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Question/s to null and low sec players.
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Saia Tae Arragosa
Doomheim
#321 - 2012-05-15 20:08:03 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
This is why I keep bringing up 'net profit' instead of gross profit, because after reducing rent/time spent doing required non-PvE activities, the gap between high and null income is much different and this is why most people don't go for 0.0 life.


You keep hammering on the income, net profit etc.

Why don't you just admit that 0.0 is just not everybody's Dream Thing?

Why should everybody dream to go there? Hi sec and low sec are not *lesser* experiences that should be buried by players ASAP, they are *different* and provide *different* things that 0.0 does not give.

Take away from *different* and people still won't bother coming to 0.0, they will just go find one of 100000 other games with that *different* in them.


I also have been in 0.0 with this and other characters and found it's fun ONLY in very specific circumstances and with a suitable personality. Many don't have the circumstances or the personality for that.
Willing to exile / corner / smack those with different tastes is one of the causes the general playerbase hate 0.0 seccers with a passion, they are seen as little self entitled pri*s.



Again, this is right on the money. There are personality types that CCP must contend with and some are just not going to fit. There is and are players that do not wish to have anything at all to do with 0.0 space. No amount of destroying high sec will ever get them to move to null or low sec. They'd just simply pick up and leave the game.
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#322 - 2012-05-15 20:11:10 UTC
You know a thought just occurred to me. Some people like to live in the city, some people like to live in the country. Country-folk may feel their way of life is better, simpler, and out there people tend to take care of their own and don't rely on the government for much...but I don't see them trying to get city-folk to relocate in droves.

So close...
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#323 - 2012-05-15 20:19:45 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
This is why I keep bringing up 'net profit' instead of gross profit, because after reducing rent/time spent doing required non-PvE activities, the gap between high and null income is much different and this is why most people don't go for 0.0 life.


You keep hammering on the income, net profit etc.

Why don't you just admit that 0.0 is just not everybody's Dream Thing?

Why don't you just admit that your 3 month flirtation of being in an IT Alliance renter corp over two years ago doesn't really give you a universal insight to every null alliance everywhere?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#324 - 2012-05-15 20:22:14 UTC
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
Again, this is right on the money. There are personality types that CCP must contend with and some are just not going to fit. There is and are players that do not wish to have anything at all to do with 0.0 space. No amount of destroying high sec will ever get them to move to null or low sec. They'd just simply pick up and leave the game.

People like you say this, but the only point in the game that EVE ceased to grow was in expansions like Tyrranis and Incursion where highsec carebears were the only ones who benefitted. Player retention in EVE is and always has been from the presentation of emergent, challenging PvP content.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#325 - 2012-05-15 21:30:03 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
This is why I keep bringing up 'net profit' instead of gross profit, because after reducing rent/time spent doing required non-PvE activities, the gap between high and null income is much different and this is why most people don't go for 0.0 life.


You keep hammering on the income, net profit etc.

Why don't you just admit that 0.0 is just not everybody's Dream Thing?

Why don't you just admit that your 3 month flirtation of being in an IT Alliance renter corp over two years ago doesn't really give you a universal insight to every null alliance everywhere?


Why if you want to play space detective you won't do it well? I have stayed in DR for more than 10 months, and only left because my RL job forced me in pure casual mode and I felt ashamed to stay in a corp I could not do anything in useful any more and would just be a leech.

In 10 months one kinda learns how stuff goes.
It's also just 1 of my characters, the others having been in an Initiative Alliance corp.

Finally, DR is not a renter corp AT ALL. It was pure PvP.
We had daily roams and even > 150 men fleets, which is not exactly what a renter corp does nor DR was in IT until shortly before I quit.

I have also been in a renter corp on another 2 characters and THAT was sucky: crappy POS in a crappy system, 5 guys online, zero roams ever, monthly fee to pay to the landlords and being treated like garbage by everyone of their corps including be shot on sight if we'd leave our crappy system to go rat or mine in their good ones.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#326 - 2012-05-16 01:32:52 UTC
Ana Vyr wrote:
Wacktopia wrote:
Move hi-income to LOW SEC. Away from the hi-sec 'safety' and also away from the null-sec 'overlords'. You can't claim sov in low sec, it's easily accessible from hi-sec and most null sec and you can fight to take control of it.

IMO the income/asset balance should be Lowsec > Wormholes > Null sec > Hi sec


So, how can a solo player do industry in lowsec? The losses would not be offset by the gains in that case. Sure if you have a corp of folks who are willing to protect mining ops and so on, it would work. I have yet to meet players who enjoy guarding mining ops. Why must people suffer crappy boring duties to be able to play the game?



What...? Why do you believe that a single player could earn as much as an organised group? Makes no sense.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#327 - 2012-05-16 08:34:26 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
Again, this is right on the money. There are personality types that CCP must contend with and some are just not going to fit. There is and are players that do not wish to have anything at all to do with 0.0 space. No amount of destroying high sec will ever get them to move to null or low sec. They'd just simply pick up and leave the game.

People like you say this, but the only point in the game that EVE ceased to grow was in expansions like Tyrranis and Incursion where highsec carebears were the only ones who benefitted. Player retention in EVE is and always has been from the presentation of emergent, challenging PvP content.



Wrong although the industrial/manufactoring part of Eve isnt my thing, I have bought several ppl into the game who enjoy that side of things more.

If what you say is right why is a large part of the game content nothing to do with PVP. Why are so many ppl in hi sec not taking part in PVP.


PVP is great but you can't force it down ppls throats, they will just leave.

If they do EVE will lose a lot of its richness and culture. If you want a pure PVP experience then there are other games you can play. Counter Strike anyone ?

Tal
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#328 - 2012-05-16 11:01:32 UTC
Ituhata Saken wrote:
You know a thought just occurred to me. Some people like to live in the city, some people like to live in the country. Country-folk may feel their way of life is better, simpler, and out there people tend to take care of their own and don't rely on the government for much...but I don't see them trying to get city-folk to relocate in droves.


This is exactly how I see it too Lol

Hisec is the urban area, main hubs are the big cities hosting the greedy businessmen, the faceless masses and the scum. Lowsec is the mellow countryside where locals greet each other and despise strangers, null the great wilderness where megacorps do what they like, and crazy gurus attract desperate cultists.

Wormholes are the high mountains. Remote, mysterious and dangerous to the scrubs, majestic in their solitude.

.
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#329 - 2012-05-16 12:14:26 UTC
The movie Breakdown comes to mind about lowsec.

So close...
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#330 - 2012-05-16 12:31:57 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
Ana Vyr wrote:
Wacktopia wrote:
Move hi-income to LOW SEC. Away from the hi-sec 'safety' and also away from the null-sec 'overlords'. You can't claim sov in low sec, it's easily accessible from hi-sec and most null sec and you can fight to take control of it.

IMO the income/asset balance should be Lowsec > Wormholes > Null sec > Hi sec


So, how can a solo player do industry in lowsec? The losses would not be offset by the gains in that case. Sure if you have a corp of folks who are willing to protect mining ops and so on, it would work. I have yet to meet players who enjoy guarding mining ops. Why must people suffer crappy boring duties to be able to play the game?



What...? Why do you believe that a single player could earn as much as an organised group? Makes no sense.

Because some groups are massive and at least semi-ok-ish organised ... which needs a nerf.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#331 - 2012-05-16 12:40:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
As many that play this game know, there is an underlying issue that plagues EVE and that is that null and low sec players wish to have more high sec players join them in those areas of the game.


REALLY ????
0.0 Alliances want people from High-sec, I think NOT.

Leave high-sec players in High-sec they are out of the way and a non Issue.
They deal with all the stuff that null players don't want to deal with.

If anything 0.0 needs more space, not a transplant of the masses from high-sec to 0.0.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Duvida
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#332 - 2012-05-16 16:58:40 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:
As many that play this game know, there is an underlying issue that plagues EVE and that is that null and low sec players wish to have more high sec players join them in those areas of the game.


REALLY ????
0.0 Alliances want people from High-sec, I think NOT.

Leave high-sec players in High-sec they are out of the way and a non Issue.
They deal with all the stuff that null players don't want to deal with.

If anything 0.0 needs more space, not a transplant of the masses from high-sec to 0.0.



We apparently have some forum regulars that see high-sec as a training ground from which everyone should be forcibly removed after a certain period of playing. Unfortunately for you, those regulars are bringing up the same drumbeat enough that it may have CCP's ear. As we've seen, and has been noted before, once an *idea* takes firm root in the minds of the decision makers (that don't seem to play all areas of EVE), it seems to get pushed forward with no regard for dissenting information.

I don't feel like it's productive to try to 'force' a playstyle of nullsec on people, it'll only lose subscriptions.
Duvida
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#333 - 2012-05-16 17:05:06 UTC
One 'idea' if you want to try to 'purify' EVE's playerbase and chase all of the nullbears and carebears out of EVE: Remove most crafting. Remove most avenues of creating ingame content via ship-building and such. It'll stop mining to a large degree, for why do it if nobody needs or will buy the minerals?

Restrict the small amount of crafting to a few approved lines and items like WOW does, and I will bet that you'll see the carebear players leave EVE in droves. Then you can have your PVP player paradise free of dissenting voices, right? For a month or three. I don't see an influx of PVP-only players waiting at the subscription button for the news of this type of change, so I don't know how long EVE would stay in business.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#334 - 2012-05-16 19:29:19 UTC
Duvida wrote:
One 'idea' if you want to try to 'purify' EVE's playerbase and chase all of the nullbears and carebears out of EVE: Remove most crafting. Remove most avenues of creating ingame content via ship-building and such. It'll stop mining to a large degree, for why do it if nobody needs or will buy the minerals?

Restrict the small amount of crafting to a few approved lines and items like WOW does, and I will bet that you'll see the carebear players leave EVE in droves. Then you can have your PVP player paradise free of dissenting voices, right? For a month or three. I don't see an influx of PVP-only players waiting at the subscription button for the news of this type of change, so I don't know how long EVE would stay in business.


I think you might be confused, let me clear this for you.

The Evil PVP Sosiopath Jobless Monster Zombies don't want to remove industry, they like it and do it, and see it as a vital part of EVE.

Problem is that the Well-behaved Mature Imaginative Intelligent Fluffybears don't like excitement, and want to remove PVP from EVE.

.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#335 - 2012-05-17 02:04:12 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
The answer is that we should ditch the old-fashioned, outdated, obviously wrong idea that hi-sec is just a starter area.


and agree

(was unable to access the forums or Id have done this earlier - not banned, broken)

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#336 - 2012-05-19 22:46:19 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

People like you say this, but the only point in the game that EVE ceased to grow was in expansions like Tyrranis and Incursion where highsec carebears were the only ones who benefitted. Player retention in EVE is and always has been from the presentation of emergent, challenging PvP content.


"People like you", eh? And just whom would they be, oh great oracle?

Like I said, it's this arrogant, smirking, condescending attitude that's the REAL issue with null sec. Yes, the mechanics need some work but, far and away, it's the nasty attitudes of null sec know it alls that turns off many players who might like to venture out to the wilderness.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#337 - 2012-05-19 22:51:01 UTC
Nick Bete wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

People like you say this, but the only point in the game that EVE ceased to grow was in expansions like Tyrranis and Incursion where highsec carebears were the only ones who benefitted. Player retention in EVE is and always has been from the presentation of emergent, challenging PvP content.


"People like you", eh? And just whom would they be, oh great oracle?

Like I said, it's this arrogant, smirking, condescending attitude that's the REAL issue with null sec. Yes, the mechanics need some work but, far and away, it's the nasty attitudes of null sec know it alls that turns off many players who might like to venture out to the wilderness.

It certainly isn't just the fact that "many players" are deathly afraid of losing even a single ship. No sirree.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Forum Clone 77777
Doomheim
#338 - 2012-05-19 22:55:47 UTC
When I started out I was scared of low/null, the first time I tried to jump into low I got the warning and figured it was dangerous, so I didnt go.

Not long after I got into a GOOD corp/alliance, which then took every newb/noob in frigs and had a roam with some old player FCing, alot of us died horribly (including me) but the alliance had paid for any losses, so its not like anyone cared.

This also made me realise how empty alot of low/0.0 actually is.

Any corp and alliance should get their members out on low/0.0 roams in frigs, if youre lucky youl even get kills. Just get in frigs, almost doesnt even matter how they are fit, mwd, point, guns, go.
adam smash
Department of Gub'nent Welfare
Harkonnen Federation
#339 - 2012-05-19 23:00:12 UTC
Turn all of eve into HS...
70% live in HS so... welcome to the few... who cares about null and low? Most people live in high...

**** with high and have NO game at all...
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#340 - 2012-05-19 23:07:35 UTC
adam smash wrote:
Turn all of eve into HS...
70% live in HS so... welcome to the few... who cares about null and low? Most people live in high...

**** with high and have NO game at all...

And a vast majority of nullsec players have 1 or more alts living permanently in hisec.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat