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Putting the Kibosh on Ineptitude
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Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-05-17 03:31:30 UTC
from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/05/putting-kibosh-on-ineptitude.html

A few days ago I wrote a post highlighting a recent *bad fit*. I was convinced that nobody could possibly fit a ship that poorly, on purpose. I coined the kill a trollfit.

I was wrong. (No surprise there, I suppose.)

The fit is simply that bad. Mister [name withheld] is more than willing to fit *Navy Issue Megathrons* just as poorly.

I'm willing to believe and think that some people will sh*tfit a Tornado for the lols and the attention. But doing so to a 400M ISK hull? That's stretching credulity a tad.

I'm no expert at fitting, likely not very good at it oft times, but I know I've the wherewithal not to put something together quite as bad as dude's Tornado or Megathron. Fit for the bonuses. Don't mix ranges on your weaponry. Two cardinal rules that seem all too obvious to me. Even as a one-day old newbie, I could not see myself fitting a ship that horribly. And thus, it was hard to fathom that anyone else could not see the fail in those fits as well.

Incompetence is rampant in EVE Online. This has been pointed out to me. Several times.

*Crap Fit*
*Bad Fit*
*Horrible Fit*
*WTF Fit*

And that's just a drop in the bucket.

But it got me to thinking. Wouldn't it make for a better EVE Online, for everyone, if people fit their ships better? Next time you destroy a horri-fit, maybe spend 10 minutes and throw your victim an evemail, giving them two or three pointers on how to better fit their ships. The evemail might be nothing more than a pointer about fitting same weapon same ammo, and reading their ship bonuses. That guy ends up improving his fit, you might get a bit better of a fight next time and that "gf" in local will have a little more meaning behind it.

***

(killmail *links* are in the post linked above. kept from linking directly here, since it may be against terms of service to call attention to specific bad fits in the forums.)
Alyssa Yotosala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-05-17 03:33:12 UTC
Cool story bro...

but whats a Kibosh?
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-05-17 03:36:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Alyssa Yotosala wrote:
... but whats a Kibosh?
There's this thing called a dictionary. You might find it useful. :)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kibosh?s=t
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2012-05-17 03:43:55 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I'm willing to believe and think that some people will sh*tfit a Tornado for the lols and the attention. But doing so to a 400M ISK hull? That's stretching credulity a tad.

You need to get out more. It's more common than you might think: http://latenightalliance.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13335430

edit: Very common. http://latenightalliance.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12599374

edit 2: I can keep going with this. http://latenightalliance.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11257142

How did you Veterans start?
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-05-17 03:48:23 UTC
An armor tanked CNR with mostly empty mid slots... I have nothing to say

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-05-17 03:50:03 UTC
I can confirm that dictionaries are useful.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-05-17 04:13:08 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I'm willing to believe and think that some people will sh*tfit a Tornado for the lols and the attention. But doing so to a 400M ISK hull? That's stretching credulity a tad.

You need to get out more. It's more common than you might think: http://latenightalliance.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13335430

edit: Very common. http://latenightalliance.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12599374

edit 2: I can keep going with this. http://latenightalliance.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11257142


So linking to/calling out inept fits directly on the forums is not against the EULA? Cool. I will add the links in an edit tomorrow. Getting late. Time for sleep.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2012-05-17 04:31:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
So linking to/calling out inept fits directly on the forums is not against the EULA? Cool. I will add the links in an edit tomorrow. Getting late. Time for sleep.

Technically it isn't (forum rules). But it does appear to be tolerated when used to illustrate something.

How did you Veterans start?
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#9 - 2012-05-17 04:35:07 UTC
That drake is actually kind of a unique fit. Granted it's not the best e-war boat and its got practically no tank, but still fascinating. As a solo ship definitely a bad idea. Maybe as part of a rag tag gate blob he could have some fun with that funky build though I doubt he would ever jam anything higher than a frigate.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Ares Renton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-05-17 04:45:13 UTC
When I was a new player, I just found stuff off of rats and fit it to my ship. Since people can just PLEX themselves an expensive ship, anybody can get ahold of a Navy Megathron these days and fit it with crap they found on rats.

Not everybody takes the time to read guides, and a lot of players try to figure things out themselves. I'm sure that a lot of them go by the line of thought "well I want a small weapon to shoot frigates with, a big weapon to shoot battleships with, and a short range weapon and a long range weapon so I can cover all ranges of engagement".

Or maybe they just look at all those rows and rows of numbers and have no idea what they mean?

Anyways, I'd like to have the fortune of encountering fits like those in PVP so please don't tell them they're flying utterly inefficient builds.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-05-17 05:34:45 UTC
It isn't against the EULA because you are not calling for direct harassment, or inciting whatever vs a person, only the fit. Only commenting on something out of game.

That said, If the person did it with a mega, yeah I think they are still trolling. There actually are people with that much money to troll with. The huge thing about failfits, at least in early stage is basic logic doesn't apply to the concept of an eve fit. The new players definitely need a bit more of a drivers training tutorial that explains the how to of fitting. Those CDIA files or whatever. need more of those with remote links. Except links like to fail, so wonder if possible to do it in game videos.

Wait, we have that massive station big screen. .BNK files, or a window popup if in station view.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Ares Renton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-05-17 05:38:07 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:

That said, If the person did it with a mega, yeah I think they are still trolling. There actually are people with that much money to troll with.


Well the thing about trolling is that the premise is to make someone else look like an idiot, or to waste their time and money.

When you make yourself look like an idiot and waste your own time and money, you're not a troll, you're just an idiot.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-05-17 05:50:38 UTC
Also depends on the person that is looking like an idiot. Some people (well alot of people) do dumb things just to get a rise out of others. Even more stand a gawk. So yeah, not a troll per se, but still causing a longer post.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Malak Dawnfire
Unquestionable Prosperity
Grand Inquisitors Federation
#14 - 2012-05-17 05:58:42 UTC
I've had a few bad fits, mine still probably isn't optimal but I always tend to check websites or ask around for suggestions on better fits as I move up the ship ladder, sounds like this guy should do the same thing.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-05-17 12:11:41 UTC
An anonymous poster over on the blog explained the sh*tfit mindset to me:

Quote:
I used to mix railguns and hybrids on my thorax, so I can explain the mind set to you just fine.

"Man, the short range on blasters really sucks, getting kited is really annoying. *ponders* O MY GOD I HAVE THE SOLUTION. IF I FIT A RAILGUN I CAN DO DAMAGE AT RANGE TOO. I AM A GENIUS.

And with this tracking disruptor and overdrive injector I can SPEEDTANK EVERYTHING! HELL YEAH! And with Inertia Stabilizers I can WARP FASTER, SO GATECAMPS WON'T CATCH ME! WOOT!

Unfortunately there is not enough CPU left for a decent tank so BRING ON THE CIVILIAN SHIELD BOOSTERS. Everyone will look at the kills I make with this and think: woah, got a kill despite having only a civilian shield booster fitted. He must be good at EVE!

EHP is still kinda ****** though. If I downgrade 2 of the heavy ions to light electrons I could fit some armor tank in the last low slots. I will do that. AND THE LIGHT ELECTRONS MEAN I CAN KILL FRIGATES EVEN EASIER, OMG!

THIS IS THE MOST AMAZING FIT EVER SEEN BY MAN!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#16 - 2012-05-17 12:24:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
The mining Rokh isn't that bad, needs some improvement though. The other fits are just lolworthy, I would term them as Kitchen Sink fits, because it's the only thing that the owners didn't fit.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-05-17 12:34:51 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/05/putting-kibosh-on-ineptitude.html

A few days ago I wrote a post highlighting a recent *bad fit*. I was convinced that nobody could possibly fit a ship that poorly, on purpose. I coined the kill a trollfit.

I was wrong. (No surprise there, I suppose.)

The fit is simply that bad. Mister [name withheld] is more than willing to fit *Navy Issue Megathrons* just as poorly.

I'm willing to believe and think that some people will sh*tfit a Tornado for the lols and the attention. But doing so to a 400M ISK hull? That's stretching credulity a tad.

I'm no expert at fitting, likely not very good at it oft times, but I know I've the wherewithal not to put something together quite as bad as dude's Tornado or Megathron. Fit for the bonuses. Don't mix ranges on your weaponry. Two cardinal rules that seem all too obvious to me. Even as a one-day old newbie, I could not see myself fitting a ship that horribly. And thus, it was hard to fathom that anyone else could not see the fail in those fits as well.

Incompetence is rampant in EVE Online. This has been pointed out to me. Several times.

*Crap Fit*
*Bad Fit*
*Horrible Fit*
*WTF Fit*

And that's just a drop in the bucket.

But it got me to thinking. Wouldn't it make for a better EVE Online, for everyone, if people fit their ships better? Next time you destroy a horri-fit, maybe spend 10 minutes and throw your victim an evemail, giving them two or three pointers on how to better fit their ships. The evemail might be nothing more than a pointer about fitting same weapon same ammo, and reading their ship bonuses. That guy ends up improving his fit, you might get a bit better of a fight next time and that "gf" in local will have a little more meaning behind it.

***

(killmail *links* are in the post linked above. kept from linking directly here, since it may be against terms of service to call attention to specific bad fits in the forums.)




The day I decide to leave the game, you can be sure the fits you'll find in my gank/grief and whatever ships I'll take to burn my isk, will make you write another blog like that one.

Lol fits?
-officer/dead space fit Rifter.
-officer dead space fit Velator
-double tank torp/laser Navy Mega
-180's nano vindi
-civilian fit Tengu/proteus/Loki
-heavy pulse laser II Machariel
-passive tank 15 drones chimaera
-fill the Orca wih as much ships/modules/ore I can, double tank and self destruct at entry gate to Jita
-shoot (nos) gates in high sec with hulk and mackinaw
-disco phoon at rookie system

Biomass each char and /bye, just like I do in every game I've played, I never come back.



brb
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#18 - 2012-05-17 12:38:32 UTC
So how does a person come up with a crap fit?
Easily explained - they do not understand what the strengths and weaknesses are of a particular combination of mods BECAUSE they do not understand the maths. And some people don't want to.
That is the one BIG failing of Eve - it is required for people to understand quite sophisticated inter-dependencies - without a manual and the result is fail fits.

Generally the way to help these people is to educate them. So stop being assholes and show them... HELP them and they will be better because of it and you will get a better fight (as was said earlier)

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
Josef Djugashvilis
#19 - 2012-05-17 14:03:17 UTC
I am inept, and as Eve is a sandbox, I insist on the freedom to stay inept.

Currently training 'inept' lvl 5

This is not a signature.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#20 - 2012-05-17 15:42:21 UTC
My theory on those "kitchen sink" fits is that they haven't figured out that most ships have bonuses on certain weapon systems. If you don't know that AND you aren't aware of the fact that damage mods are weapon-specific, then there's some weird logic to throwing one of each kind of gun on your ship.

Look at modern naval vessels. They have torpedoes, cruise missiles, big guns, small guns, anti-missile gun batteries...loading a ship with eight of the same size gun with nothing else on it would be suicide, as it couldn't hold its own against anything BUT ships vulnerable to that particular type of weapon. From a "I don't read item descriptions" perspective, it makes sense to put guns with different ranges and damage types on a ship. That way you can shoot frigates with the two small autocannons you put on your battleship but still be able to snipe with those two large tachs you stuck on there.

Eve would definitely do well to have better fitting training early in the tutorials, including making the viewing of ship and module descriptions and attributes a required part of an early tutorial mission. SHOW them that certain ships should use certain weapons, teach them to identify the modules they need to have a semi-competent fitting, and then cut them lose.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
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