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Let carebears be carebears (PVP Opt Out)
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Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-05-14 06:20:26 UTC
As someone a couple posts above me said, there *is* a place you can do exactly what you're talking about. It's the test server. You're forgiven for not knowing about it, it's not really a mainstream feature of the game.

Let me lay out the things that might interest you:
-There is only one system in which people are allowed to shoot at you without your permission. Even there, they can't do it on station or on gate.
-Just in case you do lose a ship, you can buy nearly every ship or module for 100 isk very nearly everywhere. Some of the faction stuff isn't seeded.
-If you participate in mass tests, they even give you free skillpoints!

Enjoy it.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Arwen Tyler
Oyonata Gate Defence Force.
#82 - 2012-05-14 08:08:17 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Nice try but wrong. For one, concord will attack repeat offenders. If they are below a certain sec level they are attack on site and their shop can get blown up. But also, which. IMO is good, concord is not all omnipotent. They can be outrun, they are not everywhere at all times. Working as intended IMO.

Again, the issue of what you propose is that it would break the sandbox. If you cannot figure out how it would, debating this topic becomes moot.



Totally wrong, Concord kills you only when the GCC is in effect, they can't be outrun, they are omnipotent, you mixing it up with the faction police.

But any issue about Concord and ganking is nothing to do with pvp, shooting someone and getting the kill before they wtfpwn you is just working out how much damage you need to put on you're target before Concord takes you out, should be called player vs e-fit, on a related note wonder how much crying there would be from gankers if getting concorded generated a loss mail......
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2012-05-14 09:18:44 UTC
I want to always kill and never die.

Yet, I always die.

What happened to EVE being a sandbox where you can do what you want?

There should be an opt out for dying so that I can never die and play the game how I want.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-05-14 12:30:54 UTC
Arwen Tyler wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Nice try but wrong. For one, concord will attack repeat offenders. If they are below a certain sec level they are attack on site and their shop can get blown up. But also, which. IMO is good, concord is not all omnipotent. They can be outrun, they are not everywhere at all times. Working as intended IMO.

Again, the issue of what you propose is that it would break the sandbox. If you cannot figure out how it would, debating this topic becomes moot.



Totally wrong, Concord kills you only when the GCC is in effect, they can't be outrun, they are omnipotent, you mixing it up with the faction police.

But any issue about Concord and ganking is nothing to do with pvp, shooting someone and getting the kill before they wtfpwn you is just working out how much damage you need to put on you're target before Concord takes you out, should be called player vs e-fit, on a related note wonder how much crying there would be from gankers if getting concorded generated a loss mail......


Who cares? You missed the entire point. Regardless of it being Concord or the faction police, the point is the game has a police force, similar to real life. EVE's police force is way faster and better, but they are still not perfect. They are not everywhere at all times.

And no Concord is not omnipotent. If they were they would strike you down without needing to warp to you first.

CCP could have put some mechanicl in the game if they wanted, like an auto kill switch. You fire on someone in HS and you get instapopped. But they didn't they built this elaborate system of NPC police instead, which specifically makes HS "safer" while not being "safe".
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#85 - 2012-05-14 14:25:28 UTC
You can opt out of combat PVP when I can opt out of market PVP.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2012-05-14 14:28:48 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
There is an opt out, it's called station spinning.
As soon as you hit the undock button, you are agreeing to PVP

you mean "Eve is a sandbox" is a lie?Shocked

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Roderick Grey
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2012-05-14 15:17:31 UTC
Firstly, how could killing carebears be considered pvp? After all, they typically have neither the means nor the will to fight back.

Let's just make sure we set the record straight and call it what it really is: griefing.

Now, I personally do not partake in griefing myself, but if people want I don't see why CCP should stop them, especially in a sandbox-like game like Eve.

I don't see why we should change the game because certain players refuse to adapt, yeah, you may enjoy pve, but there does come a time where you will need to defend yourself/system/'corp-mate/etc, just like some pvpers, including myself have to Pve sometimes to make money. I don't enjoy Pve, it saps up time and SP, but I've gotta do it, that's Eve.

I'm sure many players would love the novelty of owning there own corp, however there are certain responsibilities that come with corp ownership, one of them is having the means to defend yourself, if you lack that then you should probably stay in an NPC corp.

What are you really missing out on by being in an NPC corp? if those 5 people want to play together, they still can.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Calfis
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2012-05-14 16:35:02 UTC
Five Thirty wrote:
Sugar Kyle wrote:
Non consensual PVP is not griefing. Just because you do not like or want it does not mean it is grief. This is a game where everyone can interact with you in positive and negitive ways. It is a game where your choice matters. Because.you chose to avoid and not learn to pvp does not make PVP towards you an act of grief.


No, you are flat out wrong. It IS griefing. The only reason for high sec wardecs is to cause grief and get easy kills. It's pure schadenfreude.



I actually thought schadenfreude was a main selling point P

Think about some of the most popular stories about EVE and how many people enjoy reading em. For better or worst schadenfreude is a part of EVE and people celebrate it as long as it was not "them" as the victim. Blink
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#89 - 2012-05-14 17:01:12 UTC
AxelFuller wrote:

What happened to Eve being a Sandbox allowing players to choose what they want to do.

.


Some players choose to kill people that wants to opt out from PVP

You see what i did here ???
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#90 - 2012-05-14 18:47:00 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Linda Shadowborn wrote:
Tbh i dont think the new wardec system will change all that much, there are at the moment already tons of wardecs against corps that cant defend themselves. Just so some highsec leet pvper can pad his killboard with t1 industrials..

We will still have that after the change and i doubt we will see a huge increase. Dont want to get wardeced? Keep your corp in a quiet area of space, dont mouth off in local and dont act all internet badass on the forums.. And you are relatively safe.



I didn't know there was leet high sec pvpers. I learn something every day.


sarcasm my dear.. sarcasm
Immortis Vexx
Onyx Moon Industries
#91 - 2012-05-14 19:20:39 UTC
Threads like this make me sick. Historically I have sided with the "carebears" in saying that the griefing had hit an unsustainable level. However, it's garbage like this that makes me believe that you are all entitled little brats. I suck at PVP (and I got a horrible killboard to prove it; no don't look, it's bad!) but I still go out and fly ships and take a modicum of risk to get business done. I am slowly growing to HATE the crowd that calls for this kind of action; and every time I find myself agreeing with something Psychotic Monk says, my soul dies a little.


The truth is that EVE is not YOUR sandbox. Grow up, stop whining, and just play the damn game as it is.

Vexx
Haulie Berry
#92 - 2012-05-14 19:37:48 UTC
AxelFuller wrote:

3. I don't want to take part in PVP so i live in hisec
4. Just let me play the game how i like to play it and leave me alone


Here's the problem, really.

Re: 3 - It's been explicitly stated that high-sec is not "no pvp". It is more accurately read, "relatively high security".

Re: 4 - Your playing the game has an impact on the rest of the game, therefor the rest of the game must be allowed to have an impact on you.

If you want to play in a walled garden, try a single player game.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#93 - 2012-05-14 19:53:33 UTC
While I agree that the war dec system is highly flawed, I disagree with your suggestions.

It is called 'high security' not 'absolute' security.

The element of danger is what makes this game so interesting for me. And I speak as an industrialist, not a PVPer.

The dynamic economy of the game would be unhinged if there was a 'class' of players who were PVP immune... you would be better off having a PVE server...

But doing that would defeat the very thing that makes EVE special. This game is great BECAUSE you mix the PVP gankers with the PVE carebears, with each having an impact on the other.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#94 - 2012-05-14 20:03:18 UTC
AxelFuller wrote:
Aphos Starslicer wrote:
It's just not that kind of game. Sorry.


Hmm its a sandbox, exactly what kind of game is it not? lol

Sandbox by definition is a game which allows as much freedom to its player base to choose a game style which suits them and entertains there own desires.


The problem is that this definition omits a key part. "...own desires within the confines of the game's rules"

This is a key fact people tend to overlook. Yes this is a sandbox, but you can't go race cars. The game rules prevent that because there are no cars. You can't raise pets because the mechanics are not in place.

You also can't opt out of pvp because of the rules of the game. You chose to play a game where the rules allow others to attack you at will. There are consequences, but those are the rules. You chose to play this game, you chose to play in this sandbox, and guess what, that means pvp can happen. It is part if the rules. If you don't like it, go play in a different sandbox.
Gul'gotha Derv'ash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2012-05-14 22:38:43 UTC
There is no point in arguing any type of PvE improvements on the forums. The majority of the players that come here are the PvP/null/low sec people. This has been, and will always be the main problem with Eve. The PVE/casual players aren't vocal and don't come to the forums most of the time. That is why the CSM is occupied by people pushing the Null/low sec agenda like it has been for the past 6 years.
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-05-15 07:50:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Plaude Pollard
I haven't had any problems with Wardecs so far. The only times I've tried being wardecced on my two other accounts, there were other things going on outside of EVE anyway. First time, I had an exam coming up, second time was when Assassin's Creed Revelations came out, so I had something else to think about both times.

Besides, EVE isn't the kind of game where you can choose to partake in only certain types of activities. PvP is unavoidable in EVE, even for carebears. It never has been, it never will be and it never should be. Once EVE becomes that kind of game, it will become dull and boring for everyone. That, and the prices for various ships will drop a lot, since there aren't going to be destroyed a lot of ships and thus there won't be a market for them.

New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of _**your **_choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#97 - 2012-05-15 08:26:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Rel'k Bloodlor
Sigh....................ok EVERY THING in this game is PvP
run lvl 4 missions? how you you price your LP and drops? is it based on what others do? is it competitive?
Mine ice in hi-sec? how do you price your ice? is it based off other players? is it competitive?
ect ect

your always in opposition with other players.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
TotalRapeage
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2012-05-15 08:50:44 UTC
AxelFuller wrote:
With the new War Dec mechanics it seems like there is no consideration to players who wish to take part in PVE activity only.

It would appear the only option available to none PVP type players is to stay in an NPC corp or join a large enough Corp which is unlikely to get War Dec'ed because of the cost.

What happened to Eve being a Sandbox allowing players to choose what they want to do.

A typical PVE player example which is no longer possible

1. I want to play Eve for fun and be a carebear
2. I want to run my own corp for me and my buddies
3. I don't want to take part in PVP so i live in hisec
4. Just let me play the game how i like to play it and leave me alone

It seems with the new War Dec mechanics players who want to run small scale corps for fun and carebear activities are now going to be extorted indefinately by PVP gangs. Misions runner corps, Minign Corps, Incursion Corps, ect will now be prime targets for small scale PVP gangs to extort leaving the carebeasr with no option but to return to NPC corps and ultimately bring an end to the player run corp's for PVE activities.

Before all the PVPers rage that a carebear shouldn't be safe, please hold that rage for another thread and debate... carebears pay there subscription like everyone else and should be allowed to play the game as they wish without being constantly griefed by other players which is basically what the new war dec mechanics will bring and the only way to avoid that is to be in an NPC corp where you can't gain the same control with your buddies from having your own corp.

How about an opt out of PVP option, is it really that important that eve becomes a completely PVP based game where carebears and new comers can't avoid being targetted and killed?

The argument that a carebear can stay in an NPC corp is flawed becuase that carebear might want to run a 5 man corp with himself and his RL friends, so they can meet up chare a corp experience and do the things together they liek to do in Eve, simply saying to those guys right you now have to go and join an NPC corp to be safe is a little unbalanced in favour of the PVPers as that same 5 man corp will disband, join NPC corps and miss out on all teh features which were available to them in a small corp such as sharing hisec POS rights, corp management roles and leaders.

Finally this may sound liek a big carebear crying but i'm simply trying to work out how this new mechanic will be balanced in favour of all players rather than just those PVP corps who will now be able to grief carebears and extort them which is a little unfair considering they pay to play a game we all share.




Opt out by not logging into a pvp game.
Sutskop
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2012-05-15 10:47:30 UTC
AxelFuller wrote:
leaving the carebeasr with no option but to return to NPC corps and ultimately bring an end to the player run corp's for PVE activities.


Another option would be to actually fight for your right to grind away in peace. Most griefers won't come back after losing one or two ships to "carebears". Now doesn't that sound much more like an exciting sandbox? And do you realize how you provide every argument to call you a weak whiner?
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#100 - 2012-05-15 10:54:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Rel'k Bloodlor
New plan
if you hate PvP tho you are buy defalt doing it (see my above post/you drive down prices)

Then you fallow the steps here and play super care bear till your eyes bleed.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats.