These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

If you really want to grief botters, afk'rs, industrialists and miners
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
liaxolox
Jol-Nar Industries
#101 - 2012-05-10 21:33:12 UTC
SuperKawaiiDesuYo wrote:

really if you want to gank vs players, just make an alt. it starts with no negative security status so the people who check local a lot won't have you marked as a negative status player. (most of us slightly less autistic miners check local/mark -sec status with standings to keep track of easier) you even have two extra slots on your account. plus, did you know? you can delete them and make new ones! just gank until -5.0 and there you go!


Recycling alts to avoid negative sec status will get you banned.
Haas Tabris
Peace Love n Harmony
#102 - 2012-05-15 22:49:34 UTC
Shea Valerien wrote:
As a pure mission runner and miner (when not wanting to pay a ton of attention to the game), I strongly support the nerfing of local. Makes the game more interesting and the whole idea of just knowing who's in the system based on who shows up on "chat" is a little.. well.. silly.


Another excellent reason for nerfing local. It's silly that our best intel system in the game is a chat channel, eh?
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#103 - 2012-05-16 00:46:04 UTC
How will nerfing local benefit my desire to grief gankers?Big smile
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#104 - 2012-05-16 00:55:10 UTC
It's a nice thought, but as many have mentioned, it will hardly affect the botters, and the trouble for gankers is that removing local becomes a double edged sword. Instead of clearing empty systems in the laborious search for ratters, you waste time checking belts and probing the system for anomolies, and without local you can't tell if there is a lookout in system for targets that may be one system over, and by then they have plenty of warning.

So close...
Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
#105 - 2012-05-16 01:01:59 UTC
Do it for no other reason that it makes sense. It makes sense and it will make things harder for everyone. More so for nulsec players. The harder anything is the better it will filter through people who are less able to do things.

Ferox #1
A'lan Wolf
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2012-05-16 02:16:25 UTC
Mugged Yougot wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Saying that it is technically PvP because the materials are used to build ships that may or may not be used in PvP is like saying going to work is technically going to war because the taxes off your salary goes to the state, which maintains the armed forces which may or may not be involved in armed conflict.
That is a bit far-fetched. Afaik, there is no 3rd World War at the moment. You take my argument and stretch it out beyond the implausible. If my tax-money are used to found various wars, I do not have any direct knowledge about it, and I certainly got no way to prevent it. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure you miners know that the ships you are supplying are used for PvP.



I'd like to see you pvp in a noctis, which is what i build and what i mine goes to that
A'lan Wolf
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2012-05-16 02:18:36 UTC
Francisco Bizzaro wrote:
Freggan wrote:
Francisco Bizzaro wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
No, technically mining is not in any form or shape PvP. Unless you mine in order to roll down the passenger window of your ship, and chuck the nuggets of ore at opposing players' ships.

You are competing against other players for the finite resources and when you sell them on the market. Hence PvP.


MMO's have mining and competing against others for profits etc, PVP is players vrs players directly not indirectly.

Come on its bad enough pointing out the finer points of things let alone the blatantly obvious.

Mining in Eve is PvP. Mining in WoW is not. The difference is one of those finer points.

Anyhow, the only real consequences you can have in this game are economic. So as long as you are hindering someone else's ability to make ISK, you are engaged in PvP.

So to return to the original question: Ganking is PvP. (and mining is too, whether or not you agree with me.)


How am i attacking other players when i mine? i dont attack other players no matter what my ship..i've never attacked another player ever..so how is my mining ship when used being used to attack other players??
Torneach
Doomheim
#108 - 2012-05-16 02:20:58 UTC
At the very least, remove cloaked pilots from local, and make it so they can't see local either.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#109 - 2012-05-16 02:21:10 UTC
A'lan Wolf wrote:
How am i attacking other players when i mine? i dont attack other players no matter what my ship..i've never attacked another player ever..so how is my mining ship when used being used to attack other players??


by defacing the beauty that is new eden's asteroid belts

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Torneach
Doomheim
#110 - 2012-05-16 02:22:42 UTC
A'lan Wolf wrote:
Francisco Bizzaro wrote:
Freggan wrote:
Francisco Bizzaro wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
No, technically mining is not in any form or shape PvP. Unless you mine in order to roll down the passenger window of your ship, and chuck the nuggets of ore at opposing players' ships.

You are competing against other players for the finite resources and when you sell them on the market. Hence PvP.


MMO's have mining and competing against others for profits etc, PVP is players vrs players directly not indirectly.

Come on its bad enough pointing out the finer points of things let alone the blatantly obvious.

Mining in Eve is PvP. Mining in WoW is not. The difference is one of those finer points.

Anyhow, the only real consequences you can have in this game are economic. So as long as you are hindering someone else's ability to make ISK, you are engaged in PvP.

So to return to the original question: Ganking is PvP. (and mining is too, whether or not you agree with me.)


How am i attacking other players when i mine? i dont attack other players no matter what my ship..i've never attacked another player ever..so how is my mining ship when used being used to attack other players??


Market competition, the ore/mins that you mine or the things that you produce affect supply, which in turn affects the prices and habits of the other people in the economy, both consumers and other producers.

Market PvP at its finest.
A'lan Wolf
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2012-05-16 02:22:42 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
No, technically mining is not in any form or shape PvP.



  • Warp to asteroid collection
  • Target asteroids that someone else is mining
  • Abort cycles before completion, extracting ore before the other miner
  • Pop rocks before other miner completes a cycle


Is that not PvP? My actions have an adverse impact on the other player's in-game state. There is also the option of logging in immediately after downtime and clearing out all the belts. This is PvP, even if time shifted by up to 23 hours. This is PvP.


so that is what YOU do? personally i log on, go to an asteroid belt, if there is someone there i look at what theyre mining..then mine something else..never touch someone elses asteroids, thats just wrong..if theres noone there then i mine whatever i want thats there. So, how is that pvp??..please use your twisted perverted logic to excuse your version of mining towards what i do
A'lan Wolf
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2012-05-16 02:25:33 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
No, technically mining is not in any form or shape PvP.



  • Warp to asteroid collection
  • Target asteroids that someone else is mining
  • Abort cycles before completion, extracting ore before the other miner
  • Pop rocks before other miner completes a cycle


Is that not PvP? My actions have an adverse impact on the other player's in-game state. There is also the option of logging in immediately after downtime and clearing out all the belts. This is PvP, even if time shifted by up to 23 hours. This is PvP.



I understand where you go with this, but it is stretching the meaning to far. You could also argue, that just logging into an MMO game, you are entering PvP. You compete with limited server capacity. You compete for latency.... Bla bla bla. You have to draw the line somewhere.



o7


Aaahh, but what you have to realise is..some people will make any excuse to justify griefing or ganking behaviour, and if claiming ridiculously that everything up to and including logging into a game is pvp..then that makes them seem just like everyone else and that theyre justified in what they do
knulla
Doomheim
#113 - 2012-05-16 02:37:31 UTC  |  Edited by: knulla
I have wanted them to remove local since before wormholes. No delay nothing but the complete removal of local unless a person chat would be good enough. In ALL of eve. CSM's need to push this, it would benefit everyone in eve, every single player no matter what they do more so than keeping something else in place.

It would also add to the sense of traveling vast cool mysterious space than make you feel like you are in manhattan. That feeling is gone from WoW since vanilla and that same feeling is gone from EVE once a certain amount of players started playing, as in too many. But remove local and that will be restored and both carebears and pirates will rejoice!

 [u]Malice Redeemer[/u] - "Post if you are unsubing over the new inventory"  Posted: 2012.05.23 01:39

    lol
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#114 - 2012-05-16 02:41:13 UTC
Mining is PvP because you are competing for limited resources. It just so happens that we have not yet maxed out the possible number of miners.

Even ice could in theory deplete... you would just need so many miners that I think the system would crash.
SuperKawaiiDesuYo
#115 - 2012-05-16 03:54:52 UTC
liaxolox wrote:
SuperKawaiiDesuYo wrote:

really if you want to gank vs players, just make an alt. it starts with no negative security status so the people who check local a lot won't have you marked as a negative status player. (most of us slightly less autistic miners check local/mark -sec status with standings to keep track of easier) you even have two extra slots on your account. plus, did you know? you can delete them and make new ones! just gank until -5.0 and there you go!


Recycling alts to avoid negative sec status will get you banned.

orly? it's not that i don't believe you, but i'm curious where you heard this.
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#116 - 2012-05-16 14:14:10 UTC
SuperKawaiiDesuYo wrote:
liaxolox wrote:


Recycling alts to avoid negative sec status will get you banned.

orly? it's not that i don't believe you, but i'm curious where you heard this.



Indeed. We all know this to be true, but you do have an interesting point.

I absolutely cannot find anything regarding this in print at all. Not here under the Suspension & Ban Policy: http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/banning.asp

And apparently this was being looked into in 2009 then fizzled: http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1228021&page=1

Mayhaps this entire area needs to be looked at by CCP (as if they have nothing else on the burner).

Of all areas really, especially with the curent playstyles that are all the rage with the young ones Roll, these exploits need to be LISTED and CLARIFIED.

Some sort of forgotten and lost DevBlog is insufficient.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2012-05-16 16:03:11 UTC
I support this for totally different reasons. First off though, this would have no effect on botters, botters do not pay attention to local. Ever kill a botter and then watch his pod warp back and forth between station and astroid belt? I support this as a BUFF to nul sec and low sec. This would add magnitutides of fun and depth to pvp engagements. One will actually have to scout if they want to know enemy numbers, not just count reds in local. Nul-sec people have gotten far to lazy and reliant on local. Get rid of it!!!
Unit757
North Point
#118 - 2012-05-16 16:19:58 UTC
A'lan Wolf wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
No, technically mining is not in any form or shape PvP.



  • Warp to asteroid collection
  • Target asteroids that someone else is mining
  • Abort cycles before completion, extracting ore before the other miner
  • Pop rocks before other miner completes a cycle


Is that not PvP? My actions have an adverse impact on the other player's in-game state. There is also the option of logging in immediately after downtime and clearing out all the belts. This is PvP, even if time shifted by up to 23 hours. This is PvP.



I understand where you go with this, but it is stretching the meaning to far. You could also argue, that just logging into an MMO game, you are entering PvP. You compete with limited server capacity. You compete for latency.... Bla bla bla. You have to draw the line somewhere.



o7


Aaahh, but what you have to realise is..some people will make any excuse to justify griefing or ganking behaviour, and if claiming ridiculously that everything up to and including logging into a game is pvp..then that makes them seem just like everyone else and that theyre justified in what they do


It's a sandbox... you don't NEED to justify what you do, because you can do whatever the **** you want, regardless of who bitches.
Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#119 - 2012-05-16 18:29:46 UTC
Haas Tabris wrote:
It's almost a wet dream of mine.



You are a sad, strange, little man, and I bid you farewell. Adieu.