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Did anyone try the Diablo 3 beta this weekend? If so......

Author
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#61 - 2012-04-27 01:54:39 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Alrione wrote:
Dumbed down skill system is boring and rigid


I really don't see why people keep repeating this, because it's just not true. I don't know about every game in the genre, but Diablo 3's skill system is WAY more complex than Diablo 2's.


Dunno maybe its a personal preference thing you dont agree with?
that "opinion" thing thats true for them but obviouslt for got you?

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game

Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#62 - 2012-04-27 01:59:21 UTC
Dray wrote:
Alrione wrote:
Didnt like it at all and it looks poor. Dumbed down skill system is boring and rigid and it just feels odd. Going to keep playing Titan Quest/Sacred 2 untill Grim Dawn comes out.
If D3 had a price of Torchlight then it would of been ok.


It just seems dumbed down because it doesn't have the amount of skills you were offered in Diablo 2, which if we're honest most were ignored in favour cookie cutter setups, Necro's with skeletons and blood golems, groups of Paladins doing boss runs with healing auras etc.

D III is offering a less cumbersome and actually more interesting choose on the fly system which I think is going to work very well, of course it's all subjective but I've been playing the beta for a few weeks now and I'm still playing D2, I like it and that's why I've jumped in and pre-ordered.

As for you Alpheis you were told repeatedly how crap SWTOR was going to be but you still bought and played it, before finally realizing what we'd all told you.

YOU CANNOT HAZ OPINION. ;P


Technically I was in the beta for SWTOR (funnily enough when I saw what it was and the resistance to noting bugsa in the community I left and reactivated my WoW account) AND still went and bought it (and shortly thereafter reactivated my WoW account on the basis of it was WoW and if I was gonna play WoW... well Ill play WoW).

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game

VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2012-04-27 06:32:00 UTC  |  Edited by: VKhaun Vex
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Alrione wrote:
Dumbed down skill system is boring and rigid


I really don't see why people keep repeating this, because it's just not true. I don't know about every game in the genre, but Diablo 3's skill system is WAY more complex than Diablo 2's.


Dunno maybe its a personal preference thing you dont agree with?
that "opinion" thing thats true for them but obviouslt for got you?


Dumbing down is not an opinion.
Either it is or it isn't dumbed down.
In this case Merin is quite right; it isn't.

I DO know about the major games in this genre and D3 is near the top. I have not personally played the one with the FF7 materia rip off for their skills system so I can't say D3 is better, but D3 is certainly head and shoulders above D2, TQ, and Torchlight.

You can have an argument for personal preference about being able to CHANGE your spec if you think a fixed spec with/without rare respecs is better, but you couldn't take a low opinion of that flexibility all the way to justifying a conclusion that it hurt the game because once again, either it does or it doesn't, and it doesn't because it doesn't TAKE gameplay away it only adds it. Nothing forces you to change your spec. (Yes you get new skills as you level up, but you used prerequisite skills on the way leveling up in the other ARPG's, too.)

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch

Klown Walk
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-04-27 10:49:15 UTC
Someone will find the perfect skill build for each class and everyone will use it, like WoW because they have access to all skills. There is no way to be unique anymore unlike D2 where you had atleast 3-4 skill builds for each class with diffrent gear, thats the main reason why I don´t want to play. Doesn´t seem as dark as D1/D2 either.
VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2012-04-27 11:27:19 UTC
Klown Walk wrote:
Someone will find the perfect skill build for each class and everyone will use it, like WoW because they have access to all skills. There is no way to be unique anymore unlike D2 where you had atleast 3-4 skill builds for each class with diffrent gear, thats the main reason why I don´t want to play.


1) D2 did -NOT- have any 3-4 skill builds for each class that worked on hell. They may have had 3-4 builds that were specialists like MF sorcs that only had to kill meph and pindle... or 3-4 builds that sounded good then couldn't beat the damn blood moor. Even most of the builds people said were godly could never actually be played. They had to be power leveled and handed the rarest gear to go fight in Hell.

2) Nonsense anyway because you make a build in D3 based on how you want to play it, not how the numbers look on paper. The different skills have only small damage differences, but they're different shapes. Cones, slow heavy, fast focused, etc. Considering it's an ARPG not an MMORPG that's an improvement. Hell even MMORPG players want more of that in their MMORPGs.

3) Remember: Synergies were added to D2 later to FIX a **** skill system that left behind useless skills that some people liked.
What if you WANTED to play an inferno sorceress or you LIKED spamming the screen with charged bolts? What if your necro liked poison dagger for big stuff? Too bad, those skills suck, but you have to put points in them anyway. This was never meant to be an actual skill system, it was an attempt to fix one they realized was bad later. Being able to use any of the skills in the game, all game, is an improvement not a step backwards.

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch

Alrione
Black Lagoon Inc.
#66 - 2012-04-29 16:52:26 UTC
Dray wrote:
Alrione wrote:
Didnt like it at all and it looks poor. Dumbed down skill system is boring and rigid and it just feels odd. Going to keep playing Titan Quest/Sacred 2 untill Grim Dawn comes out.
If D3 had a price of Torchlight then it would of been ok.


It just seems dumbed down because it doesn't have the amount of skills you were offered in Diablo 2, which if we're honest most were ignored in favour cookie cutter setups, Necro's with skeletons and blood golems, groups of Paladins doing boss runs with healing auras etc.

D III is offering a less cumbersome and actually more interesting choose on the fly system which I think is going to work very well, of course it's all subjective but I've been playing the beta for a few weeks now and I'm still playing D2, I like it and that's why I've jumped in and pre-ordered.


And this lack of decision making is what makes game feel dumb, there is no way to mess up, there is no reward for figuring out stat/skill combo that works well. You just "lol i instaswitch" which is pandering to adhd gamer of today so much it might as well have button that brings you game end.

Im sure some like being led by hand all the time, but thats why they going to love D3 while I will keep not liking it and play other arpg's.
Gorenaire
Theosophical Society
#67 - 2012-04-29 20:27:17 UTC
is it a challenging game or is it a mindless hack 'nd slash ? Just saw a few videos about this game and remembered me the dumbing own of WoW /
Just Lilly
#68 - 2012-05-08 01:29:24 UTC
One week to go!

Pretty much everyone I know that are into computergaming have pre-ordered the game.
A handfull of people at work even took next week off in order to sit down and play at launch.

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Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-05-08 04:50:44 UTC
In related news, and kind of being a **** here, Torchlight 2 is out for preorder. It is made by the guys who made D1 and D2 and looks legit awesome.

Hello, hello again.

Reldor Silverheart
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2012-05-08 11:36:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Reldor Silverheart
Personally i am getting torchlight 2 myself, the studio is not as big, but seriously, it has parts of the original team that was Blizzard of the north. I loved D1 and D2, i'll give a few reasons and then compare to d3.

Story
The story in d1 and d2 did not feel forced, yet it had a quite interestin depht to things, it was linear sure but it was dark and grim aswell. When i played d3 it just felt like they were trying to shove the story in my face, it did not hook me, and i know it was just the initial part, but that's what's worse. If they focus that much on the story this time around it needs to be properly introduced and not feel like a third wheel.

Aesthetics
Using this instead of Graphics because i feel it explains it better, while the graphics wasn't overly advanced in d1 and d2, they had really nice aestethics. And gave you a really grim and gloomy feeling. It also had alot of contrast and variaton, and it did not really feel cartoony either. The aestethics in d3 just felt weird and out of place, it did not give me a dark or gloomy feeling at all, it made me feel undewhelmed, aswell as the explosions they so promised left me underwhelmed. This is just my personal opinion, but think they took a step back aestehics wise in this game.

A sidenote here, i know that Torchlight 2 looks cartoony aswell, but in that setting they are trying to portray it actually works, but it still feels dark and gloomy, from what i have been able to see at least.

Classes/skill system
The classes feels allright in D3 to be fair, neither really better or worse than d1 or d2 did it. And i don't really think being able to customize your character is that important to up the score. The skills in d3 feels anemic tho (See above) the explosions and stuff left me much to wish for, and i had my graphics at max. Perhaps it gets better in the later stuff, i don't know.

The skill system feels anemic aswell, while i find it great that you don't have to try different builds anymore, it also removes some of the fun that was d2, d1 was more experimenting with stats and so on. I don't mind the skill system in D3, but i do miss the stat points system where you could customize your class however you wanted.

Gameplay
The gameplay feels weird in d3, story doesn't fit in, some of the voice actors sounds really odd, for example the male barbarian sounds like kratos, while i love kratos as a character, i'm not sure if it does fit in this setting with that voice. Gameplay feels anemic aswell, monsters are allright, nothing of it really sticks out yet tho, even if it was just a short beta. The maps feels way to linear, both D1 and D2 was linear, but nothing like this, here essentially the sidepath just takes you to a hidden stash or somesuch like that.

Also, D3 might have automatic gold pickups etc, but is by no means special for doing so. Also the crafting system in it just feels tacked on.

The thing is, despite all that's been said. I don't think D3 is a bad game, i just don't think it's worth the 60 bucks when i personally feel i will get a better experience out of a 20 dollar game (Torchlight 2).
NeoShocker
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#71 - 2012-05-08 16:51:38 UTC
Well, I ordered Diablo 3. For good or bad. Games are fun when you have friends and relatives to play with, which I have plenty of. So. I'm sure I will have fun.

Blizzard is a good company, despite being owned (or joint? Forgot) by activision.

BTW, looking to obtain a legit serial key of Lord of Destruction. Please evemail me if you got an unused serial key.
Just Lilly
#72 - 2012-05-08 22:12:03 UTC

Torchlight 2 will be awsome, it's on the list of games to acquire for sure Cool

But first things first, Daihabloh!
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#73 - 2012-05-09 00:28:22 UTC
Reldor Silverheart wrote:
When i played d3 it just felt like they were trying to shove the story in my face, it did not hook me, and i know it was just the initial part, but that's what's worse.


I guess everyone has their own opinion, but it didn't seem like Diablo 3 really had more "forcing" of the story than the previous games did. Sure, you had an NPC follow you occasionally (something you probably would've had in D2 if the engine had allowed it), but all the rest was just dialogue boxes you could ignore just like D2 had dialogue boxes you could ignore (or read if you cared).

Quote:
I don't mind the skill system in D3, but i do miss the stat points system where you could customize your class however you wanted.


See, that would have been a much more valid complaint if Diablo 2 had actually allowed any REAL customization instead of just cookie-cutter stat builds that everyone who wanted to solo Hell used. I'm not really sad that they got rid of the illusion of choice (and opportunity for newbies to ruin their character) and just give you the cookie-cutter stats automatically.

Quote:
The maps feels way to linear, both D1 and D2 was linear, but nothing like this, here essentially the sidepath just takes you to a hidden stash or somesuch like that.


I think your memories of D2 are kind of corrupted by nostalgia here. Diablo 2 was completely linear, you went from point A to point B to point C, preferably with maphack and teleport. Sure, you had some big open spaces, but there was nothing to discover, just lots of wandering around in the exact same copy/pasted scenery until you find the exit to the next area. You rarely, if ever, had any goal in mind besides "get to point B as fast as possible", or any reason to take a path that didn't go to point B once you knew where point B was.

Now, that's not to say that Diablo 3 isn't linear, but people seem to really forget just how linear Diablo 2 was.
NeoShocker
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#74 - 2012-05-09 05:20:41 UTC
I'll just leave it here and here.
VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2012-05-09 06:50:17 UTC
Alrione wrote:

And this lack of decision making is what makes game feel dumb, there is no way to mess up, there is no reward for figuring out stat/skill combo that works well. You just "lol i instaswitch" which is pandering to adhd gamer of today so much it might as well have button that brings you game end.

Im sure some like being led by hand all the time, but thats why they going to love D3 while I will keep not liking it and play other arpg's.


This only makes sense to you because you don't know what the 'A' stands for in ARPG. You want to make a decision of skill/spec and then win because you made better decisions. That's nonsense. That's an RPG (/MMORPG) mindset. Why would you even buy an action rpg if changing things on the fly and having to fight the enemies wasn't your goal?

Hey. It's your game time and you are obviously not alone, but I have actual MMORPG's to play. I don't buy ARPG's just to play an instanced MMORPG with the camera zoomed out farther and tiny groups.

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#76 - 2012-05-09 07:30:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Merin Ryskin
Alrione wrote:
And this lack of decision making is what makes game feel dumb, there is no way to mess up, there is no reward for figuring out stat/skill combo that works well. You just "lol i instaswitch" which is pandering to adhd gamer of today so much it might as well have button that brings you game end.


That would be a much more convincing argument before the internet redefined "figuring out stat/skill combos" to mean "spending 30 seconds looking up a character guide and following the cookie cutter build exactly". This hypothetical game you're talking about simply doesn't exist anymore. Within a short time of release day everything will be analyzed in detail, and the optimized character builds will be posted for everyone to use. And, unless you're a complete idiot, there's no way to mess it up.


And sorry, but no, punishing people for screwing up and spending skill/stat points on something that isn't good before they understand the game completely is NOT GOOD GAME DESIGN. Diablo 2 had this, and you know what it did? It reduced the game to "rush to hell cows, then leech until level 65 so you can finally start playing the game".
Just Lilly
#77 - 2012-05-14 01:22:16 UTC
Just another 20 hours to go!

I ended up taking tuesday and wednesday off Blink
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Selinate
#78 - 2012-05-14 02:15:49 UTC
Watched it, looked just like Diablo 2 and Diablo 1 except with better graphics and more fluid gameplay design. If it's anything like the first two, it starts out extremely easy but ends up being one hell of a strategy game combined with an RPG, in order to progress at all. Especially on higher levels of difficulty.

I honestly don't think I've ever, in my life, met a person who didn't love Diablo when they played it. Go figure that the first ones I would ever see would be on the Eve forums.

Also, as has been said before, quit judging the entire game on the Beta where they gave you a taste of the tutorial region. That's like saying "OH, SKIING IS SO EASY" when all you've done is the bunny slope.
Selinate
#79 - 2012-05-14 02:25:08 UTC
Reldor Silverheart wrote:
Personally i am getting torchlight 2 myself, the studio is not as big, but seriously, it has parts of the original team that was Blizzard of the north. I loved D1 and D2, i'll give a few reasons and then compare to d3.

Story
The story in d1 and d2 did not feel forced, yet it had a quite interestin depht to things, it was linear sure but it was dark and grim aswell. When i played d3 it just felt like they were trying to shove the story in my face, it did not hook me, and i know it was just the initial part, but that's what's worse. If they focus that much on the story this time around it needs to be properly introduced and not feel like a third wheel.

Aesthetics
Using this instead of Graphics because i feel it explains it better, while the graphics wasn't overly advanced in d1 and d2, they had really nice aestethics. And gave you a really grim and gloomy feeling. It also had alot of contrast and variaton, and it did not really feel cartoony either. The aestethics in d3 just felt weird and out of place, it did not give me a dark or gloomy feeling at all, it made me feel undewhelmed, aswell as the explosions they so promised left me underwhelmed. This is just my personal opinion, but think they took a step back aestehics wise in this game.

A sidenote here, i know that Torchlight 2 looks cartoony aswell, but in that setting they are trying to portray it actually works, but it still feels dark and gloomy, from what i have been able to see at least.

Classes/skill system
The classes feels allright in D3 to be fair, neither really better or worse than d1 or d2 did it. And i don't really think being able to customize your character is that important to up the score. The skills in d3 feels anemic tho (See above) the explosions and stuff left me much to wish for, and i had my graphics at max. Perhaps it gets better in the later stuff, i don't know.

The skill system feels anemic aswell, while i find it great that you don't have to try different builds anymore, it also removes some of the fun that was d2, d1 was more experimenting with stats and so on. I don't mind the skill system in D3, but i do miss the stat points system where you could customize your class however you wanted.

Gameplay
The gameplay feels weird in d3, story doesn't fit in, some of the voice actors sounds really odd, for example the male barbarian sounds like kratos, while i love kratos as a character, i'm not sure if it does fit in this setting with that voice. Gameplay feels anemic aswell, monsters are allright, nothing of it really sticks out yet tho, even if it was just a short beta. The maps feels way to linear, both D1 and D2 was linear, but nothing like this, here essentially the sidepath just takes you to a hidden stash or somesuch like that.

Also, D3 might have automatic gold pickups etc, but is by no means special for doing so. Also the crafting system in it just feels tacked on.

The thing is, despite all that's been said. I don't think D3 is a bad game, i just don't think it's worth the 60 bucks when i personally feel i will get a better experience out of a 20 dollar game (Torchlight 2).


Looks like someone has been putting D1 and D2 on a pedestal, and forgotten the actual games. I can understand why, it has been one hell of a long time since D2 came out.

A) Story. Really? Story? D1 had about the equivalent depth of it's story as does a children's book. It was trash. "Oh gosh, something is going wrong at that church, GO FIGURE IT OUT!"

B) Graphics. Really? D2 and D1 had terrible graphics. They were god awful. The "aesthetics" were terrible too. They didn't provide any gloomy feeling, it was more of a "this runs on what we have at the time well and we couldn't do any better" feeling. They were crappy. From what I've seen in D3, it's much better.

C) Classes/skills. I forget, but wasn't the D2 skill tree pretty much the same as WoW? Given there weren't 3 different branches to each class for different specs (or maybe it was, I forget), but I do remember that even one of the attacks in D2 got taken directly from the Paladin and used on the Paladin in WoW. I don't have much to say for D3 on this, but D2's class system wasn't great.

D) Gameplay. Everything you described above pretty much gives me a throwback to D2 and D1, so I don't really get why you have a beef with this.

The joy of D1 and D2 was the strategy of defeating hordes of enemies that you can't defeat no matter unless you take a minute to think. The joy was also in building up your character and getting new items, and defeating bosses that were much more powerful than you. Diablo was HARD in D2. Hope it's the same way in D3.

Overall, I think you need to go back and play the first 2 to remember what they were about...
Siigari Kitawa
Weave
Weave.
#80 - 2012-05-15 04:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Siigari Kitawa
I got Diablo 3 and am sitting here playing Monday Night Combat waiting to play Diablo 3 at midnight.

You know what I expect?

I expect World of Diablo. Why? Because it's being made by a company called Blizzard who has their hands in the pockets of some millions of people right now. And they're all willing to blindly fork over their cold hard cash to the company who they bow to for just about anything. So instead of being the hardcore Diablo fans that they're going to cater to, instead they are going to make a game that caters to the current population and climate that they are receiving income from. Which is unfortunate, if you ask me. I see a lot of things being "dumbed down" which is too bad, but I expect it too. And honestly you always did have more resolution with sprites so I expect a lot to look different. It's not the isometric hack and slash anymore people! Now we have real 3D and things should feel slightly off.

That much I expected. When I logged in and saw that everything in the options menu was basically directly taken straight from WoW that worried me a bit -- and the fact they're calling it the auction house instead of something like "Gheed's Van" or something also has me a bit concerned :P

I hope to have fun though, and I think I will. Just remember that in order for the company to make money they can't think like they did when they made Diablo 2 -- they have to think like what's making them money now -- which is World of Warcraft.

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