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FW and ECM Frigates
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Scrutt5
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-05-14 12:41:30 UTC
I am alarmed at how many pilots are fitting ecm onto non bonused frigates in FW at the moment.
Its completly killing the ability to take a on a fight outnumbered in frigates.

In FW the minor plex's used to provide many good fights for frig pilots flying solo. Often not just 1v1 but 1v2 or 1v3, it gave an experienced pilot the ability to try and use positional advantage to fight ounumbered get kills or die in a blaze of glory. With Amarr (and here I can only comment on the Amarr who I'm currently fighting) fitting so much ecm to frigates its pretty much making solo frigate combat obsolete. This morning I was perma jammed by 2 kiting frig pilots who didnt even want to get me in point range, just keep me from engaging and drive me out of their plex.

I personally believe frigs should have their base sensor strength improved to avoid the 50/50 jam senario we currently have on non bonused frigates, its crazy and killing frig pvp. This just encourages the opposing team to bring more frigates rather than offering a fun fight.
Charlotte Elizabeth
Exit Bois
#2 - 2012-05-14 12:47:03 UTC
Fit ECCM?
Scrutt5
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-05-14 12:49:42 UTC
Fitting ECCM would obiously be the answer for fighting 1v1 but 3v1 and a 3/1 chance still pretty much guarentees your perma jammed.
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#4 - 2012-05-14 13:04:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Joanna Ramirez
Scrutt5 wrote:
I am alarmed at how many pilots are fitting ecm onto non bonused frigates in FW at the moment.
Its completly killing the ability to take a on a fight outnumbered in frigates.


Because minmatar never, ever fit ECM to unbonused hulls am I right?

Also, I admit that I think I was the first one flying the much un-loved ecm hookbill for the lulz Lol

Also, if you boast taking on multiple t1 frigates with one t1 frigate it probably means you have t3 links safespotted and you fly a kiting fit so ecm on frigates is probably just means of wt's to force you out of the plex since they know you can stay of their range until the sun goes out.

Also, your corp is well known for overblobbing so you complaining about being on receiving end is pretty hilarious.
Grimfang Wyrmspawn
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-05-14 13:14:33 UTC
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.Shocked

Imagine the tears if we started using neutral booster blobs with the constant regularity they do.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#6 - 2012-05-14 13:16:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuehnelt
Scrutt5 wrote:
This morning I was perma jammed by 2 kiting frig pilots who didnt even want to get me in point range, just keep me from engaging and drive me out of their plex.


Would you have been happier to warp right into twenty arty thrashers? Or into two sniping Cormorants that "just wanted to drive you out"? Or into two Daredevils? Or into one Rifter and, 80+km off, a Crucifier with two tracting disruptors? Would you rather have not had the targeting range to lock them up? Would you have rather they both warped off before you landed on grid?

"I didn't get a good fight from these two people this one time" is not a problem to be solved.

But if this is a stealth "nerf non-Amarr combat frigs/destroyers" thread, you can count me in :) Something must be done about the EWAR-capable.
Johnny Punisher
Avanto
Hole Control
#7 - 2012-05-14 13:30:41 UTC
At least yesterday minnies were doing plexes with loki-boosted ecm-thrasher gangs... Got us bit mad :)
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-05-14 14:22:15 UTC
You guys should be ashamed of the amount of feces flinging going on here. Both of our Militias do their fair share of ****, end of discussion. Yes, Minmatar blob with boosts. Yes, Amarr blob with boosts. Yes, we both fly ECM boats on non-ECM ships like fruitcakes.

Addressing the topic, yes Minmatar hulls suck ass at sensors. It's annoying, but there you go.

Jackals are super cheap, get em, or use another sensor system. If you are using a non-Matari hull, then that's life. You can respond to cheese with cheese or deal with it however other way.

But short story, ECM has been complained about forever and it's not new on the Frigate level. You're still entitled to complain about it but opening with the 'the Amarr' quip was zero tact.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
Dare Knight
Bandwagoners
#9 - 2012-05-14 16:41:09 UTC
Well, like everyone in the universe, people want to tip the scale in their favor. If they can attack you without you being able to shoot back, guess what....

That's nothing new, and it'll never change :\

_It's very simple, really. If you see Tengus on scan, they are ratting. If you see a shitload of Tengus, the Russians are blobbing. If you see Proteuses on scan, they will be on top of you in about a second. If you see a shitload of Proteuses, the big boys are having a goodfight. _
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
#10 - 2012-05-14 16:56:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Cynthia Nezmor
Scrutt5 wrote:
This morning I was perma jammed by 2 kiting frig pilots who didnt even want to get me in point range, just keep me from engaging and drive me out of their plex.



It was me! I am famous now. \o/

And I will tell you my favourite story about "fighting" the Minmatar:

I see an enemy destroyer in a minor. Great! I send my own destroyer. He runs. They come back with 2 destroyers. I dock, I go to the plex with 2 destroyers myself. They run, they come back with FOUR destroyers. This is "lol we only plex to get fights you ******" Minmatar militia.

Right now, I am docked in Lantorn, because they just had to send 4 destroyers and their "neutral" Loki to fight my Cormorant and my Thrasher.

Earlier today I was using the same 2 destroyers, when our old friend sasawong appeared in system. He was using the exact same 2 ships. He didn't want to fight in the minor plex, he went for a medium instead. And switched to a Gila. Because you know, a "good fight" is one when you have Gila, Thrasher and medium NPCs against 2 destroyers.

http://a7th.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13368686

Same story every day.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#11 - 2012-05-14 17:19:27 UTC
I am not in favor of ecm being nerfed in general but I do think that in the small scale combat that plexes are supposed to deliver it is stupidly overpowered. One multispecced griffin can perma jam a drake. So yeah in sum the op is right.

I propose that we just temper this by having the plex give a huge sensor strength bonus to all the ships of that race. So a caldari plex would give a huge gravimetric bonus etc.

Here is another thread where I discuss this idea.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1265868#post1265868

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#12 - 2012-05-14 17:52:27 UTC
ECM mechanic as a whole needs to be looked at. Stun locks have no place in a multi-player game.
Ramon Sohei
The Florez Law Firm
#13 - 2012-05-14 17:52:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramon Sohei
Quote:
One multispecced griffin can perma jam a drake


The Drake has drones to kill the multispecced Griffin. So this argument is invalid.
Now, many people fly Hornet ECM drones in their battlecruisers. If so, then that's their fault and deserve to get jammed. =)

Lesson: Use your combat drones.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#14 - 2012-05-14 18:48:56 UTC
Quit flying low sensor strength (Minmatar) frigates. Fly Gallente (higher sensor strength, drones) or Caldari (highest SS, f.o.f missiles) instead.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#15 - 2012-05-14 18:50:07 UTC
Ramon Sohei wrote:
Quote:
One multispecced griffin can perma jam a drake


The Drake has drones to kill the multispecced Griffin. So this argument is invalid.
Now, many people fly Hornet ECM drones in their battlecruisers. If so, then that's their fault and deserve to get jammed. =)

Lesson: Use your combat drones.



If only the drake could target the griffin faster than griffin could target the drake.

experience taught me that griffins tend not to show up right away. They tend to come after you are already fighting someone in the plex.





Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#16 - 2012-05-14 18:56:57 UTC
Cearain wrote:
If only the drake could target the griffin faster than griffin could target the drake.

experience taught me that griffins tend not to show up right away. They tend to come after you are already fighting someone in the plex.
So, what else is the drake fighting that this is a problem? All it has to do for the most part is switch to f.o.f missles and sequentially run its opponents out of the plex.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#17 - 2012-05-14 18:58:13 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Quit flying low sensor strength (Minmatar) frigates. Fly Gallente (higher sensor strength, drones) or Caldari (highest SS, f.o.f missiles) instead.




A drake is caldari.

FOF missiles. I admit i don't know much about them. I tend to hate switching ammo during combat. Lets say I am tackled by an af and a griffin is 50 km away jamming me.

Will the missiles hit the closer ship - the af? How long will it take to kill an assault frigate with heavy missile fofs when you can't web it because you are jammed?

I will chose the af plus girffin personally. Again, to me, that just shows ecm is overpowered in these plex battles.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#18 - 2012-05-14 19:01:34 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
If only the drake could target the griffin faster than griffin could target the drake.

experience taught me that griffins tend not to show up right away. They tend to come after you are already fighting someone in the plex.
So, what else is the drake fighting that this is a problem? All it has to do for the most part is switch to f.o.f missles and sequentially run its opponents out of the plex.



I gave the example of an af and griffin above.

But what about rats? Will the fof start shooting rats before they even go after the war targets?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#19 - 2012-05-14 19:18:09 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Cearain wrote:
I gave the example of an af and griffin above.
Can't ab fit AFs with reppers take down (or at least perma-tackle) a drake anyways?

My experience is that griffins in plexes are pretty much dead meat, but I fly Gallente with drones or sniper cormorants most of the time.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#20 - 2012-05-14 19:22:03 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
ECM mechanic as a whole needs to be looked at. Stun locks have no place in a multi-player game.



I tend to disagree. I think ECM is what makes caldari somewhat balanced as a race. I also think ecm is good in that it gives you the ability to fight when outnumbered. However, for the extremely small scale combat we often see in plexes it is just overpowered.

By putting a bit of a leash on it for faction war it will make faction war much more attractive to the small scale pvpers I personally would like to see more of.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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