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Maelstrom for L4´s - Gunnery advice needed
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My Postman
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-05-15 11:09:09 UTC
Dear community, EFT-Warriors and everybody flying a Mael.

For the first let me tell you that i started out as a Gallente Droneboater (Senty Domi all T2) where i perfectly can do my L4´s, usually without any troubles. Now i crosstrained and am able to fly a Mael (Arty and Auto T2), and will give it a try.

Whats confusing me is that there are ppl saying Arty forever (1400 Howitzer), and those are hated by those saying AC forever (mostly 800 mm AC). I can´t make a desicion.

The obvious:
Low:
3x damage mode II
2x Tracking enhancer II

Med:
X-Large Shield booster II (i´m not afk´ing so i´m able to turn booster on and off)
Adaptive Invu II
Shield Boost Ampl II
probably 2x mission spec hardener (if you have other ideas i´m open to that as well)
or is a Cap Booster/800 a must?

High:
Guns

Rigs:
too many options for meWhat?

So, can you give any advice on Arties (the horrid RoF of 1400 Howitzer is scaring me), or Autocannons (the horrid optimal is scaring me).

Thanks for reading.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#2 - 2012-05-15 12:20:39 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Either one will work, but mostly you'll want to use the Maelstrom against Angels. Angels tend to come in close, so 800mm ACs are the better option.

There are some decent fits posted in this thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=106928

One thing comes to mind, however, since you already have Gallente skills trained... skip the Maelstrom and get a Machariel, if you can afford it.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-05-15 12:27:17 UTC
Aye what ^^ he said, depends on the rats. Also active anking lends itself to resists so swap the inv for that second rat specific maybe even a rig or 2

No Worries
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-05-15 14:50:17 UTC
machariel all the way.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Tarchus
#5 - 2012-05-15 15:40:13 UTC
If you did all sort of Level 4 missions, then you'd know that missions take place in a range from 10km to 30km ( few rats orbit at 50km ).
So, do you think your 1400mm Artillery will hit battleships in 10km - 30km while they orbit you? or even cruisers? Do you think you will one shot battleships? How will you deal with the rats close to you? You will need to fit a mwd for that.
You'll hit from 5.000 to 10.000 damage every 14seconds to 19seconds ( depending on skills and implants ).

Autocannons don't rely on optimal. Falloff is your stat to look out for as Minmatar. You will hit very good everything from 15km or 20km to 50km ( depending on skills ). Angels battleships will melt in 8km to 10km ( their orbit ). Don't get closer to 5km, or you will struggle with autocannons.
With autocannons, you'll have a rate of fire 3seconds to 3.7seconds ( depending on skills and implants ). Damage from 700 to 3500.

Don't look at the dps in EFT, cause it's not the same in Eve while in a mission. I had a 1k dps Machariel, but it rarely projected that dps.



Why don't you test the maelstrom with autocannons then with artillery ?
I did this and i said i'll never use the 1400mm in missions. :) And i did this on a machariel. ( i had to struggle really hard with the poor tracking and the high rate of fire of the 1400mm )
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-05-15 15:55:34 UTC
Tarchus wrote:
If you did all sort of Level 4 missions, then you'd know that missions take place in a range from 10km to 30km ( few rats orbit at 50km ).
So, do you think your 1400mm Artillery will hit battleships in 10km - 30km while they orbit you? or even cruisers? Do you think you will one shot battleships? How will you deal with the rats close to you? You will need to fit a mwd for that.
You'll hit from 5.000 to 10.000 damage every 14seconds to 19seconds ( depending on skills and implants ).

Autocannons don't rely on optimal. Falloff is your stat to look out for as Minmatar. You will hit very good everything from 15km or 20km to 50km ( depending on skills ). Angels battleships will melt in 8km to 10km ( their orbit ). Don't get closer to 5km, or you will struggle with autocannons.
With autocannons, you'll have a rate of fire 3seconds to 3.7seconds ( depending on skills and implants ). Damage from 700 to 3500.

Don't look at the dps in EFT, cause it's not the same in Eve while in a mission. I had a 1k dps Machariel, but it rarely projected that dps.



Why don't you test the maelstrom with autocannons then with artillery ?
I did this and i said i'll never use the 1400mm in missions. :) And i did this on a machariel. ( i had to struggle really hard with the poor tracking and the high rate of fire of the 1400mm )



Artillery works with kiting.

I fly arti fleet tempest from time to time in my level 4 missions. I can generally hit rats with 1400 mm arti at 20+ km. If rats closer than 20 km, I just fly the ship further away from the rats.


OP, like FT said, both weapon systems get the job done. But each system is used a little differently. Many people who play EVE never learn how to use arti.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Flakey Foont
#7 - 2012-05-15 16:34:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Flakey Foont
800s in Angel space PVE. Period. A PVE Mael shines with autocannons. Plus, the skills become necessary when you graduate to a Mach. Don't get a Mach until all related skills are T2.


Now in fleet PvP, Artis come into play.
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#8 - 2012-05-15 17:13:29 UTC
I started out with a full rack of 1200s, and recently graduated to T2 1400s once my skills were up. I loved the thunder of the artillery. There are still missions where the distances of big pockets allow me to fly the arty Mael, and with enough distance an artillery shell will still rip through an Angel Dramiel.

But I finally gave in to 800s when I started thinking about moving up to the Mach. Mach has the speed and agility to take advantage of playing in falloff. The Mael... doesn't, really. But as others have said, Angels like to get in close. Expecially when the rats are flying Machs. They'll cruise up to within about 8km and chew on you. If you had arty's, you'd better have killed them before they got there. AC's, you can fly right up and trade broadsides with them. Most of the Level 4 pockets, ACs are murder machines.

But for some of the big maps, like Blockade, or really any map that isn't gated and will allow you to 'Warp to Within X', then you can determine the range, load up arties, and launch shells the size of skyscrapers at the enemy. Which for me is really satisfying.

In reality, I have two Maels: one arty, one AC, and I pull whichever the mission calls for.

Re: your fit.
I run 2 invulns, a large booster (XL is a fitting *****, and DPS is your best shield), and 2 mish hardeners on the AC, and drop one of the hardeners for an AB on the arty.

Rigs: I like omni tanking as much as possible, so I always blow two slots on EM and Therm, Minmatar's two gaps. Third is usually a Field Extender.

Flight of 5 Valkyrie IIs for pesky frigs and webbers that get in close. Or structures, if the mission calls for it. Ammo is expensive, drone damage is free. Which reminds me, Large projectile ammo is expensive as hell when you switch into ACs from arties. Be aware, and turn off your guns if the drones are about to finish the target.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#9 - 2012-05-16 04:32:13 UTC
IMO Autos for the most part but sometimes you need to break out the Artillery, even if there arent many rats that orbits far away, even if there are 3-4 BSs, it will cut into your mission time by alot because you'll have to slowboat into range or do very minimal damage.
Sup B1tches
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-05-16 09:17:08 UTC
Tried 1200's? Less DPS but way better tracking than 1400's and a lot less alpha too so better damage application.

You could also try an alt in a RR BS giving u cap and reps, allowing you to fit 800's and a MWD for some serious fun :)
My Postman
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-05-16 10:49:32 UTC
Thanks for all the valid answers, folks!

I see that AC/Arty heavily depends on the Mission (and that Arties are useless when rats are hugging you close) so i will both give it a try, but i think i will use 1200 for better tracking and higher rof.

Two questions left:

Do you use Cap Booster/ 800 for "emergency" when things start getting wired?
What kind of rigs would you recommend?

Thanks again for your advice!
Unimaginative Guy
Dutch Squad
#12 - 2012-05-16 11:13:55 UTC
Guys he said he has t2 large projectiles. That SCREAMS 800mm with t1 ammo and barrage if needed.

The classic 1200v800mm+AB debate is USUALLY based upon a ship that has good skills and t2 fittings just only t1 guns. Once you graduate to t2 arge ACs the 800mms are better in almost every mission