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Skin tones - CCP, this is not how ethnicity works

First post
Author
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-05-09 18:48:05 UTC
Oh my god. Clear eyeglasses.

CCP, I cannot express just much how much I love you right now.

Have my babies.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#62 - 2012-05-09 21:05:25 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Come on, CCP Karkur... we've moved down from 72 racial skin tones* to 16, and you just killed yellow, red and olive skins in the process. Are you sure that newspeak is not the third language for CCP? Blink

I see red people every day, but not in New Eden. I see yellow poeple every day, but not in New Eden. I see olive people in my mirror, but not in New Eden. In a rough estimate, your new skin tones just left out 75% of humanity. Roll

When those colors were made, the artists made sure they covered the old default colors. The 9th color in the color wheel is olive.
The new colors do cover a wide range of skin colors (not just white and black), and I really hope everyone can find a color they like.


CCP Karkur, you can't cover 72 choices with 14. What? Want proof? My main's color is gone, and there's nothing that even resembles it... She's darker than 7, redder than 8, less yellow than 9, and lighter than 10. Oh, ain't she out of luck?

Look at me... you won't be seeing any skin color like this after Inferno

This aside, I dislike this kind of "one size fits all" approaches. We all wear the same clothes, do our hair the sam way, now we all sport the same skin colours... what will be next? Everyone having the same eyes, the same nose, the same cheeks? It's quite depressing IRL going to another country and see exaclty the same brand shops, and now it turns that there in New Eden all capsuleers are of one of merely 14 skin colors. Call that "diversity" if you want to, but that's not diversity in my book, it's the exact opposite, is homogenization.

14 colors per race instead of 6 would be more diversity. But 14 colors instead of 72 is not more diversity.

And shame on you if I ever lose my main's color due to some glitch in preserving the old diversity. Evil
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-05-09 23:10:13 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
As of today, awesome bug has been turned into awesome feature... I doubt that it will go out in Inferno, and I don't know how it will enter the game, but the asset is in P


I will do anything to have you roll this out with Inferno. ANYTHING. Shocked

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

George Whitebread
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2012-05-11 18:48:46 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
Only thing I'm not going to be keen about is less subtle variation in the existing skin tones.


More variety is fine. But less subtlety isn't.

Straight


Couldn't have said it better myself. I don't like how this seems to lose grips with any connection to realism. Straight

"I say what I like, and I like what I bloody well say" - George Whitebread

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-05-11 19:34:36 UTC
Yeah, on another note, CCP, please reconsider this skin tones business. At least delay its release for a while.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#66 - 2012-05-11 19:48:07 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Yeah, on another note, CCP, please reconsider this skin tones business. At least delay its release for a while.


You know, this is some kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't situation...

From Team Avatar's POV: either tell management that they essentially wasted the art resources allocated to them because players won't buy the final product; or **** off players by not listening to their reasonable demands to preserve old and better content and not asking them prior to undertake the hacking down of diversity.

From pro-WiS POV: either we buy what they hand to us, and so everyhting will go in the future; or don't buy it, so wer'e ungrateful pricks and there's no point to throw us any bones.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#67 - 2012-05-11 20:29:22 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Sorry for getting short with you guys. That was unacceptable behaviour on my part and I apologise.

It's just that myself and many other Incarna enthusiasts have been after this basically since Incursion in early 2011 and we've always either been straight out not answered or told "I'll ask the art team", and never given a response.
No problem at all, apology accepted Smile
Anyways, shortly after I replied, the creative director came back and I asked him whether we would ever consider that. He said he wanted to give all bloodline access to all clothes at some point, but probably through the LP store or something like that (I don't know if he has discussed it with the art director, who may or may not agree). So there is no timeline on it, but there is at lest interest in doing it. I didn't ask about the hairstyle, but from my point of view, we will need to lift some restrictions if we put in racial blending (whether it's give you access to the hairstyle of the other bloodline or something else),
I hope that answers some of your questions somewhat... I'm not sure there is any better answers at this point. Smile


Thanks for asking... and by the way this:

Quote:
He said he wanted to give all bloodline access to all clothes at some point, but probably through the LP store or something like that (I don't know if he has discussed it with the art director, who may or may not agree).


has HUGE implications for the NEX store and items offered (and potentially being offered) through it.

Many of us have no problem with the NEX store, but also feel that some things should be available through LP stores or other means.

Of course, we'd pretty much ALL prefer the means to "make" these items be made available from the NEX, rather than the finished product, but that's another issue entirely.

Anyway, not to derail, thanks again.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-05-12 23:58:10 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Oh my god. Clear eyeglasses.

CCP, I cannot express just much how much I love you right now.

Have my babies.


Wow, youre a nerd playing a character that looks like a total nerd..
Solhild
Doomheim
#69 - 2012-05-13 08:12:58 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Oh my god. Clear eyeglasses.

CCP, I cannot express just much how much I love you right now.

Have my babies.


Wow, youre a nerd playing a character that looks like a total nerd..


.....without eyelashes!
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#70 - 2012-05-13 15:49:12 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu328/Seriphyn/ccpdiversity.png < gooby wat da fak
Secondly, if skin tones are freely available, why aren't hair colours as well? Restricted hair colours infers racial consistency...unrestricted skin tones does not. (locked clothing debate also)
The hair color restrictions have been lifted P

You have just made my month. I missed my black hair.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security

Selinate
#71 - 2012-05-13 15:51:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Selinate
I think this might be off-topic, but with the amarr female default overcoats that are currently implemented on TQ, there are some clipping issues with the hands around the waste because the coats are so thick. Really really bad clipping issues. Any word on fixing this?
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-05-13 16:25:12 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Wow, youre a nerd playing a character that looks like a total nerd..


And?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

George Whitebread
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2012-05-13 17:41:29 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Wow, youre a nerd playing a character that looks like a total nerd..


And?


Owned! Lol

"I say what I like, and I like what I bloody well say" - George Whitebread

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2012-05-14 10:47:33 UTC
George Whitebread wrote:
Owned! Lol


I found the idea of someone playing EVE Online, and furthermore playing EVE Online on the test server calling someone else a nerd as if it meant anything pretty damn hilarious.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#75 - 2012-05-16 13:31:38 UTC
Solhild wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Oh my god. Clear eyeglasses.

CCP, I cannot express just much how much I love you right now.

Have my babies.


Wow, youre a nerd playing a character that looks like a total nerd..


.....without eyelashes!


There is no collision detection between eyelashes and glasses, so the eyelashes are not rendered when wearing glasses else they would pierce through the "glass".

Anyway, IMHO, clear eyeglasses have no point in existing. I am sure that 23,000 year in the future correction glasses should have become obsolete in one way or another...
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#76 - 2012-05-16 13:58:00 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Solhild wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Oh my god. Clear eyeglasses.

CCP, I cannot express just much how much I love you right now.

Have my babies.


Wow, youre a nerd playing a character that looks like a total nerd..


.....without eyelashes!


There is no collision detection between eyelashes and glasses, so the eyelashes are not rendered when wearing glasses else they would pierce through the "glass".

Anyway, IMHO, clear eyeglasses have no point in existing. I am sure that 23,000 year in the future correction glasses should have become obsolete in one way or another...


And 23,000 years before EVE, people still wore glasses just because they liked the look, even if their eyesight was fine - you just have a pair of 'neutral' lenses, or go frames-only. It's a fashion statement.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2012-05-16 21:19:35 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
can't have the old ones and the new ones? I'm curious as to the limitation stopping you from having both available, or is it a design choice?

just so we are clear, when I talk about skintypes and skin tones, this is what I mean:
skintype = new skin colors
skin tone = old skin colors

We feel the current color skin tone range is too narrow and having to pick one of 6 skin tones that are pretty much the doesn't make that much sense. We want to allow characters of all bloodlines to use the new skintypes we created, and that range is pretty broad and the colors pretty evenly spread.
So if we wanted to have the old color also available, the options would be 20 for each bloodline, which is too much, and the color palette would just look weird with maybe 10 very white options(for Amarr), and then the rest.
Also, we want to move to use the new skintypes (behind the scenes they are totally different from the skin tones), but realize some people might not be happy to change colors so we are allowing people to keep their old skin tone until they actually apply a new skintype and save the character.


OH! i had never seen this reply : ) thanks! makes sense.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Tertharan
#78 - 2012-05-16 23:03:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tertharan
CCP karkur wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
can't have the old ones and the new ones? I'm curious as to the limitation stopping you from having both available, or is it a design choice?

just so we are clear, when I talk about skintypes and skin tones, this is what I mean:
skintype = new skin colors
skin tone = old skin colors

We feel the current color skin tone range is too narrow and having to pick one of 6 skin tones that are pretty much the doesn't make that much sense. We want to allow characters of all bloodlines to use the new skintypes we created, and that range is pretty broad and the colors pretty evenly spread.
So if we wanted to have the old color also available, the options would be 20 for each bloodline, which is too much, and the color palette would just look weird with maybe 10 very white options(for Amarr), and then the rest.
Also, we want to move to use the new skintypes (behind the scenes they are totally different from the skin tones), but realize some people might not be happy to change colors so we are allowing people to keep their old skin tone until they actually apply a new skintype and save the character.


You are thinking about this too narrowly, and trying to solve the wrong problem. The problem isn't that there are too many options and you need to pare it down. The real problem is that there's no easy way to stick them on a color wheel together. It shouldn't be too complicated to solve that problem either, just have relatively few main base colors on a color wheel, and then when you choose one have a bunch of different shades of that color to pick as your final color. If you do that, you can have your simplistic color wheel, and all the options become available to everyone. Best of all possible solutions.

You make a big mistake when you assume that it's possible to have too many options in character creation. The more diversity available the closer everyone can get to their vision for their character, and the happier everyone is.
Tertharan
#79 - 2012-05-16 23:04:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tertharan
double post
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#80 - 2012-05-20 05:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
Skintone severely bugged on Sisi - skin change after exiting re-sculpting to default (?) color. I wasn't able to keep pale skin on Gallente character - check this image:

http://i.imgur.com/n7oGp.jpg?1

Beware.