Ships & Modules

Here is an idea: Let the DD use charges that costs 800 mil ISK each. A DD should be expensive and not used lightly. If you can afford a Titan, you can afford the DD charge.

Added: We should probably also change the name from Doomsday Device to Super Smartbomb simply because naming a weapon something like "I WIN Device" seems a little wrong for Eve culture. I mean, what is the counter to an I WIN device? Eve is all about counters.. or at least, until the DD came along.

Most of the ships killed in that fight was killed by the sub caps, not the dreads, and they were probably not doing anything to avoid the them, like trying to consider transversal, and definitely didn't have any of the obvious counters, such as any type of ship with an AB instead of MWD or simply outranging the pulse/blaster fitted dreads. Ahacs produced similar results until people learned how to deal with them, and so did Hellcats VS the Drakes that were brought in to counter the ahacs.

???

What practical changes were made to dreadnoughts?

Dread tracking was doubled, making them blap titan tracking able.

We already tried to explain that, he doesn't understand the tracking mechanics.

Haven't visited this thread in a while.

Glad to see great big giant e-peen tears are still flowing like wine

Yes, but the effect of the doubled tracking is mitiagated by the doubled signature resolution. It's integral factor of tracking speed of the guns, angular velocity of the target and their signatures.

I don't want to speculate upon the formula. If you refuse to believe its integral, go check yourself:

1. Get a target ship and a shooter. Set the target ship orbiting the shooter. Logistics needed for prolonged tests.
2. Get some webs and painters. You will need a single Statis Webifier I and a Phased Weapon Navigation / T2 painter on a rapier (assuming you have Signature Focusing IV). You got the idea: –50% speed and +50% signature.
3. Web the target, shoot it for two-three minutes.
4. Take off the webs, paint it, shoot again.
5. Go to %My Documents%/EVE/logs/Gamelogs, look here for a relevant log file. Extract the data with dealt damage, compare distibutions. If they do differ significantly, they you can really say that the formula is crap.


I'm not saying it's right to have signature resolution mitigated by range, but it was so before the patch, and it is so after the patch. Nothing has changed effectively. My damn old eft says a revelation with 1 TE, 1 TC and 2 target painters could easily hit a battleship which is 40 km away for 4k DPS with a maximum transversal (up to 7k if is low). Before the patch. Blapping? Yeah. The patch only brought the attention to dreads, and people realized that they actually could blap stuff even without the titans. So yeah, you could say the patch boosted the dreads effectively (in terms of damage done by all the dreads in the universe).

Looks to me that Dreads still don't get used as much as people think. Titans can make short work of one with a DD or two. Considering how hotdrops are so common against regular caps, I would be hesitant to use a Dread unless its in a cyno jammed system.

Dreads will never become the Blapping ships that pre-patch Titans once were.

1. They have a clear counter - Titans and Supercarriers - Insta one hit kill by doomsdays(or severely weakened and killed within a few shots of the turrets.)

2. Two(tech 1 Triage)/ Three(tech2 Triage locking limitation) and puny scan resolution 20-30 with sensor boosters. It takes 40 seconds to lock a battleships, 2 minutes to lock a cruiser, and a thousand years to lock a frig.

- Titans do not have this penalty and can easily lock targets much more quickly.

3. Dread Tracking is nothing compared with Pre-patch titan tracking, you can't afford to put faction or officer tracking computers and enhancers like you can on titans. Dread tracking is 50% of Prepatch Titan Tracking.

4. Using Drugs seriously hurt dreads more than titans. Drop booster has penalty to Armor Repairers which Dreads need to try to survive for 5 minutes.

5. Requires much more attention, specialized ship types, etc to actually hit subcaps. Unlike Pre-Patch titans which would just lock and pop subcaps, Dreads need webbing and painting ships(titans do now too) to even hit smaller ships. This takes time and coordination to web and paint the targets and then have the Dreads hit them. You'll need rapiers, lokis, vigilants, vindicators, specialized webbing and painting ships with the pilots that can use them to properly use a Dread. It is NOT a SOLOPWNMOBILE, it is a ship at truly requires teamwork and support to do anything outside of POS bashing.

6. Dreads EHP is low enough to be alpha striked by a fleet in a trivial manner even without Titans. 100 Maelstroms or Tornados can alpha strike a Dread in 2 volleys.

7. Active tanking is pretty much what the Dread relies on to survive, it cannot receive any assistance or RR in Siege for 5 full minutes. A dread can tank 5000- to maybe 10,000 Dps(burst shield tank). A single Dread or a gang of Battleships is enough to break the tank. A dread can get 4 million EHP at most(with Slave set and without stupidly putting officer mods.) A titan and Supercarrier can reach 40+ million EHP.






In all Dreads will never become the blapping ships that people fear them to be due to:

1. The Existence of SuperCaps. I wouldn't want to field a dread only to have it killed in the blink of an eye by a titan. 2 Billion Isk without fittings is a high price to pay to be insta popped.

2. How quickly it can pop subcaps is limited by long locking time with limited locks and Its reliance on having subcap support web and paint targets in an orderly fashion(does not work very well with lag).

The rate at which a Dread kills can easily be matched and surpassed by a gang of DPS battleships, without the limitations and weaknesses.

3. Much lower survival and staying power compared to Supercapital Ships. No RR for 5 Minutes, has only 10% of the HP as Supercapital ships.

In large scale 0.0 PVP you are much better off using a Gang of Battleship than a Dread. Greater versatility, lower costs, more BS pilots than Dread pilots easily, greater mobility, and less vulnerable to prevalent Supercaps.

Titan change .. let's see .. remove the ability of a Titan or SC to jump. That about balances them. Since the jump drive creates mini-whs, and since no natural wh can accommodate the mass of a supercapital ship (incl. Titan) for a single ship anyway, then the jump drive certainly shouldn't be able to make whs capable of jumping ships with more mass. The addition of a new module, Hyperspace drive medium slot module, would enable Titans and supers and other ships to move between systems using hyper space travel mechanics. It would take a few minutes and put the ships on known celestials or other known points in the target system.

Edit: That is what I have been trying to say, Down. (see post below) CCP has been actively ignoring me on that subject thus proving that they are committed to "fix" the Titan in the manner which they have already decided and are not open to other approaches or ways of thinking about the issues and problems.

Its hard to take you seriously when you ***** like little pussy. You say things like players exploiting and other stuff, but you don't really elaborate how its exploiting. Tracking Computers, Webs, etc are all part of game mechanics. You saying those are exploits and that we should do away with them?

If this changes encourages players to use these more, I don't see the problem. These are not broken or overpowered compared to some other things within the game.

Sig resolution and Sig radius does indeed make a difference. Any angular velocity is multiplied by Sig resolution/sig radius. Therefore your actual tracking to your target is not the tracking shown on the gun, there is math involved, which you don't clearly understand.

As for the matter of being further away makes it easier to track and hit you. It infact does apply in real life as well. Take your arm and outstretch it and move your inner arm, an inch. Now measure the amount of distance moved by your finger tips, you'll see it moved about half a foot. A turret in real life will track at targets better further away than ones that are closer, since it requires less movement of the turret to align to the direction of the target.

Now accuracy is another matter. The further the target is the harder it becomes to hit it. This accuracy is known in eve as optimal range and falloff. The computer is able to accurately track and hit targets effectively up to a certain distance. After beyond that distance inaccuracy starts to become a factor (known as falloff). The design of the gun also factors in.

Accuracy based on range (Optimal and Falloff). Therefore we do indeed have this accuracy we speak off.

Also remember, it is computers and machines that coordinate the shooting, not humans.


Besides if you want to argue about realistic then let see you argue this:

Imagine a maelstrom shooting a rifter with 1400mm artillery cannons. Let say that the rifter pilot was a moron and the maelstrom pilot got luck at managed to hit the rifter with a shell.

Now imagine a spacecraft the size of a 747 being hit with a explosive armor piercing shell the size of volkswagon hit your vehicle going at over several kilometers per second. I doubt you'll have an intact rifter after be grazed by a single shot of an 1400mm artillery shell.

But with mechanics of proposed sig radius and signature resolution affecting damage that would not happen which is unrealistic in itself.

How disappointing that PL has a moron in you within their ranks. Go ahead and ***** some more, let see you embarrass yourself and your alliance even further.