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Skill Implants are hurting PVP and NPE

Author
Gordon Howard
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-05-15 10:30:52 UTC
Hello, I am an obvious alt here to raise a serious discussion about skill implants in the game, and maybe hopefullysee some DEV input.

I believe skill implants are hurting the new player experience, PVP and how new players are getting into PVP or not ofcourse. Eve should be a difficult game this is why EVE is the only game I play but the mindset new players are getting into as soon as they join the game "fit +4s and learn skills as fast as you can at ALL costs" is having too much of a negative effect in my opinion .

People are fitting plus 4s then doing highsec safe activities like missions until they get to a point where they are happy about thier own skills to PVP or until they get a jump clone. New players are addicted to the skill learning boost implants give P Getting young players to risk thier implants in group activities like wormholes and PVP The fun part of EVE seems very difficult right now.

One solution I have seen is an implant contract where your choosen skill implants would be covered for a month probably at a higher cost, another solution removing skill implants from the game all together. I like the game difficult, I like that item prices have been rising and veterans have high SP, I like the long term aspects of the game. So please dont flame about dumbing the game down. I would like to see a serious discussion. Thank You.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#2 - 2012-05-15 10:31:41 UTC
This is totally a new idea and warranted a new thread.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2012-05-15 10:34:21 UTC
use jump clones or grow some nuts. Both are viable ways of pvping with implants.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-05-15 10:48:05 UTC
This argument was well covered by a capsuleer named Andski


He is the Spokesman for the New Eden Nambla Alliance.



Check out his name and follow his threads.
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#5 - 2012-05-15 10:48:49 UTC
*sigh* another one of these misguided fools that think that skillpoints are so important that you can't do meaningful PvP without using +4 learning implants .

baltec1 wrote:
use jump clones or grow some nuts. Both are viable ways of pvping with implants.


Because jumpclones take away a lot of the risk of having a head full of very expensive implants, and easily allow players to min-max their sets without handicapping their versatility, I can't wait until CCP nerfs jumpclones HARD.

Player convenience is breaking both the rules of risk vs. reward and efficiency vs. versatility.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2012-05-15 10:53:19 UTC
Gordon Howard wrote:
Eve should be a difficult game this is why EVE is the only game I play but the mindset new players are getting into as soon as they join the game "fit +4s and learn skills as fast as you can at ALL costs" is having too much of a negative effect in my opinion .


You do realize that the problem is not the implants, but the fact that CCP allows new players to be contaminated by NPC corp evernoobs?

.

Josef Djugashvilis
#7 - 2012-05-15 10:56:10 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
*sigh* another one of these misguided fools that think that skillpoints are so important that you can't do meaningful PvP without using +4 learning implants .

baltec1 wrote:
use jump clones or grow some nuts. Both are viable ways of pvping with implants.


Because jumpclones take away a lot of the risk of having a head full of very expensive implants, and easily allow players to min-max their sets without handicapping their versatility, I can't wait until CCP nerfs jumpclones HARD.

Player convenience is breaking both the rules of risk vs. reward and efficiency vs. versatility.


It is not that one cannot do pvp without a set of +4 implants.

It is that one is less inclined to do so because of the financial cost of losing them.

Also, there is the loss of 'accelerated' training speed, which for some players may seem quite important.

This is not a signature.

Tobiaz
Spacerats
#8 - 2012-05-15 11:05:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:


It is not that one cannot do pvp without a set of +4 implants.

It is that one is less inclined to do so because of the financial cost of losing them.

Also, there is the loss of 'accelerated' training speed, which for some players may seem quite important.


Apparently important enough that they don't like to have to make a choice between longer training times or high risk PvP. What they are basically demanding is having their cake and eating it. Something that should never be allowed in a player-driven sandbox game.

If a player can't afford risking +4 implants, use +3. if he can't afford losing those either, use +2. If he is really such a newbie or such a lousy player, not even able to pay for these, he should be kept far away from +4, because he clearly isn't ready for them yet.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#9 - 2012-05-15 11:07:36 UTC
I took my 5 bil clone to null, and then a wh the other day

Pussies gonna puss

There should be a rather awesome pic here

Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-05-15 11:09:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
It is not that one cannot do pvp without a set of +4 implants.

It is that one is less inclined to do so because of the financial cost of losing them.

the same can be said for destructible ships, maybe we should make the ship respawn after half a minute to encourage more pvp.

of course I get more pvp action in WoW than I get in EVE, that's part of the game design and follows directly from pvp having a real cost and consequences.

since the removal of learning skills newbies already get ridiculous SP/h even without any implants (and my main is fine with +3s, don't know why newbies need +4s); if you really think you need these extra attribute points get yourself a cerebral accelerator, I'm pretty sure it survives podding.

as previous posters have pointed out "I need more ISK/SP/... before I can do x" is a way of thinking that can only be described as wrong; catering to that mindset means catering to greedy carebears who will never leave high-sec anyways (because no matter how much they have, they will never be "ready").

.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#11 - 2012-05-15 11:12:37 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:

as previous posters have pointed out "I need more ISK/SP/... before I can do x" is a way of thinking that can only be described as wrong; catering to that mindset means catering to greedy carebears who will never leave high-sec anyways (because no matter how much they have, they will never be "ready").


This bears repeating (excuse the pun).

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#12 - 2012-05-15 11:12:55 UTC
Hi Obvious Alt....

Quote:
Eve should be a difficult game this is why EVE is the only game I play but the mindset new players are getting into as soon as they join the game "fit +4s and learn skills as fast as you can at ALL costs" is having too much of a negative effect in my opinion .


Sounds to me like the real problem is the mindset of the new players, not the implants.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Tobiaz
Spacerats
#13 - 2012-05-15 11:19:33 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Hi Obvious Alt....

Quote:
Eve should be a difficult game this is why EVE is the only game I play but the mindset new players are getting into as soon as they join the game "fit +4s and learn skills as fast as you can at ALL costs" is having too much of a negative effect in my opinion .


Sounds to me like the real problem is the mindset of the new players, not the implants.


While I understand CCP's reasoning behind it, I do think the 30-day booster, easily lost implant for newbies is poorly implemented for the reason of exactly stimulating such sentiments among newbies.

Not to sound too much bittervet, but in the old days new players spend the first two weeks sitting on their ass, training learning skills. A month even if they were serious about being a long-term player. Facing that, I might have agreed that learning implants were mandatory to some degree. But these days? Pfeh!

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Idicious Lightbane
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-05-15 11:23:20 UTC
The simple solution is to have a pvp clone with +2's or +3's, and jumpclone to your +4/+5 clone when you're done pew-pew'ing.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#15 - 2012-05-15 11:54:02 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Hi Obvious Alt....

Quote:
Eve should be a difficult game this is why EVE is the only game I play but the mindset new players are getting into as soon as they join the game "fit +4s and learn skills as fast as you can at ALL costs" is having too much of a negative effect in my opinion .


Sounds to me like the real problem is the mindset of the new players, not the implants.


While I understand CCP's reasoning behind it, I do think the 30-day booster, easily lost implant for newbies is poorly implemented for the reason of exactly stimulating such sentiments among newbies.

Not to sound too much bittervet, but in the old days new players spend the first two weeks sitting on their ass, training learning skills. A month even if they were serious about being a long-term player. Facing that, I might have agreed that learning implants were mandatory to some degree. But these days? Pfeh!


Well i dont know much about the "30-day booster, easily lost implant for newbies", as I am what you might call a bitter-vet. Maybe not quite as grey-haired as some, but I've been around for a while.

Yes, I went through the pain of skilling up learning skills, but you know how i did it.... I mixed them up with my other skills, so I could play the game as I skilled. I then began earning money to work up through the implants etc.

If a noob thinks that he needs to butn a few PLEX to get a set of +4 as soon as he starts playing then that his problem. Its not the fault of the implants.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#16 - 2012-05-15 12:12:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Cutter Isaacson
Why don't people just let the noobs do what the noobs want to do? You go play your game the way you want to and stop trying to dictate what everyone else should be doing. I'm pretty damn sure that everyone in this thread has made use of implants or jump clones or boosters in some form, so not a one of you has the right to stop others from doing so.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.

Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-05-15 12:15:32 UTC
Let the newbies worry about themselves.

I detect only tears here. Bizarre tears. Odd tears. 'Look at Me naow" Tears.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900

Verte Sinkon
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-05-15 12:20:56 UTC
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
I took my 5 bil clone to null, and then a wh the other day

Pussies gonna puss


I got tired of jump clone wait times now I just self destruct my pod with +4's all the damn time or hand off free 100mil pod kills to people.

I'm a fuckin saint.
Josef Djugashvilis
#19 - 2012-05-15 12:22:08 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Why don't people just let the noobs do what the noobs want to do? You go play your game the way you want to and stop trying to dictate what everyone else should be doing. I'm pretty damn sure that everyone in this thread has made use of implants or jump clones or boosters in some form, so not a one of you has the right to stop others from doing so.


Agreed.

You pays your money you plays your game.

This is not a signature.

Sevastian Liao
DreamWeaver Inc.
#20 - 2012-05-15 12:34:52 UTC
I wanted to venture out into more dangerous regions of space, should I choose to.

I also wanted to be able to learn skills fast/do other carebeary stuff at max efficiency while I'm in Empire and make use of expensive implants for that purpose.

So I took time off during Hulkageddon to go work up standings with an NPC corp, and now both options are open to me.

So yeah, I didn't see how being made to work for a state that I desired (Being able to utilize both expensive implants for training during my "down time" and also being able to limit my losses from risky activities) spoiled my new player experience. The option's there for you to enjoy the best of both worlds, you just have to work for it. I can fly around in cruisers instead of cheap rifters if I want to - I just have to make sure my income streams can support my desire to do so. Newbies shouldn't expect to get a taste of the whole EVE package without having to put in some decent effort for it. And I didn't think the standings grind was all that hard with storyline agents readily available.
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