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New dev blog: War, Modules & Super Friends

First post
Author
Khadanne
Perkone
Caldari State
#121 - 2012-05-14 17:01:17 UTC
Why chaning the T1 seeding method for these new modules?

This kind of decisions add only complexity to the game and will be changed back in 2 years time in a revamp...

"At the time we assumed that... we wanted to..."
Hyperforce99
Boosh Fleet
#122 - 2012-05-14 17:04:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Hyperforce99
i would rather see something that makes more sense instead of making tracking disruptors effect missiles.

such as a high slot module that acts as an automated point defense turret.
It could intercepts a certain mount of missiles / rockets per cycle.
This means that swarm style missiles will be more effective compared to single high damage missiles.
If this is tied to the new missile effects it would be pretty awesome.
leich
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#123 - 2012-05-14 17:06:09 UTC
Why are the T1 not going onto the market.

This is r_tarded.

ALL T1 items should have a T1 BPO seeded onto the market. Otherwise how are people going to be able to produce BPC's and T2 variants in the future.

CCP how can you be doing so well to drop the ball at the last hurdle.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#124 - 2012-05-14 17:06:22 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Evelgrivion wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
This meta gaming is only effective for the corps that want to try to reduce wardecs, and to do so, require massive expenses, and it doesn't stop anyone from wardeccing them anyway (since cost shouldn't be balancing, the price of a wardec is no more effective than the cost of adding alts to a corp). Yes it should be discouraged, but to compare it to a super cap that, even in small numbers, were extremely effective against everything is absurd.


Even if you think the comparison goes too far, the creation of dec-cost-bloating alts is something that obviously reeks of trouble, the cost scaling is a blatant display of favoritism towards organizations that are large, and I haven't seen any active interest in mitigating these potentially serious problems in advance from CCP. Straight

Some favoritism towards larger entities is acceptable, especially if CCP wants to encourage hisec small corps to band together more often (which is a good thing because of increased player interaction). This encouragement coming at the cost of more metagaming and weird mechanics is the unacceptable part.


Petrus, I don't think you can effectively stop people from putting as many of their alts from an active account into whatever corp they like... but there are two things to consider.

1: Those alts often have legitimate reasons for being in the same corp for multi boxers, however quite often those alts will be left outside of the corp the main character is a member of, because in the event of a war dec it is far more handy to have them operating in safety.

2: There is no way for CCP to determine who is a main and who is an alt character. Nor should they be able to.

3: CCP likely can (and should) look into not counting ANY character (main or alt) that has been inactive for over 30 days.

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Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#125 - 2012-05-14 17:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Iam Widdershins
Excellent devblog, lots of really great stuff in here.

I especially liked your implementation of war cost, and I think that's an excellent solution. I like how much math goes into it to give that nice curve.

I have a serious concern about this though: Until this point, there has never been any major advantage to using the buddy invite system as often as possible to give yourself short-term alts. However, with the advent of increased war costs per corp member, I see no reason not to:


  1. Use the buddy invite as often as possible using PLEX, up to once per month, to pay for as much of your main subscription as possible

  2. Create three characters with these now non-trial accounts and put them into a player corporation to inflate war declaration costs

  3. Let the new 'buddy' accounts lapse without any intent to continue their use past paying the subscription


This mechanic has several serious drawbacks, both for the players at large and for CCP.


  1. It allows a large and well-coordinated player organization to easily add upwards of 20,000 characters, all in non-trial accounts, to its ranks every year

  2. It represents an abuse of the buddy invite system that is very difficult to combat without severely limiting the usage of the buddy system, one of the game's better recruitment avenues


I believe that it would be very wise not to count inactive accounts. This would not represent any really usable disclosure of subscriber information, especially since the difference would not be visible until there are at least 113 members in the target alliance. Edit: I see you're looking at addressing this. Excellent.



What happened to wars against corporations only costing 20,000,000 ISK? I think war costs increasing when they are against alliances rather than corporations is an important mechanic. Why not simply subtract 30,000,000 ISK from the cost if it is a corporation?

Edit: And please, can you please consider getting a de-escalating factor on the war cost multiplier for long and many wars, the same way you've got on the increased member count? Or removing it entirely and replacing it with something else?

What about the cost of wars that have dropped from alliances? We are assured that they will not add to the cost of the original war, sure, but can they not be subsidiary to it, residing under the same bill until you choose to cease warring against them? This could alleviate the serious issues many face in alliances collapsing completely in order to avoid a war by forcing the attacking corporation to pay exorbitant fees to keep them dec'd. (Currently they can't keep them dec'd at all, but in the future the fees are going to be the issue.)

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

Mangala Solaris
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#126 - 2012-05-14 17:10:11 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:


The possible abuse gets more and more egregious with larger corp size. I do not expect Goonswarm to do this (they typically do not give enough fucks) but E-Uni, RvB, and other hisec/lowsec entities will. This will lead to artificially inflated membership counts, obnoxious "my corp is safer than yours because it's bigger" peen-waving, some corps requiring mandatory alt joining, and other nasties. My question to CCP SoniClover is whether this is intended and expected, or whether it's going to be addressed.


To be fair to us in RvB, the majority of us like 3rd party war decs as it means MORE targets for us, we are all about the explosions, inside and outside of our little community.
Carton Mantory
Vindicate and Deliverance
#127 - 2012-05-14 17:12:35 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Stuff about exploit


Very soon CCP says trial buddy system is now over!
Carton Mantory
Vindicate and Deliverance
#128 - 2012-05-14 17:14:59 UTC
leich wrote:
Why are the T1 not going onto the market.

This is r_tarded.

ALL T1 items should have a T1 BPO seeded onto the market. Otherwise how are people going to be able to produce BPC's and T2 variants in the future.

CCP how can you be doing so well to drop the ball at the last hurdle.


I dont think this is a permanent solution. I want the initial mods in bpc format then turned into bpo.
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#129 - 2012-05-14 17:16:31 UTC
So, CCP, as part of your war-themed expansion you:

  • Made wars 10 to 20 times more expensive for the aggressor.
  • Allowed the defender, and the defender only, to bring allies into the war.
  • Implemented a fix to corp hopping that doesn't penalize the defenders hopping corp.
  • Added a new "get out of jail free card" module.

All that for the defender. The aggressor gets:

  • Fixes for a couple exploits you knew about for years.
  • Starting wars takes 24 hours less.

That's it? And to think I just fixed my sec status for the expansion...

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644

VagabondAlt
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#130 - 2012-05-14 17:22:57 UTC
leich wrote:
Why are the T1 not going onto the market.

This is r_tarded.

ALL T1 items should have a T1 BPO seeded onto the market. Otherwise how are people going to be able to produce BPC's and T2 variants in the future.

CCP how can you be doing so well to drop the ball at the last hurdle.

this has been answered repeatedly

try reading
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#131 - 2012-05-14 17:23:48 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Kadesh Priestess wrote:
You didn't mention Small Targeting Amplifier I. Will they be released on may 22th, are they just postponed like missile TDs / MJD, or completely off the drawing board already?


We tested this a bit and didn't feel it added a lot of value, so it's shelved for the time being.



guys soniclover is probs the best dev at ccp right now... i would say tied with the french guy and tallest...

this man needs more likes!

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#132 - 2012-05-14 17:25:55 UTC
One way to prevent buddy system exploits to corp numbers is to not count lapsed members unless they have been subscribed at least 2 months in the past.

That way deccing corps do not get (much) free intel about true active corp membership, and your lapsed buddy accounts will not count unless you actually pay for at least one extra month. (The first is free due to the PLEX reward for inviting a buddy).

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

VagabondAlt
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#133 - 2012-05-14 17:27:36 UTC
Does the magsheath break the locks of ships immune to electronic warfare (titans, supercarriers)?
Sister Rhode
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#134 - 2012-05-14 17:27:44 UTC
I like the changes. Shame the micro jump drive and salvage drones won't be ready though, I was looking forward to them the most.

Small/Med web drones are going to rock!

I really think the cap battery bonus needs to be carefully designed, or my alt will probably never fly a curse again :(
VagabondAlt
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#135 - 2012-05-14 17:29:58 UTC
Also does the magsheath scanres penalty apply only when trying to break locks, or does it apply whenever the module is fitted (like a cloak)
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
Alliance. Now. Please.
#136 - 2012-05-14 17:30:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Thunk
I see that in the last 4 weeks Eve University has gone from 1,500 members to 2,200 members. Roll

Source
VagabondAlt
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#137 - 2012-05-14 17:33:24 UTC
Does the magsheath break locking attempts as well, or only locks?
VaMei
Meafi Corp
#138 - 2012-05-14 17:34:32 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Toy's 'R' Drop


I LOVE it! Big smile
It's a needed buff to exploration, and it lets the new toys trickle into play rather than comming in a surge.

We need more of this.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#139 - 2012-05-14 17:34:55 UTC
Jack Dant wrote:
So, CCP, as part of your war-themed expansion you:

  • Made wars 10 to 20 times more expensive for the aggressor.
  • Allowed the defender, and the defender only, to bring allies into the war.
  • Implemented a fix to corp hopping that doesn't penalize the defenders hopping corp.
  • Added a new "get out of jail free card" module.

All that for the defender. The aggressor gets:

  • Fixes for a couple exploits you knew about for years.
  • Starting wars takes 24 hours less.

That's it? And to think I just fixed my sec status for the expansion...


Just because they knew about the exploits does not reduce the advantage to the aggressor now that they are fixed. No matter how old an exploit is, fixing it is a good thing.

Defender cannot get out of the war by jumping into, then out of an alliance.
Defender cannot set up a bunch of fake war decs to up the cost to an aggressor.

Also: Number of wars the aggressor can declare no longer artificially limited to 3, but can be as high as the aggressor is willing to pay for.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Carton Mantory
Vindicate and Deliverance
#140 - 2012-05-14 17:35:27 UTC
VagabondAlt wrote:
Does the magsheath break the locks of ships immune to electronic warfare (titans, supercarriers)?

Really need to read the description a couple times...



Answered here