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EvE Online, The Antisocial MMO
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Kyoko Sakoda
Achura-Waschi Exchange
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#81 - 2012-05-12 22:07:54 UTC
Tergerom Loregeron wrote:
John Schlong wrote:
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:
Posting in an Internet thread.

Also confirming that the OP has a grudge against 2.5% of the playerbase.


if goonswarm is only 2.5% of the player base, then why does CCP call "Burn Jita" a "playerbase-driven event"

Is CCP saying, "we are going to do whatever the loudest 2% tell us to do?"

This sounds a lot like the 1%-ers in the real world telling the other 99% what to do. But unlike the real world, CCP really does have god-like powers, they could easily give concord ships insta-warp ability and stop highsec ganking in an instant, but they choose not to, because they think it's what the players want.


You had to go there with that stupid ******* analogy didn't you?


I was worried he would, but on the other hand it just makes him sound even more stupid.

He also seems to forget that even though Goons headed up the Burn Jita event, there were many other alliances there having fun. CCP took notice because it was good press for the game -- something never before done on such a scale in EVE or in the industry -- not because it was Goons.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2012-05-12 22:10:43 UTC
I can be your friend if you're a girl and are willing to send me your picture.

edit: (and will not call concord when your isk is gone at the morning)

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Kyoko Sakoda
Achura-Waschi Exchange
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#83 - 2012-05-12 22:11:15 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Curious - I know almost every class of ship has been nerfed or buffed by CCP. Have they ever touched the indy genre?


Blockade runners didn't used to have the stats they have now, or Covert Ops cloaks. The other T2 industrial didn't used to have a warp core stabilization bonus built in.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#84 - 2012-05-12 22:11:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:
Tergerom Loregeron wrote:
John Schlong wrote:

if goonswarm is only 2.5% of the player base, then why does CCP call "Burn Jita" a "playerbase-driven event"

Is CCP saying, "we are going to do whatever the loudest 2% tell us to do?"

This sounds a lot like the 1%-ers in the real world telling the other 99% what to do. But unlike the real world, CCP really does have god-like powers, they could easily give concord ships insta-warp ability and stop highsec ganking in an instant, but they choose not to, because they think it's what the players want.

You had to go there with that stupid ******* analogy didn't you?

I was worried he would, but on the other hand it just makes him sound even more stupid.

He also seems to forget that even though Goons headed up the Burn Jita event, there were many other alliances there having fun. CCP took notice because it was good press for the game -- something never before done on such a scale in EVE or in the industry -- not because it was Goons.

Besides, if anything, CCP is the 0.1%. And they do have "god-like" powers so, of course they do what they believe is best for the game.

Maybe not for your ~ego~, but there you have it.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
D3F4ULT
#85 - 2012-05-12 22:13:34 UTC
Confirming with this thread that EVE is better than every MMO out there. Thanks CCP for letting me ruin people's days.

"Bow down before the one you serve, you're going to get what you deserve"
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2012-05-12 22:14:46 UTC
John Schlong wrote:
I guess actually having a sense of ethics puts me at a disadvantage here.

Which isn't to say I'm opposed to fighting people, just do it the right way. There is a huge difference between challenging someone to a pistol dual (war dec), and shooting someone in the back of the head with a sniper rifle (suicide gank)


Sense of ethics = disadvantage.........in some settings, definitely.

Difference between wardec and gank is little when the dec is from skilled experienced pilots against pure industrial highsec barnacles. Except this, in a fight there is no right way, unless you mean the way that maximises chance of a win. I'll always go with sniper rifle myself.
Combat is only about winning, sport is about fair play so that you can be a winner and a good guy on the same day. Fair fight = sport and is therefore NOT A FIGHT.

Now that we've straightened this out you are more prepared to enjoy the environment across new eden, thank me later.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Beliandra
Elgoi Developments Inc.
#87 - 2012-05-12 22:25:05 UTC
John Schlong wrote:
This is the perfect metaphor.

Imagine you live in the US and you are in your car driving to work. Suddenly a central-american terrorist shows up holding a disposable rocket launcher and blows up your car. You wake up in the hospital late for work and without a car, meanwhile the terrorist wakes up in central america and gets a bounty for killing an american, which is more than enough money to buy another rocket launcher, plus he gets to keep whatever money was in the americans wallet. Is it the American's fault for driving a car instead of an APC (armored personnel carrier)?

Here's another perfect metaphor.

You're playing Quake, in an online deathmatch. Someone shoots you in the head with a railgun. You respawn, spot them, fire a few shots and miss, and they rail you again. You respawn and they rail you again.

You then go to Id's forums and cry that you were just trying to enjoy a game of Quake and a griefer kept shooting you. You then tell Id that if they ever want to be a successful games developer they're going to have to change Quake so you are free to run around in a deathmatch without griefers being able to shoot you.

(feel free to replace "Quake" and "Id" with whatever FPS the cool kids play these days, I know I'm showing my age).

But well posted - I'm sure CCP will be delighted to hear what they've been doing wrong all these years. After nine years of constant growth, they will definitely want to know what they must do if they ever want EVE to grow.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#88 - 2012-05-12 22:29:50 UTC
Beliandra wrote:
John Schlong wrote:
This is the perfect metaphor.

Imagine you live in the US and you are in your car driving to work. Suddenly a central-american terrorist shows up holding a disposable rocket launcher and blows up your car. You wake up in the hospital late for work and without a car, meanwhile the terrorist wakes up in central america and gets a bounty for killing an american, which is more than enough money to buy another rocket launcher, plus he gets to keep whatever money was in the americans wallet. Is it the American's fault for driving a car instead of an APC (armored personnel carrier)?

Here's another perfect metaphor.

You're playing Quake, in an online deathmatch. Someone shoots you in the head with a railgun. You respawn, spot them, fire a few shots and miss, and they rail you again. You respawn and they rail you again.

You then go to Id's forums and cry that you were just trying to enjoy a game of Quake and a griefer kept shooting you. You then tell Id that if they ever want to be a successful games developer they're going to have to change Quake so you are free to run around in a deathmatch without griefers being able to shoot you.

(feel free to replace "Quake" and "Id" with whatever FPS the cool kids play these days, I know I'm showing my age).

But well posted - I'm sure CCP will be delighted to hear what they've been doing wrong all these years. After nine years of constant growth, they will definitely want to know what they must do if they ever want EVE to grow.

Love to railgun people.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
John Schlong
Doomheim
#89 - 2012-05-12 22:31:50 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
John Schlong wrote:
I guess actually having a sense of ethics puts me at a disadvantage here.

Which isn't to say I'm opposed to fighting people, just do it the right way. There is a huge difference between challenging someone to a pistol dual (war dec), and shooting someone in the back of the head with a sniper rifle (suicide gank)


Sense of ethics = disadvantage.........in some settings, definitely.

Difference between wardec and gank is little when the dec is from skilled experienced pilots against pure industrial highsec barnacles. Except this, in a fight there is no right way, unless you mean the way that maximises chance of a win. I'll always go with sniper rifle myself.
Combat is only about winning, sport is about fair play so that you can be a winner and a good guy on the same day. Fair fight = sport and is therefore NOT A FIGHT.

Now that we've straightened this out you are more prepared to enjoy the environment across new eden, thank me later.




If your corp has a war dec on it, then atleast you know that someone actively wants to kill you, and you can take precautions (spend isk on players to guard your ships and operations or something).

The alternative is to fit every ship you fly as if you were going into lowsec, all the time, for the once-every-three-weeks chance that someone might try to attack you. A ship scanner, warp stabilizer, and cloaking device aren't very useful in PvE missions, yet that seems to be the suggested course of action.
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2012-05-12 22:41:12 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
This how I see situation around Goons and CCP:

Last 2 semi-empty yearly "expansions" (PI + CQ mini-games) indicate CCP doesn't have any clues (and/or resources) how to expand the game. And situation is getting worse because upcoming "The Great Debug and Interface Improvement" "expansion" will not bring any new content a-la wormhole space few years ago + there is no clear signs situation with "expansionless expansions" will change.

Meanwhile Goons create some type of "corrida red cloth" to distract community's attention from fact people pay for (almost) the same game as 3 years ago + situation will be the same for at least 6-12 more months until next expansion (maybe even for 18-24 months because we didn't hear anything new/certain from CCP yet). Goon's activity, Hulkageddon, staged alliance tournament(s) and whatever types of massive trolling alliances may offer to public - anything what generate news - these news are much better than boring news about empty expansions. And situation won't change until CCP find project manager who actually may expand the game further instead of implementing meaningless mini-games and debugs to present them as expansions. So you better stop worry and accept EVE, CCP, Goons, Hulkageddon, etc. as is because you can't really change situation with fantasy-less developers who cannot imagine anything new and interesting for internetspaceship game except for their own weekend shopping experience with snobby $1000 Japanese jeans.

TL;DR it's not Goons' fault CCP doesn't have developers with ability to expand the game. Don't worry, be happy.

I'd rather they fix the game and gameplay, than add features that are horribly broken, rushed out the door, and won't get "fixed" for years down the road.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
John Schlong
Doomheim
#91 - 2012-05-12 22:41:35 UTC
Beliandra wrote:
John Schlong wrote:
This is the perfect metaphor.

Imagine you live in the US and you are in your car driving to work. Suddenly a central-american terrorist shows up holding a disposable rocket launcher and blows up your car. You wake up in the hospital late for work and without a car, meanwhile the terrorist wakes up in central america and gets a bounty for killing an american, which is more than enough money to buy another rocket launcher, plus he gets to keep whatever money was in the americans wallet. Is it the American's fault for driving a car instead of an APC (armored personnel carrier)?

Here's another perfect metaphor.

You're playing Quake, in an online deathmatch. Someone shoots you in the head with a railgun. You respawn, spot them, fire a few shots and miss, and they rail you again. You respawn and they rail you again.

You then go to Id's forums and cry that you were just trying to enjoy a game of Quake and a griefer kept shooting you. You then tell Id that if they ever want to be a successful games developer they're going to have to change Quake so you are free to run around in a deathmatch without griefers being able to shoot you.

(feel free to replace "Quake" and "Id" with whatever FPS the cool kids play these days, I know I'm showing my age).

But well posted - I'm sure CCP will be delighted to hear what they've been doing wrong all these years. After nine years of constant growth, they will definitely want to know what they must do if they ever want EVE to grow.


Quake is PURE PvP, it has NO other aspects. You can't do anything in Quake EXCEPT PvP (or PvBOT)

Eve has many other aspects, like missioning, trading, mining and exploration. you assume that EVERYONE on eve is in it for the PvP. I happen to be here because it's a cool spaceship game that I'm willing to pay for as long as it entertains me, not because I want to challenge myself against other humans, If I wanted to do that I would join a real sport, and get exercise in the process. I play video games to relax, not to add MORE stress to my life.
Just Alter
Futures Abstractions
#92 - 2012-05-12 22:42:37 UTC
John Schlong wrote:
All the old players have given up in disgust after loosing 2 plexes worth of ship, fittings and implants to a single ganker in a 7 mil (fully reimbursed) ship



I wasnt able to read further.

This is the forum of the game eve online, have you ever played it?
John Schlong
Doomheim
#93 - 2012-05-12 22:51:46 UTC
Just Alter wrote:
John Schlong wrote:
All the old players have given up in disgust after loosing 2 plexes worth of ship, fittings and implants to a single ganker in a 7 mil (fully reimbursed) ship



I wasnt able to read further.

This is the forum of the game eve online, have you ever played it?



No, what's it about? I heard it has spaceships or something?
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2012-05-12 22:57:08 UTC
John Schlong wrote:

If your corp has a war dec on it, then atleast you know that someone actively wants to kill you, and you can take precautions (spend isk on players to guard your ships and operations or something).

The alternative is to fit every ship you fly as if you were going into lowsec, all the time, for the once-every-three-weeks chance that someone might try to attack you. A ship scanner, warp stabilizer, and cloaking device aren't very useful in PvE missions, yet that seems to be the suggested course of action.



YES VERY GOOD. Although I asploded my brain doing highsec level 4 missions in a faction -fitted machariel and never used any of those modules. There's a component that can make those other modules redundant, it's called an informed and judicious mind. It can't be scrambled and has few countermeasures. It functions better after you make mistakes in a process called 'learning'. PVE can make you a bit lazy though, so I regularly covops into missions in order to salvage and enjoy the sparkling wit of your average mission-ho on his pub-throne.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#95 - 2012-05-12 23:04:59 UTC
no but everyone uses this 4bn machariel for missions why can't i do the same even though I have zero experience with dodging ganks

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Plentath
Sparkle Motion.
#96 - 2012-05-12 23:05:31 UTC
John Schlong wrote:
Plentath wrote:
John Schlong wrote:
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:
Posting in an Internet thread.

Also confirming that the OP has a grudge against 2.5% of the playerbase.


if goonswarm is only 2.5% of the player base, then why does CCP call "Burn Jita" a "playerbase-driven event"

Is CCP saying, "we are going to do whatever the loudest 2% tell us to do?"

This sounds a lot like the 1%-ers in the real world telling the other 99% what to do. But unlike the real world, CCP really does have god-like powers, they could easily give concord ships insta-warp ability and stop highsec ganking in an instant, but they choose not to, because they think it's what the players want.


No, it's not up to CCP.

It's up to the other 98% of the playerbase to stop them.

You don't seem to understand what a sandbox game is.


If i see someone who isn't in my corp/alliance being attacked by a suicide ganker, and I try to help them by killing the ganker, the police come after ME instead. the only way that the 98% of other players could fight back is if they all joined the same alliance.

CCP made the game and CCP makes the rules. The game allows ganking because CCP WANTS ganking to happen, simple as that. If CCP really wants people to join to join a corp, they should find some other way besides making the solo experience suck balls

Well if the rules of engagement in highsec are your problem, leave highsec.

Stop hindering yourself and then claiming someone else is.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#97 - 2012-05-12 23:06:05 UTC
John Schlong wrote:
Just Alter wrote:
John Schlong wrote:
All the old players have given up in disgust after loosing 2 plexes worth of ship, fittings and implants to a single ganker in a 7 mil (fully reimbursed) ship

I wasnt able to read further.

This is the forum of the game eve online, have you ever played it?

No, what's it about? I heard it has spaceships or something?

Sometimes, those spaceships explode.

:ohdear:

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
John Schlong
Doomheim
#98 - 2012-05-12 23:07:12 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
John Schlong wrote:

If your corp has a war dec on it, then atleast you know that someone actively wants to kill you, and you can take precautions (spend isk on players to guard your ships and operations or something).

The alternative is to fit every ship you fly as if you were going into lowsec, all the time, for the once-every-three-weeks chance that someone might try to attack you. A ship scanner, warp stabilizer, and cloaking device aren't very useful in PvE missions, yet that seems to be the suggested course of action.



YES VERY GOOD. Although I asploded my brain doing highsec level 4 missions in a faction -fitted machariel and never used any of those modules. There's a component that can make those other modules redundant, it's called an informed and judicious mind. It can't be scrambled and has few countermeasures. It functions better after you make mistakes in a process called 'learning'. PVE can make you a bit lazy though, so I regularly covops into missions in order to salvage and enjoy the sparkling wit of your average mission-ho on his pub-throne.




Ok, how do I become "informed" on which one of the 75 players in my system is planning to kill me, so I can fly back in the middle of a mission and refit my ship? I'm in highsec, I can't just kill everyone who isn't in my corp, like they do in nullsec

You make it sound as if you can "sense" when you are about to be ganked and make changes to defend yourself.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2012-05-12 23:08:32 UTC
John Schlong wrote:
Ok, how do I become "informed" on which one of the 75 players in my system is planning to kill me, so I can fly back in the middle of a mission and refit my ship? I'm in highsec, I can't just kill everyone who isn't in my corp, like they do in nullsec

You make it sound as if you can "sense" when you are about to be ganked and make changes to defend yourself.


hmm those 20 red skulls in local are probably not a threat

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Josef Djugashvilis
#100 - 2012-05-12 23:08:51 UTC
John Schlong wrote:
[quote=Alexandra Alt][quote=HVAC Repairman]EVE is supposed to be hard? The world is a rough place.



Imagine you live in the US and you are in your car driving to work. Suddenly a central-american terrorist shows up holding a disposable rocket launcher and blows up your car. You wake up in the hospital late for work and without a car, meanwhile the terrorist wakes up in central america and gets a bounty for killing an american, which is more than enough money to buy another rocket launcher, plus he gets to keep whatever money was in the americans wallet. Is it the American's fault for driving a car instead of an APC (armored personnel carrier)?


Sounds good to me Smile

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