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Fix the TiDi please
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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-05-13 08:39:47 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
How it isn't lag in this game if you complain about lag in Call of Duty if something similar slowness happens?

So everything moves in slow motion in Call of Duty?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#62 - 2012-05-13 08:40:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
TWHC Assistant wrote:
Yes. I already described it above. It is when too many clients are making too many requests to a node. Your PC is not too slow, the node is.
So why do you keep saying that it's the same thing as TiDi's slow-motion effect?

Quote:
Typical narcissist.
So you agree, then, since you cannot come up with a counter argument (since, as we've seen, my answer is correct) and have to go for the ad hominem fallacy instead. Good.

Tippia wrote:
Who likes to play when everything slows down?
Anyone who's ever been in a big fleet fight. It's very very nice.

Tippia wrote:
All I want from you is a yes or a no.
…and your false dichotomy doesn't become any less false just because you repeat it. The answer remains the same: it doesn't matter in a dynamic environment. That makes for a very nice double fallacy on your part.

Jorma Morkkis wrote:
How it isn't lag in this game if you complain about lag in Call of Duty if something similar slowness happens?
Because that usually isn't lag either, but choppy frame rate. What we're talking about is like the part at the end of CoD4, when you finally shoot Zakhaev… the slow motion part. It's not very laggy even though (or maybe because) it's in slow motion.
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#63 - 2012-05-13 08:40:41 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
How it isn't lag in this game if you complain about lag in Call of Duty if something similar slowness happens?


There's no slow motion in call of duty.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-05-13 08:42:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Lord Zim wrote:
So everything moves in slow motion in Call of Duty?


I wouldn't say everything. Looks like you guys don't know what lag actually is.

Tippia wrote:
Because that usually isn't lag either, but choppy frame rate. What we're talking about is like the part at the end of CoD4, when you finally shoot Zakhaev… the slow motion part. It's not very laggy.


When you people start to learn that network/server lag doesn't have anything to do with framerate or slowmotion.
TWHC Assistant
#65 - 2012-05-13 08:43:19 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Nope. That's not lag. Lag is a delay in response from you press a button till it does something.

Same thing, different description.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-05-13 08:44:37 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
So everything moves in slow motion in Call of Duty?


I wouldn't say everything. Looks like you guys don't know what lag actually is.

No, it looks like you don't know what lag is.

Lag in COD is when you press to fire, and it takes 150ms for it to actually fire, so the target has moved on. That's lag, because the response is lagging behind the request. TiDi is doing nothing of the sort.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-05-13 08:44:58 UTC
TWHC Assistant wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Nope. That's not lag. Lag is a delay in response from you press a button till it does something.

Same thing, different description.

Nope.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#68 - 2012-05-13 08:45:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctor Ungabungas
You obviously don't understand what lag is - lag is undesirable behavior and occurs when a system is saturated with traffic and starts to drop information, whether it's a CPU (in the case of eve) or a network bottleneck (in the case of call of duty).

Eve is smart enough to detect when it is at risk of being saturated with traffic and 'slows down' reality to avoid the lag that you are talking about. Lag means black screens, disconnects, ships not dying when they're meant to. Slow downs mean everything happening the way it's meant to, just slower.

They are totally different phenomena and your bleating that they are 'the same thing' is just ignorance.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#69 - 2012-05-13 08:47:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Richard Desturned wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
It's a bit weird 0.0 systems share nodes with empire systems. Wouldn't it make more sense to have 0.0 systems share only nodes with themselves? Because whenever one hits TiDi, the chance of other well-populated empire systems to be effected seem smaller to me, and vice versa causing more TiDi. Except perhaps some big null HQ systems, but CCP knows which ones those are.


you're assuming the fight took place in nullsec - it didn't.



I'm surprised. You can't deny though that most of the blobby fights by far happen in null-sec.

TWHC Assistant wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Nope. That's not lag. Lag is a delay in response from you press a button till it does something.

Same thing, different description.


Perhaps you should go and watch the Fanfest video about lag and TiDi. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ_jOS-cvq0
After that, you can come back here and post how mistaken you were.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Li Charen-Teng
#70 - 2012-05-13 08:47:15 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
You might not realise it but huge fleet fights are fun, and they bring in new players who love the idea of warfare on that scale.


But if it's only 20vs20 in reality. But yeah, works if new players don't know what alt means.


Totally untrue. In PL it is main in carrier and alt on login screen for the supercap. Lol

Checking EVE GATE every few minutes...
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-05-13 08:47:53 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Lag in COD is when you press to fire, and it takes 150ms for it to actually fire, so the target has moved on. That's lag, because the response is lagging behind the request. TiDi is doing nothing of the sort.


So why undocking took 5 minutes yesterday? Or why I had to wait 3-5 minutes to get from system to system?

If that's not lag what it is?
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#72 - 2012-05-13 08:49:24 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Lag in COD is when you press to fire, and it takes 150ms for it to actually fire, so the target has moved on. That's lag, because the response is lagging behind the request. TiDi is doing nothing of the sort.


So why undocking took 5 minutes yesterday? Or why I had to wait 3-5 minutes to get from system to system?

If that's not lag what it is?


It's 'time dilation'. Every system in the game is working as intended.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#73 - 2012-05-13 08:49:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
When you people start to learn that network/server lag doesn't have anything to do with framerate or slowmotion.
Ehm. You do realise that I just said that framerate and slow motion doesn't have anything to do with lag, right? So I'm not entirely sure what your comment is about… I already said it — there's no real need for you to repeat it.

Quote:
So why undocking took 5 minutes yesterday? Or why I had to wait 3-5 minutes to get from system to system?
That is time moving slowly; the simulation running at less than a 1:1 game-time-to-real-time ratio. Slow-motion. Time Dialation. It's the server ensuring that you don't lag out, black-screen, or crash back to the login screen.

TWHC Assistant wrote:
Same thing, different description.
No, because what he described is pretty much the exact opposite of what TiDi does.
Francisco Bizzaro
#74 - 2012-05-13 08:49:40 UTC
Gorenaire wrote:
However from a gameplay point of view, its a pretty poor decision for the people who have nothing to do with the reason why the node is having problem.

Of course it will improve laoding grid time etc etc for the people who are in"battle system" but why people who have the bad luck to fly by in systems who are on the same node should also suffer the consequences for something they have nothng to do with.

My understanding is that this has to do with the way they distribute systems on the cluster. Multiple systems seem to be grouped into a logical "node" of systems, and these are all lumped together onto a physical compute node.

Ideally they should have a more fine-grained way of dividing up the work - and I don't see why they don't - but anyhow that's the way it is. And these types of things are often pretty fundamental design decisions which are difficult to fix once they've been made.

As one of the devs mentioned recently, WiS requires a re-think about how work is distributed and might provide some impetus for digging into the code at that level again.

Quote:

Its just an idea but when they do this TiDI, CCP could send some kind of "traffic warning "message telling the players, the list of systems affected by TiiDi, at least we could plan accordingly.

This sounds like a good idea. Maybe the star map could include a filter which showed TiDi to help planning routes.


TWHC Assistant wrote:
Tippia wrote:
And I answered: it makes no difference in a dynamic environment.

Come on, you can do it: yes or no?? Should CCP include information as how often systems are being visited into their planning or should they not?

I expect they actually do this. But transient activity in a system which is statistically expected to be quiet is always going to mess things up, which I guess is what has happened to the OP. A more flexible/dynamic way of moving individual systems between compute nodes would be the only way to get around that.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#75 - 2012-05-13 08:49:45 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Lag in COD is when you press to fire, and it takes 150ms for it to actually fire, so the target has moved on. That's lag, because the response is lagging behind the request. TiDi is doing nothing of the sort.


So why undocking took 5 minutes yesterday? Or why I had to wait 3-5 minutes to get from system to system?

If that's not lag what it is?



That was lag. But TiDi doesn't cause lag, it's there to mitigate the effects of lag. How hard can this possibly be to understand? Blaming TiDi for lag is like blaming traffic lights for traffic.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#76 - 2012-05-13 08:50:58 UTC
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
It's 'time dilation'. Every system in the game is working as intended.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#77 - 2012-05-13 08:51:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Malcanis wrote:

That was lag. But TiDi doesn't cause lag, it's there to mitigate the effects of lag. How hard can this possibly be to understand? Blaming TiDi for lag is like blaming traffic lights for traffic.


The not-so-smart people just see themselves standing before a red light with a lot of cars and blame the traffic anyway.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#78 - 2012-05-13 08:52:45 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
It's 'time dilation'. Every system in the game is working as intended.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag


Literally from the first line: In real-time applications, the term is used when the application fails to respond in a timely fashion to inputs.

The application was responding to inputs in a timely fashion. Not responding in a timely fashion would be 'black screens' and 'disconnections'.

Did it start undocking the second you hit undock? Yes? Then it responded in a timely fashion.

Perhaps you meant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#79 - 2012-05-13 08:52:47 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
It's 'time dilation'. Every system in the game is working as intended.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag
“Lag is a common word meaning to fail to keep up or to fall behind.”

…which is pretty much the exact opposite of what TiDi does.
TWHC Assistant
#80 - 2012-05-13 08:52:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
So why do you keep saying that it's the same thing as TiDi's slow-motion effect?

Because how the lag presents itself does not matter to me.

Tippia wrote:
So you agree, then, since ...

Agreeing with you knowing what everybody thinks is idiotic.

Tippia wrote:
TWHC Assistant wrote:
Who likes to play when everything slows down?
Anyone who's ever been in a big fleet fight. It's very very nice.

Again, I cannot agree with an idiotic opinion. You may like it, but you are not anyone.


Tippia wrote:
…and your false dichotomy ...

Stop derailing the question. You are unable to agree with me on something very simple and harmless. One last time, or I have to report you for trolling, do you agree or disagree?