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Crime & Punishment

 
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Piracy, let's face it, it's almost dead...
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Ravnik
Infinate Horizon
#41 - 2012-05-14 10:49:56 UTC
Devore Sekk wrote:
Piracy would be in a much better state if you could actually collect ransoms, which no one pays anymore due to all the pirates who don't honor them. Direct your anger at your brethren, not CCP or the carebears.


Maybe there should be a Ransom module which you activate on victim, pops a screen up on their screen with the ransom demand, if they accept, it then disables the lock and they are free to leave! Then pirates who still wish to go down the Ransom road are free to do so. Anyone else can just blow you up Evil

The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly..........
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2012-05-14 11:26:44 UTC
Piracy is fine.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#43 - 2012-05-14 11:32:26 UTC
Shocked A pirate on the boards crying?
Lauren Sheaperd
Know-Nothings
Negative Feedback
#44 - 2012-05-14 15:10:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lauren Sheaperd
StonerPhReaK wrote:
Lauren Sheaperd wrote:
StonerPhReaK wrote:
Also note that last time a group of pirates rolled up on an incursion fleet. It didnt go to well for the pirates. Not sayin it cannot happen, But incursion fleets are as close to a doctrine as some of these guys will ever see. So even if they do move them to lowsec, most of your kind couldnt/wouldnt engage.


Hang on, where the hell does this come from? Why does the idea of carebears that prove a challenge mean that most will have to avoid the engagment?


It comes from Boston. Of Course.

*edit. i did not say all i said most. Reading Comprehension. Some will indeed engage.

Point is. No matter where incursions reside, Piracy will be a part of eve in some form or another. Assuming moving incursions/lvl 4's/ whatever else one thinks would bring piracy back to lowsec and bring all the nub haulers and juicy targets back is just silly. Like my comment, right?


I said most as well. In future, I suggest you avoid mentioning reading comprehension (hint; you're awful at it).

Your assumption here is that what all pirates want is to sit there making easy kills all day - and sure, plenty of people do - but the idea that most of us won’t even bother taking on larger gangs is as bad as your reading comprehension. There's a difference between a career pirate and someone simply trying to fill up their killboard.

You know what moving level four missions and incursions would do? Give fiscal incentive to coming to low-sec that is sorely needed, which should bring more organized groups of carebears - such as the *gasp!* incursion fleet players. What I hope such changes will do is to have low-sec more populated - that doesn't have to mean a load of easy kills.

Why do I even have a signature these days?
Shuckstar
Blue Dreams Plus
#45 - 2012-05-14 16:15:13 UTC
Yaaar's Revenge wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
Supported simply because Incursions should be moved out of hisec. It is dumb that they happen in hisec.


Oh god yes! That would help the economy from being so inflated because of the carebears ANNNNNND it would mean we'd get more shiny killmails and tears <3


Moving incursions to low sec only may get you a bit more kills but in my opinion 90% plus will stay in high sec and run lvl4s, lv4's and there payouts will keep "carebears" in High sec.


CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"

Dare Knight
Bandwagoners
#46 - 2012-05-14 16:55:29 UTC
Lauren Sheaperd wrote:
You know what moving level four missions and incursions would do? Give fiscal incentive to coming to low-sec that is sorely needed, which should bring more organized groups of carebears - such as the *gasp!* incursion fleet players. What I hope such changes will do is to have low-sec more populated - that doesn't have to mean a load of easy kills.


There are other ways about that which doesn't involve moving everything to lowsec, though. You can create more fiscal incentive by *not* nerfing highsec activities but simply boosting lowsec agent payouts, possibly making incursions in lowsec more profitable, in a near silly overinflated way. Highsecers can still do their *little* incusions and low paying lvl4's in highsec, lowsec can be a great source of income, and nullers can still have what nullers have.

Everybody wins. I still don't think it'll improve things, but it's better than "zomg move everything out of highsec so people will come to lowsec", because people don't come to lowsec for more reasons than just fiscal advangates.

_It's very simple, really. If you see Tengus on scan, they are ratting. If you see a shitload of Tengus, the Russians are blobbing. If you see Proteuses on scan, they will be on top of you in about a second. If you see a shitload of Proteuses, the big boys are having a goodfight. _
Lauren Sheaperd
Know-Nothings
Negative Feedback
#47 - 2012-05-14 18:58:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lauren Sheaperd
Dare Knight wrote:
Lauren Sheaperd wrote:
You know what moving level four missions and incursions would do? Give fiscal incentive to coming to low-sec that is sorely needed, which should bring more organized groups of carebears - such as the *gasp!* incursion fleet players. What I hope such changes will do is to have low-sec more populated - that doesn't have to mean a load of easy kills.


There are other ways about that which doesn't involve moving everything to lowsec, though. You can create more fiscal incentive by *not* nerfing highsec activities but simply boosting lowsec agent payouts, possibly making incursions in lowsec more profitable, in a near silly overinflated way. Highsecers can still do their *little* incusions and low paying lvl4's in highsec, lowsec can be a great source of income, and nullers can still have what nullers have.

Everybody wins. I still don't think it'll improve things, but it's better than "zomg move everything out of highsec so people will come to lowsec", because people don't come to lowsec for more reasons than just fiscal advangates.


I really don't think the difference will be enough - if balanced to correlate with other forms of PvE - without making high-sec less profitable. Whether that is reducing income from high-sec PvE significantly and increasing low-sec PvE, or just moving level fours and incursions to low-sec probably doesn't matter - but I believe they are the only two choices for any serious improvement to low-sec. I just think moving them out of high-sec gives more incentive to explore the low-sec option of making isk. *Shrug*, none of these changes are really worth implementing on their own and I'm not sure discussion without the "bigger picture" of proposed changes is valuable.

Though it's probably worth stating my hope is not to have change will benefit the piratical segment of the Eve community as it is to boost the low-sec content in its entirety. Right now low-sec is really lack luster, where the only attraction is the prevalence of small-gang PvP that is usually the minority elsewhere.

EDIT:

Dare Knight wrote:
Everybody wins. I still don't think it'll improve things, but it's better than "zomg move everything out of highsec so people will come to lowsec", because people don't come to lowsec for more reasons than just fiscal advangates.


The suggestion isn't to move everything out of high-sec space. Rather, make it so the relative safety of high-sec comes at a reasonable price when compared to low-sec. Right now you can still make a small fortune in high-sec (even if it's not exactly the most time-efficient method) that leaves players - I'm thinking particularly about missioners - who live an almost completely isolated play-style and no incentive to change that.

Why do I even have a signature these days?
jimmyjam
Fire Mandrill
#48 - 2012-05-14 20:11:46 UTC
Mr Morita wrote:
Piracy is not dead. For the most part, piracy has simply relocated. It's simply more efficient to go to null to shoot things and not incur a sec status penalty than it is for people to roam through low sec and kill everything in sight.

However, I also think that going flashyred is also easier to do continuously now due to the advent of Black Frog.

And ganking is definitely not dead.

This piracy is not dead it,s just in a different location.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-05-14 20:36:24 UTC
Lauren Sheaperd wrote:
Dare Knight wrote:
Everybody wins. I still don't think it'll improve things, but it's better than "zomg move everything out of highsec so people will come to lowsec", because people don't come to lowsec for more reasons than just fiscal advangates.


The suggestion isn't to move everything out of high-sec space. Rather, make it so the relative safety of high-sec comes at a reasonable price when compared to low-sec. Right now you can still make a small fortune in high-sec (even if it's not exactly the most time-efficient method) that leaves players - I'm thinking particularly about missioners - who live an almost completely isolated play-style and no incentive to change that.

You are so naive.

Highsec is relative safe, because you are afraid to lose a significant chunk of your wallet. What you do not understand, is that the target is still shootable and he will lose something of value (where as in other MMO's the guards will just one shot you in the protected zones if its just not possible to even attack someone), but for that cost the other guy gets the smallest chunk of coin possible in game. There is nothing wrong with that, is casual and should some dude like yourself decide to just utterly destroy someone else...highsec is his last escape to recoup his losses unless you really like seeing CCP lose a paying customer because you have no bounds (remember, EVE is harsh but the player at the other end...may not like to play it after basicly being reset to zero...it ******* sucks starting all over from scratch)
Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-05-15 02:07:01 UTC
I was a pirate back in 2003-2005, based out of Bosena in Molden Heath.

You should see the scrubs that "pirate" there now. Complete fecking joke compared to the golden days of yore! Not only did it have people coming in the choke it also had an Angel site in (Remember NPC's use to drop logs that told people where to go) A proper pirates homeland.

I lied :o
Lauren Sheaperd
Know-Nothings
Negative Feedback
#51 - 2012-05-15 03:17:28 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Lauren Sheaperd wrote:
Dare Knight wrote:
Everybody wins. I still don't think it'll improve things, but it's better than "zomg move everything out of highsec so people will come to lowsec", because people don't come to lowsec for more reasons than just fiscal advangates.


The suggestion isn't to move everything out of high-sec space. Rather, make it so the relative safety of high-sec comes at a reasonable price when compared to low-sec. Right now you can still make a small fortune in high-sec (even if it's not exactly the most time-efficient method) that leaves players - I'm thinking particularly about missioners - who live an almost completely isolated play-style and no incentive to change that.

You are so naive.

Highsec is relative safe, because you are afraid to lose a significant chunk of your wallet. What you do not understand, is that the target is still shootable and he will lose something of value (where as in other MMO's the guards will just one shot you in the protected zones if its just not possible to even attack someone), but for that cost the other guy gets the smallest chunk of coin possible in game. There is nothing wrong with that, is casual and should some dude like yourself decide to just utterly destroy someone else...highsec is his last escape to recoup his losses unless you really like seeing CCP lose a paying customer because you have no bounds (remember, EVE is harsh but the player at the other end...may not like to play it after basicly being reset to zero...it ******* sucks starting all over from scratch)

NO UR NAIVE!

*Ahem*

And I'm saying that low-sec should be making significantly more isk that in high-sec, not no isk in high-sec. That would indeed be stupid, as there needs to be a relatively speaking safe, introductory area that allows for trade and to ease players into the harsh realities of the game. The point is, when compared to low-sec, a single person can't make as much isk as a single person in high-sec without alts. There's no need for high-sec to be as valuable as is.

Also. Anyone who has to "start from scratch" when losing a ship, really isn't someone who's capable of running level fours yet. I really doubt anyone who would play Eve over the long term as is would leave Eve because now they had to do level three missions instead of level fours if they wanted to stay all safe and cuddly in high-sec.

Now, as you're hiding behind an alt I can't check - but what ridiculously expensive ship that you couldn't afford to lose did you take to low-sec that makes you whine about this "reset to zero" toss?


Why do I even have a signature these days?
Signal11th
#52 - 2012-05-15 07:49:02 UTC
Zag'mar Jurkar wrote:
Since when gate camping is considered "Piracy" ?

And people that stays in hi-sec will stay in hi-sec no matter how low their income becomes reduced, because they do not want to deal with "the dangerous "law-less" zones" that are lo and null



Please ...you didn't include null in the dangerous part, Christ, taking my child to kindergarden is more danegrous than null sec.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#53 - 2012-05-15 08:07:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Lock out
Is anybody from the crowd crying how lowsec should get a boost actually living in lowsec ?

Only in may SOTF got 22 dread kills, 10 carrier kills and a total of 721 kills, all in half a month. Sure, there are carebearish lowsec areas like Aridia, but if you chose an area like Black RIse or Placid, you are gonna get more pew pew than in any null where you are surrounded by blue space 20 jumps in any direction. Isk making from 4/10 and 6/10, FW missions, shiny loot, etc is also more than decent (better than whoring sanctums for sure).

So in conclusion, low sec is not by any means in dire need of improvements. Sure, it's the same 10 corps fighting eachother in a region and it would be nice to have some new ppl to shoot at, but all in all it's not half as bad as you make it sound.
Lauren Sheaperd
Know-Nothings
Negative Feedback
#54 - 2012-05-15 09:06:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Lauren Sheaperd
Lock out wrote:
Is anybody from the crowd crying how lowsec should get a boost actually living in lowsec ?

Only in may SOTF got 22 dread kills, 10 carrier kills and a total of 721 kills, all in half a month. Sure, there are carebearish lowsec areas like Aridia, but if you chose an area like Black RIse or Placid, you are gonna get more pew pew than in any null where you are surrounded by blue space 20 jumps in any direction. Isk making from 4/10 and 6/10, FW missions, shiny loot, etc is also more than decent (better than whoring sanctums for sure).

So in conclusion, low sec is not by any means in dire need of improvements. Sure, it's the same 10 corps fighting eachother in a region and it would be nice to have some new ppl to shoot at, but all in all it's not half as bad as you make it sound.


The people who want improvements to low-sec are the exact opposite to you guys. Infact, you're part of what's wrong. Many of us enjoy solo to small-gang PvP, and that is severely limited by players who bring fleet battles and capitals to low-sec. Low-sec seems to really be the only place for non-fleet PvP, and many are worried that will stop if low-sec follows current trends.

On the issue of the state of low-sec as an area to habitate, you need to look at the bigger picture. While issues such as making isk may seem irrelevant to you or I as individuals, it does to many people who might otherwise consider living there and it's barely better than high-sec before risk, time spent avoiding enemies, etc. If this was improved, we'd likely get increased low-sec traffic which would be nice for everyone - don't you think?

That said, low-sec has a lot more problems than simple monetary woes. It needs definition that it currently lacks - which I hope is to become a sort-of small gang haven. The problem is, it seems CCP wants it be the deformed sibling of null-sec. That really only makes it less likely for people to come. Why play blob-land in low-sec when you can do it null-sec and make more money?

Why do I even have a signature these days?
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#55 - 2012-05-15 10:20:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Lock out
Then where do you want to send 30 vs 30 fleet fights ? 30 man fleets are too small for null, unless they align with a powerblock, in which case, 20 jumps of bluespace all around, and CTAs all day. We gotta have a place too, y'know ? Blink
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#56 - 2012-05-15 10:35:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Lock out wrote:
Is anybody from the crowd crying how lowsec should get a boost actually living in lowsec ?

Only in may SOTF got 22 dread kills, 10 carrier kills and a total of 721 kills, all in half a month. Sure, there are carebearish lowsec areas like Aridia, but if you chose an area like Black RIse or Placid, you are gonna get more pew pew than in any null where you are surrounded by blue space 20 jumps in any direction. Isk making from 4/10 and 6/10, FW missions, shiny loot, etc is also more than decent (better than whoring sanctums for sure).

So in conclusion, low sec is not by any means in dire need of improvements. Sure, it's the same 10 corps fighting eachother in a region and it would be nice to have some new ppl to shoot at, but all in all it's not half as bad as you make it sound.


So PvP in low-sec isn't necessarily dead (I assume in those regions the targets of opportunity are mostly null-bears though), but what you guys are doing doesn't really constitute 'piracy' (especially not if it involves grinding ISK in plexes to fund PvP).

Piracy now mostly happens in high-sec, with people ganking exhumers, juicy haulers and even freighters. It's a prey-migration thing really.

Lock out wrote:
Then where do you want to send 30 vs 30 fleet fights ? 30 man fleets are too small for null, unless they align with a powerblock, in which case, 20 jumps of bluespace all around, and CTAs all day. We gotta have a place too, y'know ? Blink

Well FW seems a good place for what you describe, but you guys left that behind, it seems.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Lauren Sheaperd
Know-Nothings
Negative Feedback
#57 - 2012-05-15 11:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Lauren Sheaperd
Lock out wrote:
Then where do you want to send 30 vs 30 fleet fights ? 30 man fleets are too small for null, unless they align with a powerblock, in which case, 20 jumps of bluespace all around, and CTAs all day. We gotta have a place too, y'know ? Blink


How often do you have those thirty vs. thirty fights, relative to the number of times your gang outnumbers your target at least five to one? I took a brief (and I really mean brief, like first two pages brief) look at your killboard - and sure, you have those fights - but mostly you attack smaller targets with far superior numbers (usually more than the previously stated five to one, I might add). The current low-sec population (and most probably can't ever sustain) can't sustain the numbers required for thirtv vs. thirty man gangs, and rather than splitting up said gangs you continue to attack smaller targets. This is where the problem lies, and I'm not sure where you’re supposed to go - or where people like me are supposed to go – as much as I’d like to say “get the hell out of my Eve” then it wouldn’t be Eve.

However, that brings me to a point I made earlier - the greatest problem by far is the player base. It just so happens CCP hasn't exactly been kind to low-sec either.

Why do I even have a signature these days?
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#58 - 2012-05-15 11:49:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Ravnik wrote:
Devore Sekk wrote:
Piracy would be in a much better state if you could actually collect ransoms, which no one pays anymore due to all the pirates who don't honor them. Direct your anger at your brethren, not CCP or the carebears.


Maybe there should be a Ransom module which you activate on victim, pops a screen up on their screen with the ransom demand, if they accept, it then disables the lock and they are free to leave! Then pirates who still wish to go down the Ransom road are free to do so. Anyone else can just blow you up Evil


Ransoming is meta-gaming gameplay. Making it part of gameplay mechanics is a bad thing for the player-driven sandbox.

Also the problem with piracy isn't and never has been about ransoms. Having seen piracy evolve from the early days of M0o, M3G4 and Space Invaders, the changes in piracy have been caused by changes in travel mechanics (Wt0, bridge mechanics JF, highway gates), changing landscapes (cultivation of null, low-sec depopulation, opening of W-space) and some new toys altering tactics and cost-efficiency (recons, stealth bombers, improved destroyers, new Tr3 BC and even T3).

To fix 'traditional' EVE-piracy low-sec needs to be turned into the 17th century Caribbean again by a massive nerf to null-alliance power projection (increasing jump&bridge fuel consumption hundredfold), a massive increase in profitability making the risk acceptable for the rewards and fully separating the empires by FW-oriented low-sec zones boosting low-sec cultivation and risky travel.

And finally allowing dictor bubbles in low-sec (making the sentries very angry) allowing effective hit&run tactics to pick off individual low-sec traffic, but never perma-camping systems completely (the FW militia will likely keep heavy piracy quite suppressed in the border zones).

Keeping bored null-power interference minimal is crucial though.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Lauren Sheaperd
Know-Nothings
Negative Feedback
#59 - 2012-05-15 11:56:44 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
Ravnik wrote:
Devore Sekk wrote:
Piracy would be in a much better state if you could actually collect ransoms, which no one pays anymore due to all the pirates who don't honor them. Direct your anger at your brethren, not CCP or the carebears.


Maybe there should be a Ransom module which you activate on victim, pops a screen up on their screen with the ransom demand, if they accept, it then disables the lock and they are free to leave! Then pirates who still wish to go down the Ransom road are free to do so. Anyone else can just blow you up Evil


Ransoming is meta-gaming gameplay. Making it part of gameplay mechanics is a bad thing for the player-driven sandbox.

Also the problem with piracy isn't and never has been about ransoms. Having seen piracy evolve from the early days of M0o, M3G4 and Space Invaders, the changes in piracy have been caused by changes in travel mechanics (Wt0, bridge mechanics JF, highway gates), changing landscapes (cultivation of null, low-sec depopulation, opening of W-space) and some new toys altering tactics and cost-efficiency (recons, stealth bombers, improved destroyers, new Tr3 BC and even T3).

To fix 'traditional' EVE-piracy low-sec needs to be turned into the 17th century Caribbean again by a massive nerf to null-alliance power projection (increasing jump&bridge fuel consumption hundredfold), a massive increase in profitability making the risk acceptable for the rewards and perhaps fully separating the empires by FW-oriented low-sec zones boosting low-sec cultivation and travel.

And finally allowing dictor bubbles in low-sec (making the sentries very angry) allowing effective hit&run tactics to pick of low-sec traffic, but never perma-camping systems completely (though the FW militia would likely deal with that in the border zones).


Why not just got to null-sec then? The problem with low-sec as it's current existance is completely defined by PvP, and to that end more and more people result to capitals and blob tactics driving others away. And you know what? Bubbles are a blobbers weapons, and allowing them will just give most players no-chance of escape rather that some chance of escape. If you're really having a problem catching targets otherwise, you've got a problem.

Why do I even have a signature these days?
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#60 - 2012-05-15 12:14:30 UTC
Torothin wrote:


You nearly never get any good drops like you used to from people hauling stuff due to the implementation of capitals


Yes you do. Just fewer stupid people now. You have to be more patient.

And more.... there are wormholes in EVE now.... And the drops in wormholes can be epic. You can get more faction drops in wormholes than in plexes, tbh. Just 2 days ago we killed a 360mil isk harbinger in a C1 and he dropped 80mil in mods. Not bad for 10 min of work.