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Lvl.4 Missions T2 Pulse Laser Question
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Luthor Reiza
The League of Delusional Grandeur
#1 - 2012-05-15 11:19:23 UTC
Hi all, after many months I'm finally nearing a stage where I can use t2 crystals on my guns which I'm hoping will speed up mission running quite a lot. However, after messing around with hypothetical fits on EFT I've succeeded only in confusing myself. Basically I've seen people write that scorch is basically the key thing that you need to unlock for amarr mission running, but with an optimal of 55-65km (depending on what ship I decide to use) and a 15-20km falloff I am struggling to see why everyone treats it as such an amazing ammo for mission running as about half the enemies I encounter in lvl.4's are much closer than 40km. Okay there's conflagaration as well but I'm just getting irritated with myself as I'm pretty certain there's something bleeding obvious that I'm missing here.

Anybody able to enlighten me a bit?
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-05-15 12:55:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzzmong
It's because Scorch outdamages pretty much everything but Multifreq and does so with a +50% range bonus.

If you're using an Apoc with a Scripted TC, or anything else with 2x Scripted TC's, you end up using Imp Navy MF for anything under 40km (for damage and cost per shot) then swapping to Scorch for everything else.

It's all about maximising DPS and being time efficient. Scorch is just out and out more efficient than the other ammo types in 90% of circumstances.

Scorch is, as much as it pains me to say it because I love it so, a tad unbalanced and breaks the range to damage ratio that pretty much all other ammo uses.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#3 - 2012-05-15 12:57:22 UTC
Using Scorch means that the Abaddon and Armageddon become viable Pulse Laser ships for Level 4 missions. They both do more damage than the Apoc. It also means you can start firing at most things as soon as you get in the room.

Where are you running missions?

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Luthor Reiza
The League of Delusional Grandeur
#4 - 2012-05-15 13:10:45 UTC
Running missions with an abaddon in amarr space at the moment. Truth be told I'd never even given any thought to the navy crystals, had always sort of ignored them similar to navy drones What?. Still that's cleared it up a lot. Is conflagaration worth it as dps seems to be ridiculous with it?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#5 - 2012-05-15 13:15:51 UTC
I never use Conflagration - I carry Scorch, Imp Navy Multi, Regular Multi, and Radio. The last two are just in case I happen to break all my Scorch and Imp Navy Multi crystals during the same mission.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-05-15 13:18:21 UTC
Luthor Reiza wrote:
Running missions with an abaddon in amarr space at the moment. Truth be told I'd never even given any thought to the navy crystals, had always sort of ignored them similar to navy drones What?. Still that's cleared it up a lot. Is conflagaration worth it as dps seems to be ridiculous with it?


It's probably not worth it over Imp Navy MF.

It's not a massive increase in DPS and on a cost per shot basis it is somewhat expensive when you consider faction crystals get around 5000 shots but the T2 crystals get 1000.
Luthor Reiza
The League of Delusional Grandeur
#7 - 2012-05-15 13:23:00 UTC
Ok I get it now, Thanks for the help.
Cerabix
Tidal Industries
#8 - 2012-05-15 17:05:37 UTC
If you're using lasers in an abaddon I would also fit a tracking computer to load scripts into. With scorch I can start hitting out to where I can track at 90+ km with no tangential on ships. I also keep standard ammo with me for the ships that scorch can't track and I can't hit with multifrequency out to. You're not going to be sniping worlds collide but most of the time I can pick off all the small ships before they get too close to track with scorch and then just sit back and blast away at bs hulls. Nothing will orbit you futher then 70 kms in amarr space
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-05-15 18:43:42 UTC
Buzzmong wrote:

It's not a massive increase in DPS and on a cost per shot basis it is somewhat expensive when you consider faction crystals get around 5000 shots but the T2 crystals get 1000.


Navy crystals last exact 4000 shots. T2 crystals last on average 1000 shots.
Beef Knuckleback
Pawnstars INC
#10 - 2012-05-15 19:06:08 UTC
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Navy crystals last exact 4000 shots. T2 crystals last on average 1000 shots.


In my opinion this makes Navy crystals the most cost-effective faction ammo in the game, and a very worthwhile use of LP.

I've recently unlocked T2 small lasers (on the long road to the big stuff), and have taken to packing two sets of Scorch, one set of INMF, and a "backup" set of Standard and regular MF. I also have a set of Conflagration crystals and I'll use them until they burn out, but have no plans to replace them - INMF lasts longer, does similar damage at the same range, and uses less capacitor.

Conflagration does very nice damage and I've used it a few times to melt rats that have crawled up my backside - though in strict cost-efficiency terms you're better off using INMF for close range and Scorch for long, while keeping a backup set of vanilla crystals just in case your shiny burns out mid-fight.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-05-15 21:43:47 UTC
Honestly I can't bring myself to use Scorch over Imp Navy MF in Tachyons. The availability of an additional tier of long rang weapons kind of throws everything off with lasers.
Cerabix
Tidal Industries
#12 - 2012-05-15 23:02:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Cerabix
Mavnas wrote:
Honestly I can't bring myself to use Scorch over Imp Navy MF in Tachyons. The availability of an additional tier of long rang weapons kind of throws everything off with lasers.


Much much tighter fitting tachs compared to pulse and the tracking is awful. Some missions have elite cruisers that float 33 kms with a fairly fast tangential and you won't be able to swat them down. Tachs are fine if your drone skills are high enough to catch the small fries but then again just fit pulse and load tracking speed.

EDIT: For those of you who don't want to look it up on EFT you can't actually fit 8 tachs to an abaddon if thats what you're using but assuming you could fit 8 guns of tach II's loaded with INMF or 8 of Mega Pulse II's with Scorch you get the following numbers. (included 3 heatsinks when calculating dps)

Pulse

Fitting
318 CPU
19800 PG

Volley 3165.5 / DPS 729.71
Tracking .03164 Rad/s
OptR 45000 m
FOff 10,000 M

Tachs

Fitting
468 CPU
29703 PG (13% over with guns fitting only to abaddon)

Volley 5956.89/865.65
Tracking .0174 Rad/s
OptR 33000 m
FOff 25000 m

Note here though that the Nightmare fits Tachs and a tank with room to spare. Pure Amarr ships will never see them used in mission running though due to not being able to fit enough of them with tank and do competitive dps.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-05-15 23:30:49 UTC
Cerabix wrote:
Note here though that the Nightmare fits Tachs and a tank with room to spare. Pure Amarr ships will never see them used in mission running though due to not being able to fit enough of them with tank and do competitive dps.


Pssst. Tach Paladin (with faction rep). Jus' saying :P
Arcosian
Arcosian Heavy Industries Corp Holding
#14 - 2012-05-15 23:56:15 UTC
Buzzmong wrote:
Cerabix wrote:
Note here though that the Nightmare fits Tachs and a tank with room to spare. Pure Amarr ships will never see them used in mission running though due to not being able to fit enough of them with tank and do competitive dps.


Pssst. Tach Paladin (with faction rep). Jus' saying :P

Have to agree with the above poster. I have flown a Tachy paladin to great success. And at ~1000DPS it makes L4s almost too easy. Insta-pop anything BC or lower and 2-3 volley most BS all using INMF Twisted
Abyssum Invocat
Yet Another Tax Haven
#15 - 2012-05-15 23:56:25 UTC
Scorch range also happens to be orbit range for a reasonable amount of Gurista and Blood Raider rats which would otherwise take eons to kill with radio.
Cerabix
Tidal Industries
#16 - 2012-05-16 01:39:43 UTC
Quote:
Have to agree with the above poster. I have flown a Tachy paladin to great success. And at ~1000DPS it makes L4s almost too easy. Insta-pop anything BC or lower and 2-3 volley most BS all using INMF


My pulse fit does 1100 dps with inmf and 900 with scorch. The difference is the tracking speed. I can hit frigs orbiting me at 11kms most of the time with mf loaded so most of the time I don't have to **** with drones which I find is faster. The fit I have currently uses meta 14 rep module and no matter how I work it I can't get tachs to fit correctly and keep the same tank or dps for that matter. I guess I was being a bit too general with what I said above though. I would like to see the paladin fit if you guys have the module list.
HelloKitty StrikesBack
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-05-16 02:43:56 UTC  |  Edited by: HelloKitty StrikesBack
Cerabix wrote:
Quote:
Have to agree with the above poster. I have flown a Tachy paladin to great success. And at ~1000DPS it makes L4s almost too easy. Insta-pop anything BC or lower and 2-3 volley most BS all using INMF


My pulse fit does 1100 dps with inmf and 900 with scorch. The difference is the tracking speed. I can hit frigs orbiting me at 11kms most of the time with mf loaded so most of the time I don't have to **** with drones which I find is faster. The fit I have currently uses meta 14 rep module and no matter how I work it I can't get tachs to fit correctly and keep the same tank or dps for that matter. I guess I was being a bit too general with what I said above though. I would like to see the paladin fit if you guys have the module list.


You need either a 4% PG imp or a PG rig (Large Ancillary Current Router I) to get it working.
Cap stable with Engergy Management 5% imp (without tractors and salvager). Use one t2 ccc to get it complete stable
~ 1170dps with imps and drones (INMF), 1085 (INGamma) with nearly the same range and better falloff then scorch.
~ 700dps tank against sansha
Cost should be 1,75b with fitting and hull (you can go cheaper on tank if you do lvl4). You can also replace web with a tracking computer if you dont have to shoot frigs.

[Paladin, PvE Sniper]

Centus C-Type Armor EM Hardener
Centus C-Type Armor EM Hardener
Centus C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Centus A-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
True Sansha Stasis Webifier

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

edit:
but my fav fit for close range is still this.
destroys everything if they try to get close

[Paladin, PvE]

Centus C-Type Armor EM Hardener
Centus C-Type Armor EM Hardener
Centus C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Centus A-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
True Sansha Stasis Webifier

Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Energy Burst Aerator II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#18 - 2012-05-16 04:06:36 UTC
Pulses are amazing for missions because it gives you just the right amount of range but very good tracking (compared to beams) and very good damage for that range.

Nightmares with Tachyons + sick tracking bonus just craps all over every other Lazor mission boat though.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-05-17 21:25:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzzmong
HelloKitty StrikesBack wrote:
You need either a 4% PG imp or a PG rig (Large Ancillary Current Router I) to get it working.


Pffft.

No implants or fitting mods required and an effective el-cheapo fit:

4x Tach II's
1x Salv II
2x Tractor Beam I's

1x Tracking Comp II (range scripts + tracking scripts)
3x Cap Charger II

1x Imp Navy OR Dark Blood LAR (they're the same apart from price. DB are often cheaper oddly enough)
3x Active Hardeners II's
3x Heatsink II's.

Rigs:
2x CCC's = approx 9 mins cap running everything full tilt with my skills and INMF, stable if you drop down a crystal or two.

Drones: 5x Hornets or Hobs for pesky NPC interceptors.

That will just fit with something silly like 0.5 PG spare.

If you want to drop more money on it then upgrading the heatsinks gives you a decent damage boost, and If you really want more tank (which you won't for a level 4) and decide to upgrade the repper to a deadspace one then yes, you'll need to drop in an implant or current router rig.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#20 - 2012-05-17 22:18:36 UTC
for pretty much anything but nightmare/paladin, use megapulse or megabeams.

meta 4 rep for like 100k isk and omnitank because I cba to switch. if you know everything is going to be up close sure pulse is a bit nicer, but 43+41 with tachs and multifrequency. Eft shows 5m28s on the cap but tbh I haven't run out yet, just need to pulse the rep a bit on really long missions. and with standard can hit pretty well at 100km

[Paladin, Tachys]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II
Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter