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Corporate Shares need more control
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Mjolnir Spartanus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-05-08 03:46:39 UTC
I belive there should be an option to revoke shares from ex-corporation members who have been kicked out of the corp. Or for those that voluntarily leave the corp, shares should be automatically deposited back into the corp wallet.

At the very least, give us a Vote option that would allow all corp members to vote on whether or not corp shares could be revoked (in general, or on a player by player basis). If such a vote is proposed and majority rules to revoke the shares, then the shares get revoked, back to the corp wallet to be redistributed to worthy players or resold to increase corp capital.

OR, when issuing shares to a member of the corp, allow the selection of a few options at the time of issue, such as: "able to be revoked" and "revoked upon quitting the corporation" or some sort of forced buyback options.

if a member buys a number of shares at X isk per share, then the corporation should be able to buy back those shares at the same price without the members consent when or if that member leaves or gets kicked out. being kicked out should include a penalty to the buyback option though. if i kick someone out of the corp for being unsavory, the last thing i want to do is buy back my own corp shares. but fair is fair. i'm not into scamming.

please support this proposal. profit sharing is a guaranteed way to develop a loyal, active, reliable member-base. but what CEO wants to sell shares to players knowing if they quit they can still get paid corp funds? what player wants to be active and loyal knowing once they get shares they're set for life? with all the scammers in eve today, us honest players need a bit of insurance to maintain a moral character. CCP needs to furnish such insurance in the form of usable tools and options for controlling capitol.

please support this proposal.
Uronksur Suth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-05-08 04:32:50 UTC
Mjolnir Spartanus wrote:
I belive there should be an option to revoke shares from ex-corporation members who have been kicked out of the corp. Or for those that voluntarily leave the corp, shares should be automatically deposited back into the corp wallet.

At the very least, give us a Vote option that would allow all corp members to vote on whether or not corp shares could be revoked (in general, or on a player by player basis). If such a vote is proposed and majority rules to revoke the shares, then the shares get revoked, back to the corp wallet to be redistributed to worthy players or resold to increase corp capital.

OR, when issuing shares to a member of the corp, allow the selection of a few options at the time of issue, such as: "able to be revoked" and "revoked upon quitting the corporation" or some sort of forced buyback options.

if a member buys a number of shares at X isk per share, then the corporation should be able to buy back those shares at the same price without the members consent when or if that member leaves or gets kicked out. being kicked out should include a penalty to the buyback option though. if i kick someone out of the corp for being unsavory, the last thing i want to do is buy back my own corp shares. but fair is fair. i'm not into scamming.

please support this proposal. profit sharing is a guaranteed way to develop a loyal, active, reliable member-base. but what CEO wants to sell shares to players knowing if they quit they can still get paid corp funds? what player wants to be active and loyal knowing once they get shares they're set for life? with all the scammers in eve today, us honest players need a bit of insurance to maintain a moral character. CCP needs to furnish such insurance in the form of usable tools and options for controlling capitol.

please support this proposal.


The entire point of shares being implemented was for corporations to actually have activities, shareholders and operate something like a publicly traded companies. The ability to revoke shares from leaving member would render it pointless. Might as well remove shares and just implement a payroll.

But shares are completely useless at present, I'll give you that. I've never even heard of any CEO actually distributing shares.
Mjolnir Spartanus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-05-09 00:23:03 UTC
The shares aren't entirely useless. Like you said, they can still be used to "have activities, shareholders and operate something like publicly traded companies." But there has to be some sort of protection against scammers. That's why I mentioned a Vote option for everyone to agree on the revocation from an ex-member by name... Otherwise, people can join corps just to take part in the share distribution and then quit and reap the benefits remotely without any repercussions.

My whole plan for corporate profit-sharing is derailed by the lack of control over shares. Too much control is a bad idea as well, because of CEO's with less than moral character perhaps selling the shares and then revoking them. Another reason why a Vote might possibly be the best option.

Perhaps make two types of shares, shares that remain within the corporation belonging only to it's members, and shares used for extracorporate activities like you mentioned.

I guess this issue might be too complicated for CCP to touch, but if that is the case, shares should be removed altogether.

The current state of "social acceptance" in the eve universe prevents trust, and a lack of trust is what makes the shares useless.
Nindae
D.W.C.
#4 - 2012-05-10 15:54:20 UTC
For to have shares to be really useful, you need safe market for it. That means CCP needs to create normal stock market, same as real life ones are. It can be region based (for example only corps with HQs in region can be traded there) the same way as market is, shares then can be put there as any other stuff. From that point on it makes sense to create company, try to sell its shares to obtain money for corporate stuff (POS, BPOs etc.) and make profit and pay dividends. And trade shares as any other stuff, i. e. buy, sell, buyback with company money. There must be know, how many shares corp has, and how many are public. And for sure corporate button with option shares are/are not tradable.
It opens really big possibilities of scamming for example, as possibilities of more nice behavior, like helping newbies with some hope getting your money back and much more.

Maybe separate market is not needed so much, maybe there is the way how to put stock to normal market, when stock takes form of "physical paper".
Mjolnir Spartanus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-05-13 01:33:34 UTC
The regional limit idea is a good one i think. and assigning a number of public shares versus private corp only shares is also a good idea if that is what you were trying to say. but i don't think corporate shares belong on the regular market, but there could be a separate market for stock trading complete with its own stats like purchase history and graphs.
with the public shares, the current system is good enough to enable such trading, but for the internal private corp shares, there needs to be an automatic buyback system for when members leave the corp or are kicked out. and the price of shares would depend on the corporations monthly income or expenses, the number shares owned and the number of shareholders, etc. and when a member leaves or gets kicked, their shares would automatically be bought from them at the value of the shares at that time.
i think that sounds fair. and having a certain algorithm that determines share value without input from the corp ceo would be a way of limiting the ceo's ability to manipulate his/her corps shareholders.
all of this is possible, in time, but the real question is: "does CCP believe it's important enough to spend the time and resources implementing a new system?"