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With wardec changes coming, can industrial companies survive?
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Selissa Shadoe
#1 - 2012-05-15 13:20:38 UTC

With the upcoming wardec changes that will not allow wardecs to be 'scraped off', it makes me wonder how it will be possible to have an industrial company (mining etc.) when any 1 man corp idiot can wardec you and effectively shut you down for a week.

Yes you and the corpies can jump into frigates and try and do something about it other than be blown up, but it still disrupts what you were WANTING to do. It's disrupting the play styles of a number of people so that other people can get their jollies being a-holes.

I wonder how many subscriptions will lapse because of people being forced to play war when they really don't want to, just so some socially inept morons can have their 'tears'.

I'm curious what other industry types think about this.

"Whether suicide ganking or doing anything in eve, there are exorbitant amounts of people in the game and on the forums that are complete jerks." - Spikeflach
Skorpynekomimi
#2 - 2012-05-15 13:31:25 UTC
Just hire someone to deal with them.

Economic PVP
Nyreanya
Serenity Labs
#3 - 2012-05-15 13:51:54 UTC
Or alliance-up with a bunch of other industry corps. You don't have to work together, cooperate, or anything, just pack as many bodies into that alliance as you can. Makes everyone involved much less likely to get dec'ed.

[/sarcasm]
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#4 - 2012-05-15 13:54:33 UTC
Mine in low sec... or mine in high sec and pretend it is low sec.
Use a non-corp alt to bring your goods to market.
Map out instant-undock bookmarks at your most frequently visited stations during the 24 hour warning period.
Temporarily re-locate to a system you normally don't operate out of.

The only indy corps really at risk are the ones with high sec POSes who don't have the means to defend them properly.
Everything else can continue as normal. Those who do have the means of building and fueling a POS probably have the means to hire some mercs to defend it.


If you let a war deccer disrupt your playstyle, they have already won, even if they don't pop any of your ships or get you to pay the surrender amount.

Think of it this way: If some 1-man corp war decs you for the lulz, that makes further decs against you from other...potentially more lethal... threats more expensive.

If 1 person can shut your corp down, you aren't doing enough to protect yourself. And remember, "Protect yourself" doesn't have to involve training up and hopping into combat ships and duking it out. This is EVE. Guns are not the only tool at your disposal.







In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Tekota
The Freighter Factory
#5 - 2012-05-15 13:58:24 UTC
A year or so ago, when dec shielding was considered an exploit, it was similarly impossible to just "scrape off" war decs. And war decs then cost 2m isk.

Under the new system, war decs will be similarly impossible to scrape off and decs will cost 50m.

Ie. the risk to small indy corps will end up being the same as it was a year ago. Given that small indy corps existed a year ago I think we'll be fine. Yes you'll get stomped on if you're unlucky, or piddle in someone's cheerios, or just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time; but this in reality is no different to the situation a year ago.
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-05-15 14:05:02 UTC
If being war-deced and attacked didn't disrupt your industrial output, that would be pretty silly wouldn't it?

Budget for increased security and pass the bill along to your customers. Just the cost of doing business.
sodney
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2012-05-15 14:06:52 UTC
Nyreanya wrote:
Or alliance-up with a bunch of other industry corps. You don't have to work together, cooperate, or anything, just pack as many bodies into that alliance as you can. Makes everyone involved much less likely to get dec'ed.


if someone dec`s 20 miners, why wouldnt they want to dec 200 miners?
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#8 - 2012-05-15 14:27:56 UTC
Shoot them, repeatedly.

There are few problems in EvE that the application of continuous DPS cannot solve.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-05-15 14:37:01 UTC
Samillian wrote:
Shoot them, repeatedly.

There are few problems in EvE that the application of continuous DPS cannot solve.


If brute force doesn't work you aren't using enough.
Haulie Berry
#10 - 2012-05-15 14:37:39 UTC
Selissa Shadoe wrote:



Yes you and the corpies can jump into frigates and try and do something about it other than be blown up, but it still disrupts what you were WANTING to do. It's disrupting the play styles of a number of people so that other people can get their jollies being a-holes.


Yes, hi, hello. Welcome to "multiplayer" gaming. Sometimes what other people want to do conflicts with what you want to do. Learn to cope.

Quote:

I wonder how many subscriptions will lapse because of people being forced to play war when they really don't want to, just so some socially inept morons can have their 'tears'.

I'm curious what other industry types think about this.


I think you need to HTFU. Recruit allies, train combat pilots, join an alliance, hire mercenaries. War decs are part of the game. It is INTENDED that people are able to interfere with you. That's the entire point of war decs. The ability to trivially scrape them was clearly a loophole that needed fixing. You are essentially complaining that you will no longer be able to exploit a broken mechanic to avoid an intended gameplay feature.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#11 - 2012-05-15 14:41:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinstar Colton
Salo Aldeland wrote:
Samillian wrote:
Shoot them, repeatedly.

There are few problems in EvE that the application of continuous DPS cannot solve.


If brute force doesn't work you aren't using enough.


"If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem begins to look like a nail".



I agree with Haulie, you do need to take these in stride.

Think of it with a positive spin: There are other indy corps out there who are doing the same thing you are. They are competing against you directly on the market and hurting your margins. They are just as likely to get war deced as you are. If they get deced and can't cope, you get a week or so with less competition. More profits for you.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-05-15 15:41:51 UTC
Tekota wrote:
A year or so ago, when dec shielding was considered an exploit, it was similarly impossible to just "scrape off" war decs. And war decs then cost 2m isk.

Under the new system, war decs will be similarly impossible to scrape off and decs will cost 50m.

Ie. the risk to small indy corps will end up being the same as it was a year ago. Given that small indy corps existed a year ago I think we'll be fine. Yes you'll get stomped on if you're unlucky, or piddle in someone's cheerios, or just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time; but this in reality is no different to the situation a year ago.



This.

How soon people forget. For years the situation existed where Dec shielding wasnt an option. Yet somehow these indy corps managed.

Now at least it is better than then, as it costs alot more for the average Dec against a corp.
Marsan
#13 - 2012-05-15 16:24:36 UTC
Also remember that there lot in this for the defending corp.

- You can add merc corps to your war, and it's quite possible a lot of mercs will be looking be added to wars just to get more targets.
- While it's harder for you to flee corp it's harder for them as well.
- The cost has greatly increased to dec even a one man corp. It's quite possible that we'll see the rise of HS alliance for indy corps. Joining these alliances would greatly boost the cost of a war, and a small fee per corp could get enough isk to hire a merc corp(s) to defend the alliance.
- POS bashs in HS become extremely risky with advent of merc corps. An attacker could incap a POS and the defender could hire or find allies to defend the POS for the period when the timer ends.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-05-15 19:38:14 UTC
It's time for industrial corps to rally under an Alliance banner the same way all of the PVP corps do. It'll have it's own PVP member, but Indy corps have the opportunity to make a dent in Eve just like the pewpewers do. The lore tells us that BUSINESS corps made eve what it is; or is that just more boolshite? ;-)
Haulie Berry
#15 - 2012-05-15 19:53:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Katja Faith wrote:
It's time for industrial corps to rally under an Alliance banner the same way all of the PVP corps do. It'll have it's own PVP member, but Indy corps have the opportunity to make a dent in Eve just like the pewpewers do. The lore tells us that BUSINESS corps made eve what it is; or is that just more boolshite? ;-)


I don't really see the draw, tbh. On a per-target basis, it's cheaper to wardec a larger organization. Someone can pay 50 mil to shoot at JUST me, if they want, or they can pay a FEW times more than that to shoot at MANY times more targets. Hell, they can pay the same amount to shoot at over 100 targets. This almost guarantees that a high profile carebear alliance will attract hostile attention. I can trivially work around the occasional war dec (and have never once had to resort to "shedding" a dec) - it would be much more annoying to work around a persistent one.


While there is theoretically strength in numbers, the people who would jump to join such an alliance are the people who are doing so because they're trying to avoid pewpew, while the industrialists who are already comfortable with a bit of internet space violence are already capable of dealing on their own, so you end up with an alliance that basically functions as a shooting gallery for the aggressors.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#16 - 2012-05-15 20:38:09 UTC
Selissa Shadoe wrote:
I'm curious what other industry types think about this.

Instead of 2m / week for the wardec, it now costs a minimum of 50m / week. That alone will stop many random wardecs from 2-member and small corps, which in my experience is the majority of hisec wardecs.

Other than that, I don't really see a change, as we've never used the dec-shield mechanic.

Some industrialists need to buck up and learn how to pilot at least a BC. Wardecs are a part of hisec life.
TravisWB
#17 - 2012-05-16 03:01:33 UTC
Like it or not CCP is going to turn EVE into a shooting gallery.

Micro corps are not actually beneficial to the game, hence the current all out war on hisec.

Combine up with people that you have things in common with, move to another region from time to time and ...I don't know. Look for another game.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#18 - 2012-05-16 04:01:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Ireland VonVicious
One man corp war decs you?

Who cares!

You should have orca with good tank and energy transfer on it with a logi if your mining anyway. (( don't get ganked ))

Just keep a good interceptor around and let your big group of hulks use a big ball of combat drones.

If he is a real bugger bring a heavier tackle with ecm and neuts.

If you have no real option of fighting back as your really tiny and new just use a dead end area and keep an alt scout or cloaked corp member out in front when your one man target logs on.

On a side note: if you skipped mining cruiser to go straight for a barge you did it wrong!
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-05-16 04:30:22 UTC
About two and a half years ago, My industrila corp got wardeced. by a one man corp. We moved system and set up traps, but he didnt show. so we went back to mining. the wardec lapsed, and we figured he was just looking for cheap kills and moved on.

Two days after the dec lapsed, he ganked one of my corpmates hulks. and then another and another. after four he deced us again. we killed his Enyo and several other ships. he backed off, sitting cloaked and running away when we showed fighting ships.

After the second dec, he just followed one of my corp mates through several other corps. ganking hulks.

the wardec system really doesn't mean anything. for the people that use it it will mean pretty much the same thing that it did before.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-05-16 07:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternal Error
With a 50m base cost, if you're under 30 or so members, you're probably going to have to **** someone off for them to come after you. Mind your own business and I doubt you will have problems. I honestly think that this change will result in less wardecs for corps <50 people.
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