Player Features and Ideas Discussion

It properly only goes about 850-1000m/s, which is the only bad thing... however a plated harby/cane/ myrm is about similar if not faster...

(in response to drake fit on previous page..)

They're craptastic at pvp, except when in blobs or facing an obviously inferior ship. In comparison, everything is capable of this, however they have fittings capabilities that allow them to face off against equal or even superior ships, which the Drake cannot do.

Oh I hear you there.. The drake is a relatively easy ship to fit and fly. However, getting it to be an effective pvp ship is a bit difficult.

A drake pilot that knows what he's doing may be able to take down a cane, but this also kinda relies on the cane pilot not being that great at it.

A cane should be able to tank the craptastic dps of a drake while out dps'ing his capable tank, and still be able to move faster, web, and scram the drake at the same time.

It's very rare to catch a drake outside of high sec attempting solo pvp. They're typically a ship in a fleet, and even more so in a drake fleet and drake blob.

Drakes work great together, but unlike many other ships in Eve, they're not too grand Solo. The only thing that makes them seem to have a relatively good solo pvp is their tank, however at the same time that very tank is probably what henders them from being more solo pvp affective.

That's a bit of a myth. It isn't easier to train a Drake. It's actually it's own skill set. I had Gunnery and no missiles. I was never a Missile user but I wanted to use a Damnation and by default trained Drake skills. It meant training up 6 new skills to support Heavy missiles that only work with missiles. When I trained Projectiles, it took a third of the time because I had already trained all the support skills to use beams and pulse. Adding projectiles to the arsenal was easy.

As someone else said, the issue with drakes is they are being evaluated on their blob value and that's a very bad example because it really doesn't matter what you are in when there are 800 of them on the field. The Drake and Damnation are by far the cheapest ship to fit. The original design of a Missile boat was you got a diversity of damage but you paid a heavy price in ISK and somehow the Launcher ended up being the only T2 weapons platform you can put on for under 700K ISK. Even a T2 Cruise or torp Launcher is cheaper than a medium projectile or other medium gun. Even the ammo isn't any different cost wise.

anyone else notice that a Logi is number 8 for kills on that list, (the Scimitar)?

My thoughts: Scrap that list and stop using EVE kill as a 'reliable' source of information for these discussions. It's not. You can't use numbers from Null battles to determine the effectiveness of PvP vessels outside the blob. Whether Drake is OP or not is irrelevent.

edit: was thinking of Alliance ships, nvm.

Also, Maticore and Hound are up there. Structure kills much? It counts both, so your numbers are as much or more reliant on POS structure shooting as anything else.

When you factor the t3's can spank battlecruisers (a larger size vessel) with absolutely no problems, yeah...I'd say they could use a buff.

I don't have a problem with them beating them necessarily. It's the fact that they can pwn them like the hulk with a doggy toy..

That's not neccesarily true. You can stomp a faction BS with a BC if you fit it right and they're much cheaper.

My problem isn't so much with t3 effectiveness, but rather their effectiveness is overly powerful for their Hull size. For instance, a tengu can outperform pretty much any other sub capital caldari boat in both pvp and pve.
However, if they fell into the BC classification, then they would receive a larger sign radius and perhaps slower movement speed while not requiring a tank or dps nerf. It would be a better balance for t3's simply by making them slower and bigger, thus easier to counter.

I have the tengu maxed out in every possible variation. I have all possible missile, shield, support, and velocity skills that would effect the tengu maxed out.
With my current pve form I have 705 dps and am capable of a much more durable tank than a golem, not to mention its much faster and smaller.

Is this op? Yes, but only as a cruiser sized vessel.

If you were to compare its capabilities with any other cruiser and were then to apply the difference to a battleship class t3, then that BS would essentially have over 2k dps with the effective tank of a rattlesnake. Does that sound Op for a BS class vessel? If not than you really need to reconsider what you deem to be balance.
Oh, and my tengu fit also lock quickly and has 35 sensor strength.

A cane can pull out much more effective dps while still having a large enough buffer tank to spank a Drake 1v1. Start taking g away it's tank without giving it a buff to dps, and not just allowing it to do equal dps with all damege types and you're doing g nothing but removing one of its 2 attributes that make it reomtely usable in pvp. 1 being tank and 2 being missiles having no optimal range.