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CNR PvE question
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Lugalzagezi666
#21 - 2011-10-01 10:14:15 UTC
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
...


You are wrong.

Cruise golem cant match cruise cnr dps because it has less effective launchers, less dronebay and npc defenders destroy 25% of golems cruise volley.

Cap booster on cnr is viable /and very efficient/ fit that allows you to fit much more offensive mods to speed up your kill speed. It has nothing to do with skills. Cap booster cost is minimal and not even worth mentioning - especially if you use faction missiles instead of furys and call it efficient.

Its also best way for op to get "good tank" on cnr, even if its just burst tank.
AureoLion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-10-01 17:09:38 UTC
If you're adamant against capacitor boosters and want to omni tank:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/783175/FDDShots/1317484786.png
Yes, 3min of cap is enough for a long-range, high-dps ship.
Will get better using CN invuls (331/881) or mission-specific hardeners (tanks 400/900 angel with specific hardeners, for example)
I suppose you could add a capacitor safeguard in the flare's slot, or swap the rigs to rigor2/rigor1/rigor1. The dps difference is minimal.
Gist c-type is fairly reasonably priced at 400m or so. And it's well worth the isk, at 525 shield for 179 cap, opposed to 600 shield for 400 cap on a T2/Faction (T2 also boosts slower, at 5s cycles)
Large boosters are crap, especially the Gist ones. Go XL on nearly all cases.

Trying to get it cap stable means using CCCs, or cap power relays, and both ideas are quite dumb.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#23 - 2011-10-01 18:06:02 UTC

Quote:

Cruise golem cant match cruise cnr dps because it has less effective launchers, less dronebay and npc defenders destroy 25% of golems cruise volley.


Please explain how a larger dronebay increases dps when the bandwidth stays the same?

I did mention the defense missiles but as an overall due to the 100% increase in damage it halves the cost of the faction missiles.

I guess you did alright though 1 out of 3 aint't bad.....
Lugalzagezi666
#24 - 2011-10-01 19:19:14 UTC
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:

Please explain how a larger dronebay increases dps when the bandwidth stays the same?

I did mention the defense missiles but as an overall due to the 100% increase in damage it halves the cost of the faction missiles.

I guess you did alright though 1 out of 3 aint't bad.....


You must suck badly at reading, because i was right about every single thing i posted.

- cruise golem dps with furys : 646 , cruise cnr dps with furys : 753
= really big difference, easily noticeable in game on killing speed
1/3

- explanation how larger dronebay of cnr helps to increase damage : some people who actually undestand l4 mission enviroment realized, that only projected dps means something outside eft warrioring - they found out, that best drones to use for this enviroment are sentry drones, because they dont waste time travelling to target and allow you to focus dps to 1 target instantly - and additional dronebay of cnr allows you to use 3 sentries + 1 flight of lights instead of only 2 sentries + lights, that means 60 more instant dps for cnr
= not big difference, but still noticeable when you use it right /to minimise effect of npc defenders/
2/3

- golems lost damage to defender : 1451, navy ravens lost damage to defender : 725
= significant difference that will most likely force you to fire additional volley on npc from golem
3/3

Btw have fun using faction cruises on golem, its still more expensive and less efficient than using furys AND cap boosters on cnr
valerydarcy
Doomheim
#25 - 2011-10-01 20:13:32 UTC
some of the setups here are fully ********.. 4 bcu's..... really?

No.

CNR setup:

7x Cruise II
XL Booster 2, amp 2, 2 of each hardener.
3 bcu's, 2 pdu's.
3 ccc rigs.
5 med drones.

done.

Post with your main™
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#26 - 2011-10-01 20:15:28 UTC
Fair point on the math, I apologize for forgetting the rof bonus on the CNR.

Still think I'll have fun in my Golem, making money... using faction missiles. Salvage at the same time alone should cover the cost and still keep me plus above any CNR.

Tempted to buy a CNR just to see what all the fuss is about.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#27 - 2011-10-01 20:23:58 UTC
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
Golem can match CNR on a cruise fit


Since nobody has come out and said it yet: no, it can't. 7 *1.25 > 4 * 2 because that's just how math works. CNR with an equivalent fit and the same missiles will always push out exactly 3/32 more volley damage than a Golem with an identical RoF. The Golem just gets a bonus (ok, several) to applying that damage. But the thing is, the CNR can make up the difference with rigs/painter(s) if we're talking about cruise missiles. And that's before drones -- and yes, the CNR and only the CNR can use 3 sentries as supplemental damage/frigate murder at range.

The Golem only outperformes the CNR when using torps, and if a CNR could apply torp damage as effectively as a Golem (lots of TP support?) it would come out on top there as well.

FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
And regarding the cap boosters, if you need them you ain't got the correct skills. Just another cost to mission running and if I can do the majority of Lvl4s in my normal Raven without them a CNR should be easy as pie.

I understand that you are wanting a quick fix for the cap instability but pulse tanking (what the Raven does) should mean you don't drop all your cap.


Umm. Yes. You pulse tank a Raven. You pulse tank most things. I think my Mach gets all of 1 minute 48 seconds of constant boosting. But the thing is, a Mach is a true gank boat. A Raven, and this applies to all Raven variants, just doesn't quite reach that point. And so sometimes you need to munch some boosters, because you sure as hell don't want to start dedicating the half dozen slots cap stability would require. And seriously, 800s are dirt cheap. If you would so much as consider faction missiles, even on a Golem, then cap boosters are purely a nominal charge.
oldmanst4r
oldmanst4r's Corporation
#28 - 2011-10-01 20:59:50 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Zmaychek2 Dragons1 wrote:
ok tnx a lot, then can you tell me how to maximize dps on CNR, i have arbalest cruise launchers and im using faction missiles, also i have 3 T2 balistic control (sorry i can copy my fit now im on phone atm) i have 12 days till T2 launchers. i alsi have screen reinforcer rigs do i need to change them and with what?


factual statement: This is your goal if you want to maximize your CNR's mission running abilities. Change drones and shield hardeners as required.

[Raven Navy Issue, Level 4 - Liang]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Signal Amplifier II

Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster
Explosion Dampening Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II


Bouncer II x3
Hobgoblin II x5



This is the fit you are looking for. Maximize dps. You should rarely have to tap into your cap booster, but you'll probably need it occasionally. It's actually a very practical module, just keep a supply of cap 800s in your mission home base and re-fill whenever you need to.

Ignore any fit that does not have1xpainter, 3xRigors and 4xCN BCS, they are essential to maximizing your isk per hour.
Lascero
Doomheim
#29 - 2011-10-01 22:02:14 UTC
oldmanst4r wrote:


This is the fit you are looking for. Maximize dps. You should rarely have to tap into your cap booster, but you'll probably need it occasionally. It's actually a very practical module, just keep a supply of cap 800s in your mission home base and re-fill whenever you need to.

Ignore any fit that does not have1xpainter, 3xRigors and 4xCN BCS, they are essential to maximizing your isk per hour.


With the TP, are you actually killing cruisers/BCs in less volleys? I notice at my skill I simply 2 shot most of the normal ones with or without it on. HACs take a bit more, so I may need to double check that.
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2011-10-02 15:46:38 UTC
The standard XL booster fit is fine, but if you want to spend some isk you can go with some medium pith a type boosters, remain cap stable, have sufficient tank, no need for a cap booster, and do the same DPS.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
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