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incursion EHP anchor's
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eien mirai
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-05-14 20:53:52 UTC
would an armor fitted machariel be a viable anchor for incursions? i was playing around on EFT and i had a mach with somewhere around 220k (i believe, so dont quote me) EHP. that seems like it would be perfect for being an anchor. correct me if im wrong please and thank you.

also, why do people prefer to shield tank the mach instead of armor tank?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#2 - 2012-05-15 01:41:41 UTC
Why do you need 200k EHP? Are your Logi pilots that terrible?

People shield tank it because look where damage mods for guns go. Now look where armor tanking mods go. Now which adds to your income, tank or dps?

Back to your first question, an armor mach would be viable in armor fleets. But relatively few people run armor ships in PvE due to ^^^

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-05-15 02:48:44 UTC
If you need an anchor in incursions then youre doing it wrong.

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Lysaeus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-05-15 07:11:11 UTC
If you're running incursions you're doing it wrong.
eien mirai
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-05-15 07:36:02 UTC
im new to the game. i have a (very) long term goal of getting into a machariel. i was reading up on incursions and the only guide i saw said that you should have an anchor go in first then have logistics come in after so idk how its all supposed to work i guess. but thanks for the yes on the mach.

and i see how armor would be better for pvp due to the mid slots for stasis and warp disruption
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#6 - 2012-05-15 08:16:40 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
eien mirai wrote:
im new to the game. i have a (very) long term goal of getting into a machariel. i was reading up on incursions and the only guide i saw said that you should have an anchor go in first then have logistics come in after so idk how its all supposed to work i guess. but thanks for the yes on the mach.

and i see how armor would be better for pvp due to the mid slots for stasis and warp disruption


Eh, not really. Armor is popular in several large fleet doctrines (including most capital doctrines) for a host of different reasons, and there are prominent shield fleet doctrines as well. But for midsize gangs, the awesomeness of the Scimitar over the Oneiros (been away since shortly after the buff, dunno if that's changed) means that shield is the name of the game there. In small, non-logisticed gangs, mixed fleets with each ship playing to it's own strengths usually end up happening. For solo, it again depends on the ship.

Once you get past frigates, your Mid/Low slots can accommodate more than one purpose.

As for your goal, what purpose do you want to put the Machariel to?
The PvP Machariel is an expensive and limited purpose boat (it's basically an AMAZING Nano-Hurricane or a Bump ship [watch PL bumping Titans with them])
The PvE Machariel is very effective in almost all areas, only beaten by the Nightmare in Sansha/BR missions and Anoms, and the Vindicator in Serpentis Anoms. In VG Incursion fleets, it's of very similar usefulness to the Nightmare and Vindicator (Vindi is specialized).

I would suggest considering what activities you enjoy/want to pursue then find the ship(s) that help you pursue those activities, rather than focusing on the ships first.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#7 - 2012-05-15 08:23:51 UTC
As for the anchor, you basically pick something with a bit EHP that catches the first agro and gives the logis the time to set up(also you check if the logis are on grid and not afk before you go in, at least in random fleets). Something like 100k on a BS is generally suitable, speaking from my experience as doing anchor or logi. In bling fleets it isn't this important since basically any BS got this and you can anchor with basically everything(even Logis, however the jamming is a bit annoying this way).

Most people prefer shield over armor for the extra dps, however the difference isn't this big(if you not overtank the hulls). On the other hand the extra utility isn't so important this days as many people bring dedicated webbing ships, but it can be kind of handy in random fleets.

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Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-05-15 11:39:33 UTC
eien mirai wrote:
would an armor fitted machariel be a viable anchor for incursions? i was playing around on EFT and i had a mach with somewhere around 220k (i believe, so dont quote me) EHP. that seems like it would be perfect for being an anchor. correct me if im wrong please and thank you.

also, why do people prefer to shield tank the mach instead of armor tank?


The only site that you really need a anchor is the HQ site's, Not to sure what to use in Armor, But in shield fleet's people their use a Rattlesnake or a Scorp Navy

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
xVx dreadnaught
modro
The Initiative.
#9 - 2012-05-15 15:07:46 UTC
For Assaults armor fleets tend to go with whoever has the most EHP. It doesn't really matter which it is most of the time.

Usually Bhaalgorn, Navy Apoc/Geddon, Machariel will do the trick. Often one of the squad leaders so they can get a start on tagging the targets.

The only site I think that it becomes an issue is NCN's I prefer the BS gates use a non cap hungry ship as anchor, because Outuni Mesen are a drag... They hit cap for about 2400 each per cycle. There can be 3 of these spawn in the BS pockets. So a Capacitor using ship is useless after 2-3 cycles. Outuni are a reason I don't like shield tanks for assaults and up. If you aren't being supplied cap from your logi's it will turn off invuln fields. I was in a fleet once that lost 3 ships in a pocket because either the guys forgot to broadcast for cap as well as shield or the logi's just weren't supplying it.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-05-15 15:12:23 UTC
anchors are also a very easy way to insure all ships are moving and keeping up their transversal as it's very easy to forget what you are doing and wind up sitting still. It also insures all ships stay together and don't go wandering off out of rep range.
xVx dreadnaught
modro
The Initiative.
#11 - 2012-05-15 16:02:14 UTC
PS, Armor machs are very useful for incursions. Especially with those 5 utility mid slots.

Your 200K + EHP is a a little excessive. As long as you have 100k + and all resists above 70% you should be golden for most Vanguard fleets (since they mostly have boosters)

I'd then say the same tank can go for Assaults as well, if you are anchor then you'd likely take off one damage mod for a second plate. But other than that it should do fine.
Flakey Foont
#12 - 2012-05-15 16:28:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Flakey Foont
To the OP: May I recommend Hurricane>Maelstrom>Mach. While flying the Mael, get your shield and AC skills way up. It makes no sense to jump into a billion dollar hull without T2 skills.

Don't rush into incursions or L4s as they will be no fun with sub-par skills.

And yes, some folks use armor Machs in Incursions, but most use shields.
xVx dreadnaught
modro
The Initiative.
#13 - 2012-05-15 16:42:56 UTC
Flakey Foont wrote:
To the OP: May I recommend Hurricane>Maelstrom>Mach. While flying the Mael, get your shield and AC skills way up. It makes no sense to jump into a billion dollar hull without T2 skills.

Don't rush into incursions or L4s as they will be no fun with sub-par skills.

And yes, some folks use armor Machs in Incursions, but most use shields.


I'd agree on holding off till you get the appropriate skills up. Machariel is only actually any use once you have T2 large projectiles... Also, an Armor loki with 3 webs can be very useful for incursions. Slowing down the target ships so that your fleet can get nice big hits is a force multiplying effect. Tracking computers/enhancers only benefit the pilot, webs help everyone.
eien mirai
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-05-15 17:49:51 UTC
i understand that its going to be more than a while to get into any faction ship effectively. i just want to make sure i pick the right ship so that i can cater my skills towards it. i like missions (i do lvl 4s with a friend) i love solo pvp as well. and i like to armor tank. so if you can find me a better ship than the machariel to eventually use, then please share.

the things i really love about it:
lots of low slot
projectile bonus's (no cap use on projectiles makes them my favorite weapon)
amazing speed for a battleship
because its a faction ship its base stats are very high
fitting on it is very easy


and last but not least, the look is gorgeous
Just Alter
Futures Abstractions
#15 - 2012-05-15 21:14:15 UTC
eien mirai wrote:
i understand that its going to be more than a while to get into any faction ship effectively. i just want to make sure i pick the right ship so that i can cater my skills towards it. i like missions (i do lvl 4s with a friend) i love solo pvp as well. and i like to armor tank. so if you can find me a better ship than the machariel to eventually use, then please share.

the things i really love about it:
lots of low slot
projectile bonus's (no cap use on projectiles makes them my favorite weapon)
amazing speed for a battleship
because its a faction ship its base stats are very high
fitting on it is very easy


and last but not least, the look is gorgeous


For being a new player you seem to have a good understanding of the game.

In my mind the mach is the best bs in the game, (that has much to do with how op autocannons are) so any plan geared toward getting it is good, until they nerf it...
xVx dreadnaught
modro
The Initiative.
#16 - 2012-05-15 22:39:29 UTC
Just Alter wrote:

For being a new player you seem to have a good understanding of the game.

In my mind the mach is the best bs in the game, (that has much to do with how op autocannons are) so any plan geared toward getting it is good, until they nerf it...


Yup, ride it till it breaks is what I say.

But personally I love lasers. I think pulse are slightly OP
Argaral
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-05-16 03:49:22 UTC
You have your head screwed on very well OP.

In saying that, I run HQ fleets which have the highest incoming damage in a shield fleet. My Rattlesnake sits at 80% resists all round and only 125k EHP. I haven't had trouble once. 200 does sound excessive so maybe strip some of it out and gear towards your gank.You'll do fine, don't forget to read up the base strats as an anchor since knowing where to point your ship while hitting F1 is always one less thing for the FC to worry about.

Regards,

Arg
eien mirai
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-05-16 05:28:30 UTC
okay so a bit off topic. how do you guys like the machariel for solo pvp? i love solo pvp personally and i love armor tanks so any insight would be good
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-05-16 06:48:07 UTC
Mach is prolly best BS for (solo) PvP. The problem is you'll be a magnet for enemies everywhere. As such, you'll need a lot of pvp experience and intel to not loose your ships everytime you undock it. Moreover, pirate BS don't come into their own until you start equipping faction/deadspace items to them, which drives the price up even more.

TL,DR: Mach PvP is very good but you need to be skilled, experienced and rich to pull it of.
eien mirai
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-05-16 07:33:12 UTC
yes expect the heat cause your a good trophy kill. haha