaking this fallacy for fact.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
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