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FW and ECM Frigates
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Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#21 - 2012-05-14 19:29:55 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I gave the example of an af and griffin above.
Can't ab fit AFs with reppers take down (or at least perma-tackle) a drake anyways?

My experience is that griffins in plexes are pretty much dead meat, but I fly Gallente with drones or sniper cormorants most of the time.


I will fight an af and any other t1 frigate other than a griffin. But anytime I am solo and I see a griffin I leave. Yes when you have more people the griffin will not be such a big deal.

A double web heavy missile drake should be able to fight a few afs - I would think - even after the af buff. Same goes for a single web ham drake. Just use the caldari navy missiles and use the right damage type.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#22 - 2012-05-14 19:31:10 UTC
Cearain wrote:
I also think ecm is good in that it gives you the ability to fight when outnumbered.


This I quite disagree with: In my experience if one side is outnumbered, then the enemy ships can easily overwhelm and neutralize the ecm on the outnumbered side.

The thing I see ecm used for more often than not is for the blobbing side to make sure that tacklers don't die. (I've lost count of how many times have I engaged a 2-3 people solo for a falcon (or two) to show up, decloak and permajam).
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#23 - 2012-05-14 19:49:54 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I also think ecm is good in that it gives you the ability to fight when outnumbered.


This I quite disagree with: In my experience if one side is outnumbered, then the enemy ships can easily overwhelm and neutralize the ecm on the outnumbered side.

The thing I see ecm used for more often than not is for the blobbing side to make sure that tacklers don't die. (I've lost count of how many times have I engaged a 2-3 people solo for a falcon (or two) to show up, decloak and permajam).



I agree that is where you see it most. But I do think it could theoretically be used to help the smaller side bring a fight. Escecailly the scorpions that can have some tank and smartbombs for the drones.

Yeah its out of hand for solo pilots. But that is why having a mechanic like I describe in faction war would attract more solo and very small scale pvpers.

I do like ecm for countering logistics.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
TRUE ZER0
SILENT INC
#24 - 2012-05-14 19:52:00 UTC
Remove ECM or my Falcons will blot out the stars!
Scrutt5
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-05-15 01:25:58 UTC
Always good to see the various sides and points of view of any topic raised and I thank each and every one of you for your comments.

Some of you do honestly need to brush up on your intel, I'm proud to be flying the solo flag, I don't run an alt booster, i do run a scout. If im engaging you in frig its pretty much what you see is what your against.

I joined FW for the fights, for the fun, I don't care if I lose a T1-T2 frig , it's how I learnt about target selection, it's how I learnt to pvp. Guys, 1 FW mission will pay for 5 fitted frigs, why won't the FW community wake up and enjoy what FW has to offer rather than being bothered by a frig loss?


Come on guys pvp is a rush, it's what makes eve. Man up everyone, jump in a frig, have some fun and realise what this sandbox is all about.

Guys lets enjoy this game were all addicted to, but let's drop the lame mechanics.


See ya on the battlefield
Scrutts
Scrutt5
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-05-15 01:33:04 UTC
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
Scrutt5 wrote:
I am alarmed at how many pilots are fitting ecm onto non bonused frigates in FW at the moment.
Its completly killing the ability to take a on a fight outnumbered in frigates.


Because minmatar never, ever fit ECM to unbonused hulls am I right?

Also, I admit that I think I was the first one flying the much un-loved ecm hookbill for the lulz Lol

Also, if you boast taking on multiple t1 frigates with one t1 frigate it probably means you have t3 links safespotted and you fly a kiting fit so ecm on frigates is probably just means of wt's to force you out of the plex since they know you can stay of their range until the sun goes out.

Also, your corp is well known for overblobbing so you complaining about being on receiving end is pretty hilarious.





Kiting ECM hookbill ? Maybe both sides are using (in my opinion) a lame tactic, personally I never have n never will, don't judge me without investigating at least my reputation.
Scrutt5
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-05-15 01:44:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Scrutt5
Kuehnelt wrote:
Scrutt5 wrote:
This morning I was perma jammed by 2 kiting frig pilots who didnt even want to get me in point range, just keep me from engaging and drive me out of their plex.


Would you have been happier to warp right into twenty arty thrashers? Or into two sniping Cormorants that "just wanted to drive you out"? Or into two Daredevils? Or into one Rifter and, 80+km off, a Crucifier with two tracting disruptors? Would you rather have not had the targeting range to lock them up? Would you have rather they both warped off before you landed on grid?

"I didn't get a good fight from these two people this one time" is not a problem to be solved.

But if this is a stealth "nerf non-Amarr combat frigs/destroyers" thread, you can count me in :) Something must be done about the EWAR-capable.




Fortunatly im very familiar with the d-scan, the above just wouldnt happen as any experienced pvper will testify
Gritz1
Ice Fire Warriors
#28 - 2012-05-15 05:35:33 UTC
Both sides impressions of each militia is really funny.
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#29 - 2012-05-15 06:03:03 UTC
Cearain wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I also think ecm is good in that it gives you the ability to fight when outnumbered.


This I quite disagree with: In my experience if one side is outnumbered, then the enemy ships can easily overwhelm and neutralize the ecm on the outnumbered side.

The thing I see ecm used for more often than not is for the blobbing side to make sure that tacklers don't die. (I've lost count of how many times have I engaged a 2-3 people solo for a falcon (or two) to show up, decloak and permajam).



I agree that is where you see it most. But I do think it could theoretically be used to help the smaller side bring a fight. Escecailly the scorpions that can have some tank and smartbombs for the drones.

Yeah its out of hand for solo pilots. But that is why having a mechanic like I describe in faction war would attract more solo and very small scale pvpers.

I do like ecm for countering logistics.


I remember a fight AUTOZ had against Amarr on the Kourm/Huola gate about a year ago where we used like 2 blackbirds warping around the grid to go isk-efficient against a BS/BC Hospital Domi fleet that was about 2-3x our fleet size. ECM can be fun/useful and even "fair", it really just depends on the situation.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-05-15 06:13:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Halete
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:
Snip.


Drops Blackbirds with Cormorants/Navy Omens and Tengu boosts frequently in a dual/tri/quad box.
Complains when people want four thrashers to fight her.

But seriously, you should know that not everyone has to ship up at the threat of an 'even' fight given that you get every type of fight (disadvantaged, even, advantaged).

Which is true for both Militias - the funny thing about getting hundreds of people together is that the blobbing and other shenanigans aren't representative of the entire communities.


Scrutt5 wrote:

Fortunatly im very familiar with the d-scan, the above just wouldnt happen as any experienced pvper will testify


My only experience with Kuehnelt in space was after I witnessed him warp onto a Medium gate where a R.A.G.E. fleet was sitting when the plex was d-scannable from a celestial. (whilst being the 1WT in a system full of Minnies)

Props to him though, he talked a mad smack game for half an hour afterwards like a champ.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
TotalRapeage
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-05-15 08:54:24 UTC
Scrutt5 wrote:
Fitting ECCM would obiously be the answer for fighting 1v1 but 3v1 and a 3/1 chance still pretty much guarentees your perma jammed.



Adapt, overcome, stop whining.Evil
Markius TheShed
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#32 - 2012-05-15 09:52:30 UTC
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:


It was me! I am famous now. \o/

And I will tell you my favourite story about "fighting" the Minmatar:



I'll tell you my favorite story about "Fighting" Cynthia.

I'm in a medium Plex in a Standard fit shield rupture, She comes in with a Omen Navy issue and there is her Blackbird Alt outside on short scan.

So I kite her a bit but I'm not really doing enough damage still its a challenging fight, But then in comes the BB alt and the fights over.

STOP Blobbing us AMARR It's not FAIR Cry

**Murientor Tribe** a capsuleer organization composed of radical Minmatar. Since YC107
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#33 - 2012-05-15 10:04:55 UTC  |  Edited by: IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Scrutt5 wrote:
Kiting ECM hookbill ?


Poor man's damp hookbill essentially.

Cynthia Nezmor wrote:

It was me! I am famous now. \o/

And I will tell you my favourite story about "fighting" the Minmatar:

I see an enemy destroyer in a minor. Great! I send my own destroyer. He runs. They come back with 2 destroyers. I dock, I go to the plex with 2 destroyers myself. They run, they come back with FOUR destroyers. This is "lol we only plex to get fights you ******" Minmatar militia.

Right now, I am docked in Lantorn, because they just had to send 4 destroyers and their "neutral" Loki to fight my Cormorant and my Thrasher.

Earlier today I was using the same 2 destroyers, when our old friend sasawong appeared in system. He was using the exact same 2 ships. He didn't want to fight in the minor plex, he went for a medium instead. And switched to a Gila. Because you know, a "good fight" is one when you have Gila, Thrasher and medium NPCs against 2 destroyers.

http://a7th.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13368686

Same story every day.


I think this is unironic. I'll quote it so the pilots of both sides more sensible than myself can see it

And I will tell you my favourite story about "fighting" the Nezmor.

I see Cynthia (+ mandatory blackbird alt) in arzad local, oh well i'm flying cheap stuff and I'm bored.

Undock a reasonable ship, blackbird docks refits jams,
swap race, blackbird docks refits jams,
swap race, blackbird docks refits jams, etc..

Having only 1 racial jammer for a 2v1 is not enough!

Anyway both sides do lame stuff, do it back or don't fight them simple as.

The idea of complaining about loki alts is hilarious, there is nothing stopping anyone who cares that much from buying one.
Numbers are harder to come by so thats fair enough but if you think T3 boosters are OP get one yourself or shut up.
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#34 - 2012-05-15 10:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Joanna Ramirez
Scrutt5 wrote:
Guys lets enjoy this game were all addicted to, but let's drop the lame mechanics.


Says a person from a corp where standard tactic is to have neutral logistics in the field. And t3 links on a pos 23/7 etc.

You are bit like a guy from Ninja Unicorns (aka Cynocorns) who complained we blobbed and ganked him completely unfairly inside a plex where he could not light a cyno. And this is coming from a group of people who repeteadly drop super capitals on battlecruisers.

Said guy was of course just looking for a good 1vs1 according to his own words. Yes, I know there are some actual solo players out there but 99% of the low-sec population packs their own neutral links, neutral falcon and neutral logistic, preferably all at the same time.
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#35 - 2012-05-15 10:35:08 UTC
Side note soon you wont have to fight these players, at least not defensively.

If hostiles are plexing your system and you don't agree with their tactics (numbers, ECM, lolki alts...) you can just pour LP into the IHUB, may mean more reasonable ships flown.
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-05-15 11:44:31 UTC
My best "Cynthia story" is that every time she's requested to log out her alts by a smaller/lighter fleet, she does.

Shocking, I know.

This said, I don't understand why you would be surprised people come back with big numbers ready for you when you're always seen fielding boosts and ECM-alt with optional Destroyer extras on stand-by. If you don't want people to field cheese you probably shouldn't set the precedent that you're going to cheese when you fight.




"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
Bengal Bob
Slymsloot Enterprises
#37 - 2012-05-15 14:51:09 UTC
My best Cynthia story is engaging dessie v dessie in a minor plex, only to see a griffin DECLOAK at a safe range to jam me out.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#38 - 2012-05-15 17:11:32 UTC
Bengal Bob wrote:
My best Cynthia story is engaging dessie v dessie in a minor plex, only to see a griffin DECLOAK at a safe range to jam me out.




If this happened then this is just stupid. If I want to start a fight only to be jammed after I am pointed I would go to amamake's glory belt.

But this tactic will likely be effective if people all of a sudden really want to "win" the plexing game so they can get all the valuable rewards ccp now offers. Griffins in the minors and blackbirds in the mediums.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Brisco County
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-05-15 21:03:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Brisco County
Fit FoF missiles. As an added bonus, you get to spam FOFOFOFOFOFOOFOFOFOFO in local. Or use drones.

There are ways. Don't play the whiny f***ing carebear and bleed on the forums about it. Find your own solution, don't expect the game to bend over backwards for you because you're having a hard time.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#40 - 2012-05-15 21:46:18 UTC
In this case it's the cloak that's the issue. He could have decloaked another dessie and you'd be just as screwed.
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