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Skill Implants are hurting PVP and NPE
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Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-05-15 12:41:26 UTC
Fun story.

My "I'm not playing for a while" clone has a full rack of +5's

My old PvP Clone use to have +3 Perc/Will and some hardwirings (I'm on a perc will remap)

My current PvP Clone has +4 Perc/Will and some hardwirings (I'm a lil more flush)

Not a huge investment at all. And if I do get to the "so poor it hurts stage" there are these magical things called +2's. No one forces you to go out with the best implants plugged in, thats your choice. Your more than welcome to take the risk of having 2/3/4/5 +5's as you can't bear to loose a drop of SP.

In conclusion. I don't see a problem here.

I lied :o
Francisco Bizzaro
#22 - 2012-05-15 12:41:43 UTC
I don't think implants should be changed for the sake of new players. Preferable would be to educate them about risk-reward compromises and the fact that you can't be 100% optimal for 100% of the things you want to do 100% of the time in this game.

It's no shame to start out with lower-grade stuff. And similarly, rushing to a hulk in 40 days is not the best idea. If they can wrap their heads around that, they'll have a much longer happier time in Eve. And we may not have to read about their problems on the forums as often.

Seems like this may be an example of Malcanis' law at work here, even if not consciously so.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-05-15 12:44:39 UTC
Meh, let's see how the Inferno changes work out, before we go looking for ways to incentivise more people into pvp.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-05-15 12:54:46 UTC
There is already a thread for this with plenty of support in the Assembly Hall.

-1 for not posting with your main.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#25 - 2012-05-15 12:59:23 UTC
Francisco Bizzaro wrote:
I don't think implants should be changed for the sake of new players. Preferable would be to educate them about risk-reward compromises and the fact that you can't be 100% optimal for 100% of the things you want to do 100% of the time in this game.

It's no shame to start out with lower-grade stuff. And similarly, rushing to a hulk in 40 days is not the best idea. If they can wrap their heads around that, they'll have a much longer happier time in Eve. And we may not have to read about their problems on the forums as often.

Seems like this may be an example of Malcanis' law at work here, even if not consciously so.


It's a descriptive law, not a presecriptive one.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lexmana
#26 - 2012-05-15 13:25:52 UTC
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#27 - 2012-05-15 13:31:14 UTC
System works fine. You can't force ppl to do what they don't want to do. This hasn't been an issue in the past, why suddenly such interest in pushing/cajoling peeps into PVP . Running out of targets in low/null sec are we.

Tal
Florio
Miniature Giant Space Hamsters
#28 - 2012-05-15 13:36:16 UTC
The system doesn't work fine. The OP is right. Whether people like it or not, and whether they ought to or not, learning implants stop a sizeable number of players in EVE (judging from forum posts) getting out there and PvPing.

High SP clone costs are another issue, especially for casual players; again, this is just a fact - again, whether it's right or wrong is another matter.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#29 - 2012-05-15 13:50:21 UTC
My point being if they don't want to its not going to happen and why is It an issue now and not for the last 9 years. Just wondering what all the urgency is all of a sudden ?
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#30 - 2012-05-15 13:54:08 UTC
Florio wrote:
The system doesn't work fine. The OP is right. Whether people like it or not, and whether they ought to or not, learning implants stop a sizeable number of players in EVE (judging from forum posts) getting out there and PvPing.

High SP clone costs are another issue, especially for casual players; again, this is just a fact - again, whether it's right or wrong is another matter.


There are many explanations, in the end the real reason is just lack of balls.

.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#31 - 2012-05-15 13:55:57 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
My point being if they don't want to its not going to happen and why is It an issue now and not for the last 9 years. Just wondering what all the urgency is all of a sudden ?


Why is that an issue to you?

.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-05-15 13:59:14 UTC
Game is working fine, lets recap shall we...

1. Harsh universe
2. Decisions, Decisions - fit expensive implants or go to lowsec...
3. You go "Oh look, a pod....."
4. ????
5. And Bob is your cross dressing wierdo uncle, because in fact....it is your fault for inflicting a pod death from 3) that results in 1) Harsh universe and 2) The other guy's decision to use implants to accellerate his skill plan. So, because you wanted to give a facial with a blaster to the other guy in the pod....you did what you wanted and he did what he wanted, he learned an expensive loss so "Adapted" by not going to lowsec or null.

Working as intended, you don't need to change anything.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-05-15 14:03:13 UTC
Roime wrote:
Florio wrote:
The system doesn't work fine. The OP is right. Whether people like it or not, and whether they ought to or not, learning implants stop a sizeable number of players in EVE (judging from forum posts) getting out there and PvPing.

High SP clone costs are another issue, especially for casual players; again, this is just a fact - again, whether it's right or wrong is another matter.


There are many explanations, in the end the real reason is just lack of balls.


No, the real reason is the consequences of their actions -> I want to get some skilling done -> You blow me up -> Yep, learned my lesson to not go to lowsec with expensive implants -> So you got to wait for me to finish my skill plan, but you are welcome to be bored off you ass for your actions to pod me and I am....what is it called..."Risk adversion"....yeah pretty sure its more your fault for teaching me a lesson of EVE so you got to wait bored then it is my fault for fitting something...since you didn't need to pod me but I didn't need to fit expensive implants...but I wanted to anyway, just like you wanted to pod me.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#34 - 2012-05-15 14:15:27 UTC
Roime wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
My point being if they don't want to its not going to happen and why is It an issue now and not for the last 9 years. Just wondering what all the urgency is all of a sudden ?


Why is that an issue to you?



Its called a discussion numty. Judging by your previous post your not used to having them Roll
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-05-15 14:17:48 UTC
Gordon Howard wrote:
One solution I have seen is an implant contract where your choosen skill implants would be covered for a month probably at a higher cost, another solution removing skill implants from the game all together.

...
I like the game difficult, I like that item prices have been rising and veterans have high SP, I like the long term aspects of the game.
...
So please dont flame about dumbing the game down. I would like to see a serious discussion. Thank You.

how do you connect all 3 sentences together?

Removing stuff from the game NEVER adds complexity. It only can make the game easier and dumber.
This happened after learning skills removing. This happened after agent quality removing. This happened after removing drones from Motherships. Game became easier and stupidier in some aspects.

You said only attribute implants are bad but what about ship characteristics implants? They cost money too. They can be lost in PVP. People don't want to loose those implants too.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#36 - 2012-05-15 14:24:03 UTC
Gordon Howard wrote:
Hello, I am an obvious alt here to raise a serious discussion about skill implants in the game, and maybe hopefullysee some DEV input.....(stuff)..... Thank You.


Because when you first played EVE, you never used implants, but now somehow, magically, implants are affecting the way you want others to play this game.




COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#37 - 2012-05-15 14:41:18 UTC
Florio wrote:
The system doesn't work fine. The OP is right. Whether people like it or not, and whether they ought to or not, learning implants stop a sizeable number of players in EVE (judging from forum posts) getting out there and PvPing.

High SP clone costs are another issue, especially for casual players; again, this is just a fact - again, whether it's right or wrong is another matter.


Another one. Not everyone in this game wants to play the way you want them to play, So whether you like it or not, or whether you agree or not, implants are like any other module in this game. There is no need to change anything here, no reason other than to satisfy your own style of play.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-05-15 14:42:05 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:

as previous posters have pointed out "I need more ISK/SP/... before I can do x" is a way of thinking that can only be described as wrong; catering to that mindset means catering to greedy carebears who will never leave high-sec anyways (because no matter how much they have, they will never be "ready").

you want to fly interceptor? Welcome to training frigate to 5. Elsewere good luck to do interceptor role in T1 frigate Cool

I think every FC will be happy to accept your logistics pilot in T1 cruiser too....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-05-15 14:53:55 UTC
For me it is a non issue. I only have implants in because I had some spare ISK lying around and nothing better to spend it on one day. Otherwise I would simply go with no implants at all, which is what I normally do. When I get into my new corp for PVP in nullsec I will run my current implants until I get podded and then I will go without until I eventually get around to it. Frankly the bonus they give me with +4s just isn't all that great anyway.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#40 - 2012-05-15 14:55:00 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
No, the real reason is the consequences of their actions -> I want to get some skilling done -> You blow me up -> Yep, learned my lesson to not go to lowsec with expensive implants -> So you got to wait for me to finish my skill plan, but you are welcome to be bored off you ass for your actions to pod me and I am....what is it called..."Risk adversion"....yeah pretty sure its more your fault for teaching me a lesson of EVE so you got to wait bored then it is my fault for fitting something...since you didn't need to pod me but I didn't need to fit expensive implants...but I wanted to anyway, just like you wanted to pod me.


I don't really understand what you mean by all that, but would it help if I said that I'm also enjoying the benefits of a shitload of modern cybernetics while I pod you? Hell, I couldn't even fit my ships without the aid of hardwires.

Also, lost my last pod 6 months ago. Boo, it's so ******* dangerous outside hisec.

Fear, stops you from living.



.