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@CCP: Extrinsic Damage Amplifier Balancing

First post
Author
LaserzPewPew
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#161 - 2012-05-11 23:06:11 UTC  |  Edited by: LaserzPewPew
Kahega Amielden wrote:
It is not even remotely close to that simple. If the droneboat pilot is competent he will be pulling in drones that take damage. It's pretty damn hard to kill drones in that situation. The ability to drop smaller-sized drones on ships that would otherwise avoid your primary damage is an incredible boost.

Also, droneships don't lose their primary damage when jammed. They can't be tracking-disrupted (after Inferno, drones will be the only weapon system effectively immune to TDs).

...And droneships still have guns. Even bonused guns in most cases. The Domi already dumps out good DPS with blasters.




And what is it called when you stick 5-6 CPU intensive damage mods, a full rack of blasters, and heavy drones? Oh, that's right. A glass cannon. The shortest ranged, lowest tracking, zero tank, no neuting domi. It would be a laughing stock on a killboard for being utterly terrible.

Any conventional battleship, battlecruiser, or hac will wipe the floor with it.

In other news, when was the last time a domi put blasters on for pvp? Domis put RR and neuts in their highs. If they don't, #shitfit
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2012-05-11 23:15:36 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
It is not even remotely close to that simple. If the droneboat pilot is competent he will be pulling in drones that take damage. It's pretty damn hard to kill drones in that situation. The ability to drop smaller-sized drones on ships that would otherwise avoid your primary damage is an incredible boost.

Also, droneships don't lose their primary damage when jammed. They can't be tracking-disrupted (after Inferno, drones will be the only weapon system effectively immune to TDs).

...And droneships still have guns. Even bonused guns in most cases. The Domi already dumps out good DPS with blasters.


And if you gave that drone ship the ability to use 10 drones via drone control unit, they would never fit guns on there ship at all. Also drones can be jammed, fastest way is the ecm burst.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Tankn00blicus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#163 - 2012-05-11 23:22:32 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
...And droneships still have guns. Even bonused guns in most cases. The Domi already dumps out good DPS with blasters.
By this logic, Khanid and Sansha pre-2.0 were better than they are now.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#164 - 2012-05-12 15:12:14 UTC
Soo, with just over a week to go until the expansion, any changes to the module on SiSi? I have a sinking feeling it's going to go live with the crappy 12-15% bonus, written off as completed and be forgotten about like so many other things.
Tenga Halaris
Galactic Traders Union
#165 - 2012-05-12 15:54:18 UTC
looks like it...

No response on further changes so far...
Vaako Horizon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#166 - 2012-05-12 16:16:16 UTC
ofc that is the case... you all seem to forget its CCP we are talking about. Their "listening to the players" is nothing more then "lets *BEEP* em up"
Leto Artreides
Tyrfing Industries
#167 - 2012-05-12 21:27:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Artreides
Drones will do MAX 475 dps before dmg mods(Ogre's with Gallente spec V) without damage mods

A gunship can rather easily hit 600+ dps before dmg mods with cheap 3% hardwirings, and those dmg mods will affect all the ships dps(minus drones, which is minor on most gunships) and this is not counting the highest dmg ammo(only navy ammo) and these weapons can also overheat.

while a ship like Domi will be like Typhoon sort of, will need both dmg mods for drones and blasters for maximum dps, gimping it pretty hard in other locations so it will be fine if they're buffed to even 20-22%.

If damage of light drones will be a problem in ships bonused to drone damage like Domi with stacked damage mods, just reduce the effect they have on light drones, ships like Ishkur with proper fits won't be using them anyway due to magstabs being a better mod due to it's gun dps, so it's not that big of a problem.

People whining about carriers with 1500'ish sentry drone dps, that's with 5 DCU's and 4 lowslots sacrificed for sentry damage, this tradeoff is HUGE and I'd rather have proper fit carriers in my fleet imo.

If they're gonna be gimped/useless I'd rather not see them implemented tbh, don't need mods that aren't worth using.
Kitt JT
True North.
#168 - 2012-05-13 06:06:47 UTC
Well I for one am pleased with this. I want it most because I fly a pilgrim regularly. And no, heat sinks and lasors would not be better. PVP pilgrim fits neuts/nos. PVE pilgrim I use for scanning and running profession sites. Does everything in one. Probes, cloak, salvager, codebreaker, analyzer, tank, and damage.

This module is a godsend.
Leto Artreides
Tyrfing Industries
#169 - 2012-05-13 06:31:41 UTC
Kitt JT wrote:
Well I for one am pleased with this. I want it most because I fly a pilgrim regularly. And no, heat sinks and lasors would not be better. PVP pilgrim fits neuts/nos. PVE pilgrim I use for scanning and running profession sites. Does everything in one. Probes, cloak, salvager, codebreaker, analyzer, tank, and damage.

This module is a godsend.


5 bonused mediums vs 3 unbonused cruiser turrets on a ship that fits neuts/nos, ofcourse heatsinks are worse than drone damage mods then x_x

And if you fit your lows with damage mods on a Pilgrim(Esp more than one) you'll probably die horribly in a fire
MalVortex
Kaladan Interstellar
#170 - 2012-05-13 21:30:44 UTC
Kitt JT wrote:
Well I for one am pleased with this. I want it most because I fly a pilgrim regularly. And no, heat sinks and lasors would not be better. PVP pilgrim fits neuts/nos. PVE pilgrim I use for scanning and running profession sites. Does everything in one. Probes, cloak, salvager, codebreaker, analyzer, tank, and damage.

This module is a godsend.


A pilgrim gains more DPS from fitting a blaster than an EDA. You need two 15% EDAs to beat out the dps of a medium neutron blaster - and that's only if you are using Hammerheads. This is the equivalent of a rupture gaining more DPS from fitting a missile launcher than a gyrostabilizer.

The pilgrim isn't exactly rocking an overabundance of tank or spare slots. Fitting two EDA is possible, but its a tough sell on a ship with such a thin tank.

Of course I'm repeating myself again here - just how much "feedback" (using that term loosely) CCP wants before updating the module again? Who knows! It's not like Inferno launches in two weeks..
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#171 - 2012-05-14 04:22:18 UTC
Dedicated 10 drones sub-capital droneboats without hi-slot weapons, please. Light carriers.

Because right now the only ship where I can see this module in low slots without gimping tank into oblivion - it is Rattle. Meanwhile those 25km 400dpstotal torpedoes and Domi's blasters are useless like 80% of time in Caldari missions where 80% of battleship orbit at 35-60km.
Vaako Horizon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#172 - 2012-05-14 06:23:48 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Dedicated 10 drones sub-capital droneboats without hi-slot weapons, please. Light carriers.

Because right now the only ship where I can see this module in low slots without gimping tank into oblivion - it is Rattle. Meanwhile those 25km 400dpstotal torpedoes and Domi's blasters are useless like 80% of time in Caldari missions where 80% of battleship orbit at 35-60km.



not gimping the rattle? well that depends if you are running active or passive tanking ( I must admit I am a little overtanked on the passive part, 6x power shield relay II + 2x Large shield extender II + 1x shield recharger II + 3x large core defense field purger II = gives me 434 hps peak recharge )
Leto Artreides
Tyrfing Industries
#173 - 2012-05-14 09:24:12 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Dedicated 10 drones sub-capital droneboats without hi-slot weapons, please. Light carriers.

Because right now the only ship where I can see this module in low slots without gimping tank into oblivion - it is Rattle. Meanwhile those 25km 400dpstotal torpedoes and Domi's blasters are useless like 80% of time in Caldari missions where 80% of battleship orbit at 35-60km.


They are supposed to gimp your tank, you trade tank for gank, or gank for mobility/range(guns) if you shield tank

Leto Artreides
Tyrfing Industries
#174 - 2012-05-14 09:26:27 UTC
Vaako Horizon wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
Dedicated 10 drones sub-capital droneboats without hi-slot weapons, please. Light carriers.

Because right now the only ship where I can see this module in low slots without gimping tank into oblivion - it is Rattle. Meanwhile those 25km 400dpstotal torpedoes and Domi's blasters are useless like 80% of time in Caldari missions where 80% of battleship orbit at 35-60km.



not gimping the rattle? well that depends if you are running active or passive tanking ( I must admit I am a little overtanked on the passive part, 6x power shield relay II + 2x Large shield extender II + 1x shield recharger II + 3x large core defense field purger II = gives me 434 hps peak recharge )


I don't think you really need to be able to tank 3.5k dps, with 3 dmg mods you can still tank 1400 which is still more than enough to snooze through missions :z
Bent Barrel
#175 - 2012-05-14 09:44:32 UTC
Tankn00blicus wrote:
Bent Barrel wrote:
You know that that's just the dronebay config right ? 2 waves of Ogres and 2 waves of Hammers ...
2 waves of Ogres and 2 waves of Hobgoblins, actually. But if he wasn't planning on being able to use all 10 Ogres at once then why even bother with 5 DCU's? Being able to use 10 lights at once isn't a good enough reason to use 5 high slots on those.


afaik you cannot fit DCUs on subcaps :-) my bad ... looks like a dream fit which I'd agree to ... 10 sentries on a dominix would be hell of a mission ship.
Vaako Horizon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#176 - 2012-05-14 10:23:24 UTC
Leto Artreides wrote:
Vaako Horizon wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
Dedicated 10 drones sub-capital droneboats without hi-slot weapons, please. Light carriers.

Because right now the only ship where I can see this module in low slots without gimping tank into oblivion - it is Rattle. Meanwhile those 25km 400dpstotal torpedoes and Domi's blasters are useless like 80% of time in Caldari missions where 80% of battleship orbit at 35-60km.



not gimping the rattle? well that depends if you are running active or passive tanking ( I must admit I am a little overtanked on the passive part, 6x power shield relay II + 2x Large shield extender II + 1x shield recharger II + 3x large core defense field purger II = gives me 434 hps peak recharge )


I don't think you really need to be able to tank 3.5k dps, with 3 dmg mods you can still tank 1400 which is still more than enough to snooze through missions :z


I told ya I was a bit over tanked :D
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#177 - 2012-05-14 14:56:29 UTC
You know that drones do the same dps between 0 and [max-drone-controle-range] right ? A bit like missiles, but target speed don't reduce the dps (and for heavy drones speed, there is some interesting modules to adress it).

I'm not against more drone damage, but you should be careful with this ; though 12% for T2 and 40Tf is very careful I think, but even then I would take it.
TheButcherPete
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#178 - 2012-05-14 15:15:55 UTC
What happened to the t2 version getting a 15% boost?

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]

Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#179 - 2012-05-14 15:44:46 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
You know that drones do the same dps between 0 and [max-drone-controle-range] right ?


Are you sure? Because I see quite a large variety of damage done.

Also remember that even with mods and rigs, drones (especially heavies) are still significantly slower than missiles, they still use MWD to close the distance (which blows up their sig radius making them easy to hit), they still approach in a straight line making their relative transversal zero, and they can still be blown up.

I'm sorry, but even at 20-22% damage, I still don't see this module as overpowered for most in-game applications, drones would still have more than enough shortcomings to compensate.
Tankn00blicus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2012-05-14 16:45:11 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Also remember that even with mods and rigs, drones (especially heavies) are still significantly slower than missiles
Unless you cough up 3 mid slots for a few DNC II's. Then you have crackwarriors that go 12 km/s, which is fast enough to mess up the drone AI and make it unable to figure out when to shut off the MWD, thereby leaving it unable to hit your target or return to your drone bay and with a huge sig radius. Useful!!111